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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    If all you have is a degree it means little in the world of software, web, or mobile development. What they teach is rarely what you actually end up doing. Without some experience - intern, on your own, other small jobs, you're going to be hard-pressed to get going.

    I never went to school for programming, computer science, IT, any of it. I worked crappy odd jobs at 16 for Chicago Public Schools, got an $8-an-hour job converting a DOS application to Microsoft Access databases, and from there grew my career until I reached where I am today as a lead software engineer in charge of teams for our software.



    I don't think a Masters degree will change much. They're going to want to see examples of your style of work and your coding practices, and they can tell the difference between the rote education style and a personal style. Every job I've applied to in the last decade has required me to submit entire programs or write new ones on-the-fly to solve problems.

    Also, I'm surprised by his motivation speech. I love programming and software development. I have probably put as much work on my own time into my own projects (one of which got me my position where I am now 8 years ago) as I have for actual paid projects. It's a thrill to put something together and watch it come to life under your hands, whether it is a 3D model, animation, web site, mobile app, or desktop program. He might not be inspired to do work on his own time but that's him.
    the motivation part is my very own problem, not his. When there is a clear reward I work really hard. When the reward is not so visible or obscure, I tend to put off things. Having said that, a masters degree would be a clear goal. If someone told me. code this and you get 2000$ I would be highly motivated.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    If someone told me. code this and you get 2000$ I would be highly motivated.
    Depends on what "this" was and how long I thought it would take...
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    If someone told me. code this and you get 2000$ I would be highly motivated.
    I think you are going to have a tough time if this is your real attitude towards programming. I have been a software developer (and now the lead architect of a company I co-own) for almost 20 years. I remember being in high school programming with my friends in C++. We were trying to build a game (duh) and it was all we ever talked about. We were not good but that didn't stop us. We weren't trying to make a game to sell, we just wanted to make a game. Programming is about being able to create things - the money you gain is just an aside. At least that is how I feel about it.

    I have worked with many programmers who were just in it for the money. They would show up at work on time and leave on time. If they were in the middle of a problem and it was time to go home, then they just stopped working and left. I don't understand that attitude. I have missed many nights of sleep because of a bug I encountered that I just had to find and fix. Or because I made a breakthrough on a problem and I wanted to run with it for a few hours while it was fresh in my mind. I understand people have families and sometimes your time is constrained (I have a 1-year old now myself so I get it) but most of these people had no such restraints. They just didn't care. Programming was just a paycheck, and their craft invariably suffered for it. I'm sure there are brilliant programmers out there who don't really like to program, but I've never met one.

    If money is your motivation, I suggest finding another career. Find something you actually enjoy doing. If you do stick with this plan then for the love of god never say in an interview that money is your motivation. I have hired quite a few people in my career, it is pretty easy to pinpoint people who program for a living VS people who program as a passion. Guess which ones get hired. Learn to love it or learn to fake it.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    the motivation part is my very own problem, not his. When there is a clear reward I work really hard. When the reward is not so visible or obscure, I tend to put off things. Having said that, a masters degree would be a clear goal. If someone told me. code this and you get 2000$ I would be highly motivated.
    There are tons of development contests and little projects you can snap up from a lot of places if you want to make a quick buck and get some experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryk View Post
    I think you are going to have a tough time if this is your real attitude towards programming. I have been a software developer (and now the lead architect of a company I co-own) for almost 20 years. I remember being in high school programming with my friends in C++. We were trying to build a game (duh) and it was all we ever talked about. We were not good but that didn't stop us. We weren't trying to make a game to sell, we just wanted to make a game. Programming is about being able to create things - the money you gain is just an aside. At least that is how I feel about it.
    We're just the same. Maybe I've never quite finished or sold any of the games or software I've made on my own time but hey, I did it because I love to do it. I love to stretch my skills and learn something new.

  5. #25
    I've been a developer for 11 years now, interviewing candidates for 7, and making hiring decisions for 5.

    Your friend is partially right, but context matters here. Side projects certainly go a long way because they act as a resume when you don't have much experience. At some point that becomes far less important, but that too depends on who you're interviewing with.

    What sort of development do you want to do? Are you looking for a web dev position at a smaller company? Often times they will like to see e.g. a git hub repo. Interviewing with NASA? They likely don't care. Like any industry, it's nuanced, and different sectors have different cultures. That said, as a junior dev you do need a way to distinguish yourself from your competition.

    A masters isn't likely to help very much. Again, depends on what you want to build, but most of us don't put much stock into higher level CS degrees. I have worked with and hired enough master's and PhD level people to know that there is absolutely no correlation between those degrees and their ability to be productive engineers. There are very good self taught people and very bad yokels with PhD's. Time spent on a Master's in CS is not time spent learning how to be an engineer, it's time spent learning theory that you will likely never use if you're going to spend the next 20 years writing CRUD apps.

    You're also limited by the fact that most employers are looking to fill a gap now, and they usually need people with low ramp up time. You're targeting junior level positions, which are more scarce. I'm also surprised by the fact that you consider using pointers to be a more advanced subject. Stuff like that makes me question the quality of your education. If you spent the bulk of your time writing trivial stuff in java then I have no way to judge your potential unless you are very impressive in person.

    I wouldn't rush off back to college. I *would* start building things in your spare time with are relevant within the field you want to pursue. While you're doing that, go on interviews. If you get a job, great. If you don't, push them for feedback as to why you were rejected so that you can shore up your weaknesses.

    Edit: Sorry, read the OP too fast and missed that you want to be a game dev. Well, unfortunately about a million other kids your age want the same thing, so you have a lot of competition. Honestly, if you're not writing games in your spare time and you don't understand pointers you're not cut out for that sort of job yet.

    I'd also add that game dev isn't everything it's cracked up to be. Long hours and traditionally lower than median pay due to a large candidate pool to draw from. To me, you come off like someone who likes the idea of the job, but hasn't put in the time to learn what it really takes to get there.
    Last edited by Biged781; 2016-10-22 at 05:02 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelanor View Post
    As for OP, one thing you can do it upload your school projects to GitHub to show potential employers what you've done while in school.
    Note that potential employers might look at GitHub (etc) - regardless of whether you include the projects in your CV or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelanor View Post
    Have you taken any interesting courses during your time? Anything like Machine Learning, AI, Natural Language Processing, Advanced Operating Systems course, anything that will have made you do some kind of project, upload that.
    But try to stay focused. If you have done both machine learning and advanced operating systems it seems strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelanor View Post
    Employers can't only go on your word and a piece of paper. They want to see actual results, actual code you've written.
    Preferably both.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    A masters isn't likely to help very much. Again, depends on what you want to build, but most of us don't put much stock into higher level CS degrees. I have worked with and hired enough master's and PhD level people to know that there is absolutely no correlation between those degrees and their ability to be productive engineers.
    I would say there is some correlation, but it is quite weak and depends on the work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    There are very good self taught people and very bad yokels with PhD's. Time spent on a Master's in CS is not time spent learning how to be an engineer, it's time spent learning theory that you will likely never use if you're going to spend the next 20 years writing CRUD apps.
    True. But there are positions for people who don't write such apps - where you actually need a bit more formal education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    You're also limited by the fact that most employers are looking to fill a gap now, and they usually need people with low ramp up time. You're targeting junior level positions, which are more scarce. I'm also surprised by the fact that you consider using pointers to be a more advanced subject. Stuff like that makes me question the quality of your education. If you spent the bulk of your time writing trivial stuff in java then I have no way to judge your potential unless you are very impressive in person.
    I agree with this - employers don't like long ramp-up-time, regardless of the developer position.
    And pointers isn't an advanced subject in my opinion - but on the other hand pointers should normally be avoided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    I'd also add that game dev isn't everything it's cracked up to be. Long hours and traditionally lower than median pay due to a large candidate pool to draw from. To me, you come off like someone who likes the idea of the job, but hasn't put in the time to learn what it really takes to get there.
    I guess it doesn't help that many schools are adding game-dev-programs to attract students; but I have no experience with that myself.

  7. #27
    Omg. Go Master's Degree, diplomas are nowadays the "key" for the entrance door. We for example don't EVER think to take less than +5 because of that elitism with "diplomas". Don't saying it's great, I'm saying employeer now hire +5 for everything because that everythings get complexe and more complexe by the years. Now, we seek very good developers and very good developers are looked into the +5 studes ones even if it's a case to miss some good talents in the lower tier.
    Mind you only the best / gifted ones climb the career of the developer path (lead / architecture) though. Many (this is not the case for everyone of course) who are not good strive toward the team lead (not technical) for agile projects or V-cycle chief project.

    But get that fu**ing diploma and work hard during it. In my experience, you'll get better not doing personal project (it helps) but selling yourself with a VERY good communication attitude AND computer knowledge. Be an encyclopedia of technology it will seduce many.
    Last edited by Deix-EU; 2016-10-22 at 05:29 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    I've been a developer for 11 years now, interviewing candidates for 7, and making hiring decisions for 5.

    Your friend is partially right, but context matters here. Side projects certainly go a long way because they act as a resume when you don't have much experience. At some point that becomes far less important, but that too depends on who you're interviewing with.

    What sort of development do you want to do? Are you looking for a web dev position at a smaller company? Often times they will like to see e.g. a git hub repo. Interviewing with NASA? They likely don't care. Like any industry, it's nuanced, and different sectors have different cultures. That said, as a junior dev you do need a way to distinguish yourself from your competition.

    A masters isn't likely to help very much. Again, depends on what you want to build, but most of us don't put much stock into higher level CS degrees. I have worked with and hired enough master's and PhD level people to know that there is absolutely no correlation between those degrees and their ability to be productive engineers. There are very good self taught people and very bad yokels with PhD's. Time spent on a Master's in CS is not time spent learning how to be an engineer, it's time spent learning theory that you will likely never use if you're going to spend the next 20 years writing CRUD apps.

    You're also limited by the fact that most employers are looking to fill a gap now, and they usually need people with low ramp up time. You're targeting junior level positions, which are more scarce. I'm also surprised by the fact that you consider using pointers to be a more advanced subject. Stuff like that makes me question the quality of your education. If you spent the bulk of your time writing trivial stuff in java then I have no way to judge your potential unless you are very impressive in person.

    I wouldn't rush off back to college. I *would* start building things in your spare time with are relevant within the field you want to pursue. While you're doing that, go on interviews. If you get a job, great. If you don't, push them for feedback as to why you were rejected so that you can shore up your weaknesses.

    Edit: Sorry, read the OP too fast and missed that you want to be a game dev. Well, unfortunately about a million other kids your age want the same thing, so you have a lot of competition. Honestly, if you're not writing games in your spare time and you don't understand pointers you're not cut out for that sort of job yet.

    I'd also add that game dev isn't everything it's cracked up to be. Long hours and traditionally lower than median pay due to a large candidate pool to draw from. To me, you come off like someone who likes the idea of the job, but hasn't put in the time to learn what it really takes to get there.
    Thanks for the valuable input.

    Regarding game dev, and after reading various feedback it looks a lot less attractive now.

    Regarding pointers, I don't know if its any different, it's not like I don't understand them, I do. The concern is that they don't flow natural. I have to think every time I use a pointer. Perhaps having to think about them, is your point exactly that I don't understand them. Is that what you mean?

    And you are correct about liking the idea of the job, having goals, but putting it off, being disoriented and jaded about it. Perhaps if I had a walkthrough I would work A LOT harder. I am really the type of guy, who can put TONS and A LOT of effort, if there is orientation. Any suggestion regarding this very particular problem?

  9. #29
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    Did you not do any large projects for your undergrad? We wrote a compiler, and I used that in my CV. Given, I also had internship work as well as TA experience.

    I didn't have (and still don't have) github or any other OSS code to give away.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Annoying View Post
    Did you not do any large projects for your undergrad? We wrote a compiler, and I used that in my CV. Given, I also had internship work as well as TA experience.

    I didn't have (and still don't have) github or any other OSS code to give away.
    sadly not. Our biggest project was to write a desktop application about an imaginary radio station, that added artists, songs, tracks, albums etc in a database with the options to add edit delete those and do queries with them.

  11. #31
    I'm a former computer scientist with a company that built a suite to control large scale physical security, having left after realizing that engineering is a bit too calm and focused for me (just wasn't the lifestyle for me). I was hired right out of a co-op to work for their hardware integration team. That happens a lot, and I'd see if your school has any internship programs, because if you're good enough to do something productive (I basically became the local 'expert' on a certain module that hadn't been touched by anyone in over a decade), they'll want you to stay. Another way they hire new people is through freelancing coding projects that we put up on top coder. If you can do some productive work through them, some companies might take notice (I know ours did and sometimes hire people).

  12. #32
    SE undergrad, CE masters here. He's right, I agree. As for pointers, it comes naturally as you code in a language that has pointers. If you need to "think" to get them right, that either means you haven't practiced (i.e., writing code) enough or you didn't understand the concept of pointers properly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoying View Post
    Did you not do any large projects for your undergrad? We wrote a compiler, and I used that in my CV. Given, I also had internship work as well as TA experience.

    I didn't have (and still don't have) github or any other OSS code to give away.
    Compiler for which language?

    --

    OP, I don't want to depress you but IF

    - you are not comfortable with pointers
    - didn't implement medium sized (what's being called as "big" in this thread) projects
    - didn't participated in open source projects

    that highly likely means you didn't study hard enough, which means you didn't get the experience you need, which means you're not that good programmer as of yet. I sincerely suggest you to get involved in an open source project.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-10-22 at 06:05 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    SE undergrad, CE masters here. He's right, I agree. As for pointers, it comes naturally as you code in a language that has pointers. If you need to "think" to get them right, that either means you haven't practice (i.e., writing code) enough or you didn't understand the concept of pointers properly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Compiler for which language?
    Hehe, I remember I had to build some horrible compiler for a ridiculous language. It was like a poorly thought out typed Scheme.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    SE undergrad, CE masters here. He's right, I agree. As for pointers, it comes naturally as you code in a language that has pointers. If you need to "think" to get them right, that either means you haven't practiced (i.e., writing code) enough or you didn't understand the concept of pointers properly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Compiler for which language?

    --

    OP, I don't want to depress you but IF

    - you are not comfortable with pointers
    - didn't implement medium sized (what's being called as "big" in this thread) projects
    - didn't participated in open source projects

    that highly likely means you didn't study hard enough, which means you didn't get the experience you need, which means you're not that good programmer as of yet. I sincerely suggest you to get involved in an open source project.
    thanks a lot again. I do value everyone's input.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    We're just the same. Maybe I've never quite finished or sold any of the games or software I've made on my own time but hey, I did it because I love to do it. I love to stretch my skills and learn something new.
    You aren't a proper programmer if you finish your personal projects

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I would say there is some correlation, but it is quite weak and depends on the work.
    Yeah, I don't know, I haven't see one in my experience so far. Anecdotal of course, but I don't think we have hard data on the subject, so who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    True. But there are positions for people who don't write such apps - where you actually need a bit more formal education.
    Sure, and I tried to be careful to caveat that in my original post. For example, I work in biotech designing imaging systems, backend systems to support them, and associated image analysis routines. When we hire pure computer vision people they are almost universally PhD's. It's a narrow, but very deep specialization and it takes years of research to become competent. Academia is where that research typically happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak
    Thanks for the valuable input.

    Regarding game dev, and after reading various feedback it looks a lot less attractive now.

    Regarding pointers, I don't know if its any different, it's not like I don't understand them, I do. The concern is that they don't flow natural. I have to think every time I use a pointer. Perhaps having to think about them, is your point exactly that I don't understand them. Is that what you mean?

    And you are correct about liking the idea of the job, having goals, but putting it off, being disoriented and jaded about it. Perhaps if I had a walkthrough I would work A LOT harder. I am really the type of guy, who can put TONS and A LOT of effort, if there is orientation. Any suggestion regarding this very particular problem?
    Pointers are an interesting subject to me because they are basic, not overly difficult to understand, but many devs don't have a clue and seemingly can't grasp the concept. People who 'get' pointers typically 'get' how a computer works at a more fundamental level. They have implemented lower level constructs, debugged harder problems, and have lived closer to the guts of their machine. Has little to do with pointers themselves, but spending a lot of time in e.g. C will teach you things that e.g. Java will not.

    Having to think is not a problem. Joel Spolsky has a good write up on this which says it better than I can here: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...vaschools.html

    As for a 'walkthrough' for starting your career, well... no, not really. This is the real world where you need to make things happen for yourself. No one else really cares. My advice would remain the same; pursue a job while spending your free time building things relevant to your interests. Nothing will bring you up to speed faster than building stuff, and it will serve as a resume soon enough. No one can walk you through this, you have to set your own goals.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryk View Post
    I think you are going to have a tough time if this is your real attitude towards programming. I have been a software developer (and now the lead architect of a company I co-own) for almost 20 years. I remember being in high school programming with my friends in C++. We were trying to build a game (duh) and it was all we ever talked about. We were not good but that didn't stop us. We weren't trying to make a game to sell, we just wanted to make a game. Programming is about being able to create things - the money you gain is just an aside. At least that is how I feel about it.

    I have worked with many programmers who were just in it for the money. They would show up at work on time and leave on time. If they were in the middle of a problem and it was time to go home, then they just stopped working and left. I don't understand that attitude. I have missed many nights of sleep because of a bug I encountered that I just had to find and fix. Or because I made a breakthrough on a problem and I wanted to run with it for a few hours while it was fresh in my mind. I understand people have families and sometimes your time is constrained (I have a 1-year old now myself so I get it) but most of these people had no such restraints. They just didn't care. Programming was just a paycheck, and their craft invariably suffered for it. I'm sure there are brilliant programmers out there who don't really like to program, but I've never met one.

    If money is your motivation, I suggest finding another career. Find something you actually enjoy doing. If you do stick with this plan then for the love of god never say in an interview that money is your motivation. I have hired quite a few people in my career, it is pretty easy to pinpoint people who program for a living VS people who program as a passion. Guess which ones get hired. Learn to love it or learn to fake it.
    I think you misunderstood me.

    I have also missed many nights of sleep because of a bug I encountered that I just had to find and fix. Or because I made a breakthrough on a problem and I wanted to run with it for a few hours while it was fresh in my mind.

    and
    They just didn't care. Programming was just a paycheck, and their craft invariably suffered for it. I'm sure there are brilliant programmers out there who don't really like to program, but I've never met one.
    that's not how I feel

    I've also felt the joy and the excitement of solving problems, being creative etc.

    The context about the lack of motivation was that, I often will write a program that will achieve some satisfactory functionality within my own needs. (For example I once did a web scrapper to get data from the internet, and actually work with those data). It's the basic and just about what is needed functionality that is exciting. I found that if I can write a program that solves my problem in say 30 hours. But I can't possibly sell that or present it. it takes much much much more hours (100? 200?)to actually polish it, attend to any detail, add a satisfactory and professional user interface, test it, analyse what different users might want different etc

    The innovation part is exciting and I don't want monetary rewards for it.

    The attending to every little detail and exception is the tedious thing, that I need to get payed for to motivate myself.

    Am I the odd sheep on this one?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    Yeah, I don't know, I haven't see one in my experience so far. Anecdotal of course, but I don't think we have hard data on the subject, so who knows.



    Sure, and I tried to be careful to caveat that in my original post. For example, I work in biotech designing imaging systems, backend systems to support them, and associated image analysis routines. When we hire pure computer vision people they are almost universally PhD's. It's a narrow, but very deep specialization and it takes years of research to become competent. Academia is where that research typically happens.



    Pointers are an interesting subject to me because they are basic, not overly difficult to understand, but many devs don't have a clue and seemingly can't grasp the concept. People who 'get' pointers typically 'get' how a computer works at a more fundamental level. They have implemented lower level constructs, debugged harder problems, and have lived closer to the guts of their machine. Has little to do with pointers themselves, but spending a lot of time in e.g. C will teach you things that e.g. Java will not.

    Having to think is not a problem. Joel Spolsky has a good write up on this which says it better than I can here: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...vaschools.html

    As for a 'walkthrough' for starting your career, well... no, not really. This is the real world where you need to make things happen for yourself. No one else really cares. My advice would remain the same; pursue a job while spending your free time building things relevant to your interests. Nothing will bring you up to speed faster than building stuff, and it will serve as a resume soon enough. No one can walk you through this, you have to set your own goals.
    Regarding pointers and recursion (algorithms), I do totally understand them, but not in seconds as the author demands in his article. I think what happens is not that I am dumb, but I haven't practiced them long enough. The question remains, does the industry demands me to grasp them in seconds, or does it allow me to "think" slightly about them? The author says many industries don't care, but plenty do.
    Last edited by Kreeshak; 2016-10-22 at 06:34 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by llandrywyn View Post
    If all you have is a degree, you are not special.
    THIS^ - every student should already know you get nothing from spending four years in school. You learned some of the buzz words and got to play with the languages, but "you know nothing Jon Snow!" You get in the game by working outside of school. Special projects the CS department has, internship, volunteer work, etc. All that degree says is that you did not drop out of school.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I just finished a 4 years university degree in Computer Science and I was over the moon.

    I was having a conversation with a "friend" who works in one of the biggest video games companies in the industry.

    He said unless I had significant self initiated coding projects to show for, companies would hardly reply to my CVs.
    He said I need 1 year worth of coding projects to show for, to be considered for a junior position.

    He said, because it is hard to find motivation to do the above, a master's degree would be really helpful because the expenses partially drives you as you don't want to waste your money, and also there is a project included in the course, which companies value highly.

    He also said, that some concepts for example like pointers, who I need to *think* to get them right, I need to know them as naturally as multiplications tables. That the environment is pressuring and I don't have the luxury to look my notes for something. Either I know it or I don't.

    What is your feedback regarding all of the above?
    Higher degree = higher pay
    Higher degree = more employable

    It seems pretty self explanatory to me. /shrug

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    He said unless I had significant self initiated coding projects to show for, companies would hardly reply to my CVs.
    He said I need 1 year worth of coding projects to show for, to be considered for a junior position.
    In the gaming industry, where you friend works, this is more often the case than not. I don't have a lot of experience in the modern gaming industry but the handful of friends I do have working in that sector all had a project portfolio set up when interviewing.
    Outside the gaming industry, where I work, I've hired plenty of programmers that presented no project or work examples during the interview process. A couple questions during a face to face will get me what I want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    He said, because it is hard to find motivation to do the above, a master's degree would be really helpful because the expenses partially drives you as you don't want to waste your money, and also there is a project included in the course, which companies value highly.
    Whats motivational for one is not motivational for another. This is something YOU definitely need to figure out for yourself. Are you motivated to go to grad school? If so, are you more motivated to go to grad school than you are to find a job? Figure those basic questions out first before you move on. From this post it sounds like you don't have a clear vision for yourself at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    He also said, that some concepts for example like pointers, who I need to *think* to get them right, I need to know them as naturally as multiplications tables. That the environment is pressuring and I don't have the luxury to look my notes for something. Either I know it or I don't.
    You should know the concepts appropriate to the job your are interviewing for. Is the job for working on device drivers? Then you better know assembly like the back of your hand. Are you going to be working c/c++ code? Then yeah, you better have pointers and OOP down pat. etc etc etc. This really should be a no brainer : if you are applying for a job you should have the knowledge necessary to do the job.

    Based on several of your follow up posts:
    To be honest, you sound like a normal young adult: you haven't quite figured out what you want to do or where you want to do it. At some point you'll have to figure that out and once you do, the rest will become significantly easier to plan out. A nice thing for you, the degree gives you extra options.

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