[EU] Boosting Scam

[Trumpcat]

this might be wrong by your shitty morals, but not by mine. how's that?

It is quite unfortunate that you would call fairness and decency shitty morals. Thankfully there are guilds who stand firm on those and their members don't have to deal with the various moralists like you out there.

[Crysake]

It is quite unfortunate that you would call fairness and decency shitty morals. Thankfully there are guilds who stand firm on those and their members don't have to deal with the various moralists like you out there.

this was not a guild run but a pug run. were that a guild run where you boost someone and only officers are getting paid it'd be completely understandable to be somewhat annoyed and bring it up. that logic does not apply to a bunch of random people doing some content.

[Deleted]

Its the same 'morals' of 10 volunteers at Oxfam working hard as fuck all day for nothing only to find out that the person that showed up in the morning, said Hi with a coffee in their hands then said "right i'm off" and left for the rest of the day is the only paid member of the group.

It's not the same at all.
For one the coffee guy in this case has not left for the rest of the day. Raidleading isn't just having a fancy crown next to ones name after all.
And the 10 volunteers still got paid; with bosskill counts, possible Ploot, possible bonusloot, possible legendaries; which is what they wanted in the 1st place.

[Trumpcat]

It's not the same at all.
For one the coffee guy in this case has not left for the rest of the day. Raidleading isn't just having a fancy crown next to ones name after all.
And the 10 volunteers still got paid; with bosskill counts, possible Ploot, possible bonusloot, possible legendaries; which is what they wanted in the 1st place.

Misleading and then kicking for questioning it is really the problem here. Not exactly that some got paid, others didn't. It was a boost run, but it was advertised as a high end run and the people joining came for that. Those people were mislead on purpose. They may be fine with it, they may not be. Either way tricking people is wrong. And then kicking them when they question it just fortifies the wrongness.

[Lochton]

Premade Group Finder got introduced 6.0.2 not even two years and premade group finder was nowhere near as popular as it is now. And I can agree to a setup. Like in WotlK where you would say X-item is locked sure no problem but if you fake your setup to get experienced ppl and take advantage out of them how are you ok with this behavior?

I didn't say I was okay with it. I am just stating that it is an action that I've seen done since Ulduar.

[Lochton]

If they are running the raid in any manner different than what is advertised via the group finder, then it is absolutely a scam. Not likely against the ToS, but they are in fact scamming the higher geared pugs who are signing up for the group based on the false advertisement that only players with similar gear and/or experience will be invited.

Yes people have done similar things since forever, either running groups with super high requirements when they themselves don't meet those requirements. But that's why you can't list an ilvl requirement in the group finder that exceeds you own ilvl. There are ways around that, but it's a limitation put in for a reason, to give players a tool to help them easily see if the person running the group meets the requirements they are demanding. I for one won't apply to groups who state an ilvl requirement in the description that doesn't have one actually selected via the group finder options.

But since such checks don't work for groups that the OP is describing, and since the person running the group is making a profit off those groups by selling spots that they intentionally don't inform pugs about, it is possible that Blizzard would not deem it acceptable behavior. The main, and likely only, reason they wouldn't actually ban it is because there is no reasonable way for it to be reported. With few exceptions, Blizzard only accepts automatic reporting, something that doesn't require a detailed explanation via a ticket. Beyond hacking, and less obvious names that violate the ToS, the only reporting Blizzard takes action on is stuff that can be quickly determined via things like chat logs.

While it's possible for transactions such as the OP is describing to be caught via logs, it's too easily avoided. Every pug that had underperforming members would get reported as a scam, and even just checking logs would require far too much manpower to catch anyone. But that doesn't mean Blizzard would be OK with the practice. And if enough people report it as a problem, they may speak out against it to discourage it.

In the end, it isn't a scam. You aren't losing out, and they sneak in some low levels to earn some gold. In the end, it is THEIR group. Sorry, that is the lock down of most group discussions. If you disagree, find a different group. Life is like that in World of Warcraft, has been so for a long time. This isn't a new topic, and I have yet not seen Blizzard handle these at all.

And you do still see people post groups was HIGH ilvl demands, when the actual leader is quite lower ilvl than the demand.

- - - Updated - - -

Has been around since OpenRaid Siege of Orgrimmar.

Me: "Invite if no boost."

RL Invites. Guy with blues in the Raid - kek.

Oh god, reminds me so much of pugging SoO HC.

"Yes, time for loot!"

*unprepared, unenchanted, unwilling player gets given all the loot he can use*

"G-goodbye trinket.. "

*instant leave*

[Seranthor]

God damn the amount of tears over this is greatly amusing. Most of you wouldnt last a week in eve online if you cant stomache this in wow.

I did a simalar thing in wrath. I needed that toc trinket from valks, so hosted a 25toc run every week, top 5 dps or heals got to roll on thier corisponding trinkets. Since the a bunch of us used that raid to farm for trinkets on our mains that never dropped in reg raids its sort of the same.

I can imagine the first time someone from CODE blew apart their ship.

[Darsithis]

You would rather pick apart semantics and ACT(key word here) like you are idiotic and did not get the point behind the reference. Forgive me for making a metaphor with the assumption that common sense took place here. Que pesada eres

since you need me to break it down Barney-style, my point was that just because it is not technically against the ToS it is okay for groups to do this because you can 'find another group'. Do we need Blizzard to hold our hand and dot every i and cross every t for what is and is not morally wrong? Are you honestly sitting there in your little computer chair saying to yourself that what those guys did was not morally wrong, using other geared people to gain more gold? That was the entire point. idgaf about jurisdiction laws or anything else, stick to the argument and stop trying to side track technicalities like you are Data from Star Trek or something sheesh.

It's funny how defensive and insulting people can get when someone challenges them, as if the written word is an actual physical attack.

I don't consider what they did to be morally wrong. You do. Your comparison to murder is still crap.

[Deleted]

It's funny how defensive and insulting people can get when someone challenges them, as if the written word is an actual physical attack.

Welcome to the internet. This is actually expected behavior.

[Deleted]

I don't consider what they did to be morally wrong. You do. Your comparison to murder is still crap.

I really do think the comparison was not with murder, but with impunity, the fact that a TOS decides if that behaviour is or not banable and therefore prosecuted by blizzard, does not change the fact that for some of us it is morally wrong.
I do understand that you do not find what the OP describes as something morally wrong, but you justified that thought with the fact that the TOS does not forbid it, and the guy that used the murder example was just merely saying that, that was not enough to consider it morally right, something i do agree with him.

[Darsithis]

I really do think the comparison was not with murder, but with impunity, the fact that a TOS decides if that behaviour is or not banable and therefore prosecuted by blizzard, does not change the fact that for some of us it is morally wrong.
I do understand that you do not find what the OP describes as something morally wrong, but you justified that thought with the fact that the TOS does not forbid it, and the guy that used the murder example was just merely saying that, that was not enough to consider it morally right, something i do agree with him.

That is a point of view I hadn't considered, though I think he could have found a more common comparison.

[Arcrin]

So, would you, and or others who do this be considered geniuses, or you/they be considered more so a leech who profits from others for their own gain?

Maybe both?

we would be considered bussniesmen, we offer gear and content by spending time creating the grp and in return we gain gold. shady bussniesmen who doesnt pay tax maybe.

[pmkaboo]

so, are the people defending this scam the same people who run it in game, or are you just completely out of your frikin mind?

[Banquetto]

In the end, it isn't a scam. You aren't losing out, and they sneak in some low levels to earn some gold.

Given that the OP said they wiped on a boss which they should not have wiped on if the group was, as advertised, full of geared and experienced people, it's not correct to say "you aren't losing out".

[Seranthor]

so, are the people defending this scam the same people who run it in game, or are you just completely out of your frikin mind?

Not defending, actually not caring about it either. That said, if folks are so spastically afraid of it happening to them then there is an addon that will tell you the ilevel of everyone in your group/raid... get it, use it... if you see something hinky, then leave. Problem solved.

[pmkaboo]

Not defending, actually not caring about it either. That said, if folks are so spastically afraid of it happening to them then there is an addon that will tell you the ilevel of everyone in your group/raid... get it, use it... if you see something hinky, then leave. Problem solved.

problem avoided, not solved... and you dont need to care at all, i dont either, i run my own pugs so this doesnt affect me in any way, but still it baffles me how can people who arent part of this dismissing it so easily.

[Seranthor]

problem avoided, not solved... and you dont need to care at all, i dont either, i run my own pugs so this doesnt affect me in any way, but still it baffles me how can people who arent part of this dismissing it so easily.

Okay, what is your solution to the problem?

[Heladys]

That is a point of view I hadn't considered, though I think he could have found a more common comparison.

I'm not gonna say his argumentation was strong at all, but you did sperge out pretty hard there.

[Lochton]

Given that the OP said they wiped on a boss which they should not have wiped on if the group was, as advertised, full of geared and experienced people, it's not correct to say "you aren't losing out".

You can put it as you wish, but in the end, the final answer would always be, 'their group'. And Blizzard, as I know off, hasn't done anything to that. Then again, even some people claiming to be geared, or experienced, or both have failed on things that should be easy to others.

[Aleksej89]

Big difference between "scum" and "scam".

Such behavior is scummy, but it is not a scam.

Even if a group is clearly advocated as "good geared" while it is in fact not, it is just a lie and not a scam.