The State og Warriors

[Shaderas]

im talking about the over all history of wow more or less after then normalized hit points and Armour types for the most part.remember back at the start and in BC when warriors had the biggest health pools?we need more becasue we could not heal outside of blood crazy,warriors could not vanish and heal up,but rogues could. so rogues had less hit-points and weaker Armour but then normalization gave all other classes what warrior had but never took the tools "rogues/rets,dks, had to being with away.this is how you end up with bad pvp/bad classes like you see in todays games.

rogues "and other classes" should have never had the same hitpoints as a warrior while retailing all the tools they had before. think if arms had lay on hands or a vanish,hmmm yeah.....

cloth is supposed to be soft leather is supposed to be weak compared to plate - people never say o man that plate Armour that arms warrior has on in pvp will sure keep him alive.

like i said they changed to much over the years

Yeah, I remember back in Vanilla.. Warriors were one of the classes I did NOT want to face. Because of Plate armor did seem to make a difference. Also Hunters felt like a stronger counter to Rogues back then too. And Warlocks seemed to suck for almost everyone >.<

[Orangetai420]

This is just a dumb point brought up every expac and it's been wrong since Cata.

Blizzard does tuning pass every few weeks, and major tuning passes with every raid tier. This ensures that "scaling" doesn't really matter anymore. If a particular melee "scaled" well in tier 2 for example, they get nerfed right before tier 3 and everyone else gets buffed -- the impact of scaling is so massively reduced compared to vanilla - wrath because of constant patches that normalize damage.

For example, assassination isn't a spec that scales spectacularly, it never really has but blizzard always buffs the shit out of it to make sure it's near the top of the damage charts every raid tier.

There are of course exceptions, but very few. The one that comes to mind are Frost DK's and killing machine which has historically kept them low because it leads to such abysmal scaling compared to every other spec. However, as we've just seen, they have poor damage/scaling -- boom 7.1 gave them a 15-18% raw damage buff lmao. "Scaling" is just so overused now and so negligible because of frequent tuning.

You know what else is pretty dumb? Talking about pve balance in the pvp forum. Maybe you should check where you are posting first.

[Anbokr]

You know what else is pretty dumb? Talking about pve balance in the pvp forum. Maybe you should check where you are posting first.

Who knew that PvE tuning affects PvP and that they can actively tune PvP in the same manner! Scaling matters even less in PvP since your weapon ilevel is essentially static and tuning passes are done every week.

[meathead]

Yeah, I remember back in Vanilla.. Warriors were one of the classes I did NOT want to face. Because of Plate armor did seem to make a difference. Also Hunters felt like a stronger counter to Rogues back then too. And Warlocks seemed to suck for almost everyone >.<

yeah classes and specs felt different becasue they were different and all filled different roles and brought different buffs. thats all missing now everything has been normalized and classes blended together so more so then others.

i remember back in BC my MS arms warrior was straight up beefy/tanky - it could take alot of damage and alot of that mig came from plate and the big health pools we had. i remember rogues would do anything they could not to stand toe to toe with an arms warrior- attacks always came from behind. rogues would hit and run -arms could take a beating and still be alive do to plate and big healthpools to actually fight a rogue back once all the open/cc wears off. then a MS warrior would rip threw the leather wearing rogue like butter with MS and OP. thats balance rogues strength opening burst/cc/surprise could be countered with arms big hit points and plate armour. now its all the same like coke and Pepsi "not really different" when it should be pepsi -moutian do and root beer =all different.

remember when wrath came out and rets and dks were running around as one man armies?rets did just as much if not more "it was more" damage then arms could do,had the same Armour,same hitpoints but could heal themselves.how would a spec like arms have a place when other specs do what you do only better and have self heals = no spot/useless.

wrath was a good X-PAC "2nd best after BC" but wrath is were the game started to get probelm's like i said above. some people liek to point out that "on live there are more specs in pvp then every before = better balance". but i like to point out that having more specs in pvp is only because there are more classes in game and that in no way does not = better balance,its the opposite really.

[Omaski]

Ret had 1

are you comparing the entire warrior CLASS to one spec of pally =ret?

sounds dumb right? along with ret you also have holy correct?now ask yourself is holy better for pvp then fury and prot?answer = 100% yes. is holy better then arms for pvp?= yes.is ret better then arms for pvp?hmmm maybe?

stop comparing 1 spec to an entire class becasue all warrior have is arms

Turbo cleave = holy pally -how can you sit here and say warrior had two top comps but ret only had 1.wtf dont you get the set up YOU NAMED is maned up with a holy pally.whats that tell you?you have at the very least another high end comp to play with along with what you said about rets.

pretty sad attempt at making your class look bad,bitching about warriors then naming a comp your class is part of lmfao.

OK let me break it down for you...the entire thread is about DPS for the sake of pvp arms/fury/prot/ret. they are all dps specs and therefore can be compared.

you are the one trying to compare apples to oranges, trying to compare dps specs to healing specs...transitioning from dps to healing is completely different than going from one dps spec to another. And if you read anything i had been saying previously, just because paladins can heal/tank doesnt mean we want/have to, so that pretty much makes your point null. you are complaining that your 1 out of 2 dps specs is shit while im saying the same thing for ret up until now...our "1" dps spec has not been top tier in rated pvp until now.

Warriors dont complain when they see joefernandez, smexxin, bahjeera, etc. always @ blizzcon or tearing it up in vids, but when they pendulum swings and someone else takes their place @ the top and now they are the bottom feeders everyone else is wrong and they have the right to bitch that they are broken because they arent @ the top

[PeachyKeen]

OK let me break it down for you...the entire thread is about DPS for the sake of pvp arms/fury/prot/ret

No, the entire thread is about the state of warrior CLASS in PvP.

Just because we don't have a healing spec, doesn't mean we are talking about dps specs. We are talking about our CLASS. Guess what, we are warriors and fury and prot are our specs as well, which we'd use gladly IF it was viable. We don't care that some pallies don't wanna go prot/holy - same is with many arms players. But you HAVE the choice and MANY of your class use it, we DONT have the choice AND our arms isn't even near the level of your best spec (that is holy) and isn't better than ret.

Im checking arena mate and I'm seeing 11.3% of pal contrary to 6.2% wars at 2k+ rating. Going up to 2.5k+ You're still at 11%, we're down to 4.2%. Screams to me pal is in great condition for pvp. Hell, 3.6% are rets and 4% are arms (from which many would gladly change to another spec if it was viable). So you see, even Ret is better than Arms. And holy, ah man, is at 6.8%. Never ever again compare specs but ignore whole classes, its just stupid. If a spec is the only spec we can play, it should be on the same level as your total class usage. If it isn't, the class is underpowered. Get that into your head once and for all. As it is, druids/shammies/monks/pallies are THE best classes for PvP with 2+ choices that are great.

Im not even gonna start on non-arena PvP gameplay, where warriors are just terrible.

[meathead]

OK let me break it down for you...the entire thread is about DPS for the sake of pvp arms/fury/prot/ret. they are all dps specs and therefore can be compared.

you are the one trying to compare apples to oranges, trying to compare dps specs to healing specs...transitioning from dps to healing is completely different than going from one dps spec to another. And if you read anything i had been saying previously, just because paladins can heal/tank doesnt mean we want/have to, so that pretty much makes your point null. you are complaining that your 1 out of 2 dps specs is shit while im saying the same thing for ret up until now...our "1" dps spec has not been top tier in rated pvp until now.

Warriors dont complain when they see joefernandez, smexxin, bahjeera, etc. always @ blizzcon or tearing it up in vids, but when they pendulum swings and someone else takes their place @ the top and now they are the bottom feeders everyone else is wrong and they have the right to bitch that they are broken because they arent @ the top

you have to compare the entire class as a whole becasue thats what your have entier classes not just 1 spec.

to make it easy for you to understand you can say hey look at all the arms warriors over a giving rating "random #" of 2400 over the years, there are more arms players then ret. what you fail to understand/ want to admit the reason why you would see more arms players then ret is do to your other spec holy being played by huge #'s at high end area.you see how that wroks now? warriors have arms and arms only when pallys have 2 spec that are just as good or better.

pallys can pick and choose what spec they want warriors cant we have 1 arms and its been bad for a long time,you need a healer to keep you alive so you can play your toon. sad thing is we all know warriors sucks in bgs-solo- dules ect and here we are with warriors sucking in area as well, the one spot they are supposed to be good in they suck.

but but i want to dps -well tough shit -i want to heal so make me a warrior spec that gald viable in healing -see how dumb that sounds.

- - - Updated - - -

No, the entire thread is about the state of warrior CLASS in PvP.

Just because we don't have a healing spec, doesn't mean we are talking about dps specs. We are talking about our CLASS. Guess what, we are warriors and fury and prot are our specs as well, which we'd use gladly IF it was viable. We don't care that some pallies don't wanna go prot/holy - same is with many arms players. But you HAVE the choice and MANY of your class use it, we DONT have the choice AND our arms isn't even near the level of your best spec (that is holy) and isn't better than ret.

Im checking arena mate and I'm seeing 11.3% of pal contrary to 6.2% wars at 2k+ rating. Going up to 2.5k+ You're still at 11%, we're down to 4.2%. Screams to me pal is in great condition for pvp. Hell, 3.6% are rets and 4% are arms (from which many would gladly change to another spec if it was viable). So you see, even Ret is better than Arms. And holy, ah man, is at 6.8%. Never ever again compare specs but ignore whole classes, its just stupid. If a spec is the only spec we can play, it should be on the same level as your total class usage. If it isn't, the class is underpowered. Get that into your head once and for all. As it is, druids/shammies/monks/pallies are THE best classes for PvP with 2+ choices that are great.

Im not even gonna start on non-arena PvP gameplay, where warriors are just terrible.

stop it with your facts and #'s and common sense -everyone knows that pallys need to have prot glad viable like ret and holy are.maybe then arms and arms only could get a buff so our class is still 1/3 of what pallys can do.