[Resto] Stat weight calculations

[Deleted]

does any raid druid healers cast anything except maybe under 10 regrowths per boss fights? mastery worths 0 in raids

[ManyHeadedDruid]

I'm a little surprised at just how well Mastery scales, 2.18 to be equal to int? In high tank damage scenarios I have 6 running. In high group damage scenarios I have 4 running on everyone. I knew it was my best stat for mythic dungeons but according to these numbers I should be dropping my int gem for a mastery one

Well, 2.18 hot count was at a certain Intellect and Mastery but yes, generally speaking as your Intellect and Mastery increases with gear that number will not move much up or down. On the other hand 6 and 4 hots seems to be too high in my opinion in small groups. I will make a tool to check logs for hot stack count.
3 hot count can be achieved in small groups, however, and then Mastery>Intellect. 1.29 to be exact at that sample gear. But 200 int is still more than 150 mastery. If you are sure you can keep up 4 hots in high damage scenario (is it really possible in timed mythic+ run?) then yes, 150 Mastery gem beats 200 Intellect gem.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Edit: Well, the damned tooltips were lying to me. As another poster did mention, mastery does update rather than snapshot. I just hadn't checked to see if the tooltips were accurate.

[Drekor]

Well, 2.18 hot count was at a certain Intellect and Mastery but yes, generally speaking as your Intellect and Mastery increases with gear that number will not move much up or down. On the other hand 6 and 4 hots seems to be too high in my opinion in small groups. I will make a tool to check logs for hot stack count.
3 hot count can be achieved in small groups, however, and then Mastery>Intellect. 1.29 to be exact at that sample gear. But 200 int is still more than 150 mastery. If you are sure you can keep up 4 hots in high damage scenario (is it really possible in timed mythic+ run?) then yes, 150 Mastery gem beats 200 Intellect gem.

High group damage situations aren't actually that common but 2x Rejuv, Cultivation, and WG can be sustained for several minutes. If it's strictly high tank damage(much more common) then you have 2x Rejuv, Cultivation, Lifebloom, Regrowth and, CW(not 100% uptime). Flourish of course makes this substantially easier to sustain and the bracer legendary makes the tank one extremely easy along with flourish.

It is of course strictly for Mythic+ not raiding but yes it's relatively easy when the fights are short and you can drink frequently(or just chug potions between pulls).

[Alltat]

Assuming mana is infinite and time spent not casting was when healing wasn't needed is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. That's not how healing works. If I could spam the shit out of my spells every time healing was needed, I'd be playing completely differently.

You seem to be ignoring the context. Assume mana is infinite in the sense that the mana cost of a few more Rejuvenations over a fight won't matter. You shouldn't be that starved for mana this expansion/tier. If you're running out of mana on every boss fight, you need to work on your Innervate/Lifebloom/Clearcasting use. You should be able to fill most GCDs during a fight, even with generous Wild Growth usage.

[Torty]

You seem to be ignoring the context. Assume mana is infinite in the sense that the mana cost of a few more Rejuvenations over a fight won't matter. You shouldn't be that starved for mana this expansion/tier. If you're running out of mana on every boss fight, you need to work on your Innervate/Lifebloom/Clearcasting use. You should be able to fill most GCDs during a fight, even with generous Wild Growth usage.

Link a log of yourself filling up most of your GCDs.

[Thalur]

I just go for haste because Mastery snapshots the healing bonus rather than dynamically updating the HoTs you have up on targets. You wind up having to cast each spell twice after you've applied all your HotS for the first spells applied to actually benefit from Mastery, which makes it far more mana-consuming than haste. I can see Mastery for 5mans, where mana isn't an issue and pure throughput is what you need. You're just going to burn through your mana trying to benefit from Mastery in raiding, unless for some bizarre reason you're the tank healer in the raid instead of being focused on raid healing.

This is completely wrong, and rather easily testable. There is no snapshotting for anything, everything (including mastery) scales dynamically. So when you put up a second hot, the first one will heal more.

1) Put up rejuv on myself
Your Rejuvenation healed You 0 Nature. (28264 Overhealed)
2) Put up 2nd rejuv on myself
Your Rejuvenation (Germination) healed You 0 Nature. (32296 Overhealed)
Your Rejuvenation healed You 0 Nature. (32294 Overhealed)
3) Put up Lifebloom
Your Rejuvenation healed You 0 Nature. (36325 Overhealed)
Your Rejuvenation (Germination) healed You 0 Nature. (36236 Overhealed)

[Ihealthingz]

You seem to be ignoring the context. Assume mana is infinite in the sense that the mana cost of a few more Rejuvenations over a fight won't matter. You shouldn't be that starved for mana this expansion/tier. If you're running out of mana on every boss fight, you need to work on your Innervate/Lifebloom/Clearcasting use. You should be able to fill most GCDs during a fight, even with generous Wild Growth usage.

How much you can spam or use mana heavy heals completely depends on the fight length, which translates to the dps of your raid. This is why I quit healing after 8 years because they made us dependent on the performance of everyone else.

[theburned]

This is interesting, is it true, anyone tested it? This could be inserted into the equation.

And haste scaling is indeed the best (as in the equation) but its usefulness is limited as certain spells are not affected. I do not say haste is bad though. We need to think more about it

- - - Updated - - -



I agree.
This calculation is based on logs, these values have nothing to do with mana or maximum possible HPS. This is how i ended up with 60% of spells are affected by haste. The spreadsheet is another approach where you can decide what you want to do (for example go for high HPS). Here it is already decided what happened (the log tells) and if you repeat the encounter in a similar way then the best would be to increase your selected stats. Both approach can be useful. I think the spreadsheet is good for planning and this is good after the fight how to optimize/progress. Maybe.
Beside this: if you have high haste then you need to use such spells to not waste it.

Thanks for the feedback, guys, i really appreciate it!

I assume you dont include regrowth in spells that get boosted by haste? most if not all of our regrowths HPCT and amount of casts are highly affected by haste. You generally only cast regrowth due to OoC which also means its free healing (some of it will always be tied to living seed aswell.) So unless you are using a lot of non proc regrowths its fully affected by haste

[ManyHeadedDruid]

I assume you dont include regrowth in spells that get boosted by haste? most if not all of our regrowths HPCT and amount of casts are highly affected by haste. You generally only cast regrowth due to OoC which also means its free healing (some of it will always be tied to living seed aswell.) So unless you are using a lot of non proc regrowths its fully affected by haste

No i haven't. I only counted heals that are directly affected by haste (hots) and assumed that we would cast the same spells even if we had +100 Haste or Mastery or... I also assumed that heals can be amplified and will overheal the same (so if your Tranq overhealed 40% then a bigger Tranq would overheal same 40%).
These - while false - are not too far from the truth in my opinion if you are progressing/struggling with the content.
If you believe you could do more if you had higher haste then you need a non-log based approach. Someone linked a spreadsheet in this thread (which was made by Torty i think). That shows your potential much better.

Having said that I have to admit that my Haste calculation is rather weak and most likely underestimates its value.

And up to this point my Mastery calculation wasn't strong either but I made a tool to check my HOT count! In my last mythic+ run i had 2.9 average hot count (weighted by healing) and 3.53 on tank. I strongly think Mastery is better than Intellect in mythic+.

http://proudguild.eu/resto-stats/

If you try it out (plain Javascript, doesn't upload the logs anywhere) then you can post your Ms (weighted average hot count) here so we can see how many hots you keep up! If you have advanced logging enabled in game then it will calculate your Mastery stat weight too as the log contains your Intellect and Mastery.

[theburned]

No i haven't. I only counted heals that are directly affected by haste (hots) and assumed that we would cast the same spells even if we had +100 Haste or Mastery or... I also assumed that heals can be amplified and will overheal the same (so if your Tranq overhealed 40% then a bigger Tranq would overheal same 40%).
These - while false - are not too far from the truth in my opinion if you are progressing/struggling with the content.
If you believe you could do more if you had higher haste then you need a non-log based approach. Someone linked a spreadsheet in this thread (which was made by Torty i think). That shows your potential much better.

Having said that I have to admit that my Haste calculation is rather weak and most likely underestimates its value.

And up to this point my Mastery calculation wasn't strong either but I made a tool to check my HOT count! In my last mythic+ run i had 2.9 average hot count (weighted by healing) and 3.53 on tank. I strongly think Mastery is better than Intellect in mythic+.

http://proudguild.eu/resto-stats/

If you try it out (plain Javascript, doesn't upload the logs anywhere) then you can post your Ms (weighted average hot count) here so we can see how many hots you keep up! If you have advanced logging enabled in game then it will calculate your Mastery stat weight too as the log contains your Intellect and Mastery.

Dont get me wrong, I dont believe haste is stronger than other stats when it comes to pure throughput, but I would much rather put it at 80-85% of the stat value rather than 60%, it is fair to say 60-70% if you are assuming 25-30% of your healing is from tranq, but that is only the case for a few fights in my experience, I still believe that our real regrowth usage has a very strong correlation to our haste though, if you are assuming most, if not all regrowths are casted with OoC then the throughput of regrowth scales well with haste (no double dipping or anything.), but time spent on casting regrowth should remain pretty much constant, mana spent on regrowth remains constant, but the amount of casts you get out should increase.

[Drekor]

No i haven't. I only counted heals that are directly affected by haste (hots) and assumed that we would cast the same spells even if we had +100 Haste or Mastery or... I also assumed that heals can be amplified and will overheal the same (so if your Tranq overhealed 40% then a bigger Tranq would overheal same 40%).
These - while false - are not too far from the truth in my opinion if you are progressing/struggling with the content.
If you believe you could do more if you had higher haste then you need a non-log based approach. Someone linked a spreadsheet in this thread (which was made by Torty i think). That shows your potential much better.

Having said that I have to admit that my Haste calculation is rather weak and most likely underestimates its value.

And up to this point my Mastery calculation wasn't strong either but I made a tool to check my HOT count! In my last mythic+ run i had 2.9 average hot count (weighted by healing) and 3.53 on tank. I strongly think Mastery is better than Intellect in mythic+.

http://proudguild.eu/resto-stats/

If you try it out (plain Javascript, doesn't upload the logs anywhere) then you can post your Ms (weighted average hot count) here so we can see how many hots you keep up! If you have advanced logging enabled in game then it will calculate your Mastery stat weight too as the log contains your Intellect and Mastery.

Neat tool... and yea it showing my mastery stacks up at nearly 5(4.98) on average for tank 2-3 for everyone else during a +10. Bracer legendary 4tw.

[ManyHeadedDruid]

Neat tool... and yea it showing my mastery stacks up at nearly 5(4.98) on average for tank 2-3 for everyone else during a +10. Bracer legendary 4tw.

How is it possible? Maybe the tool is wrong? I understand 4 (2x Rejuv, Lifebloom, Regrowth) but all the others have some trigger or CD. How did you get to 5 on average? Did you alternate WG+Cenarion Ward (legendary helps...)+Flourish and kept tank around 50% for Cultivation?

I got close to 4 on tank but so much damage hitting others several times one of my hots drops.

[Drekor]

How is it possible? Maybe the tool is wrong? I understand 4 (2x Rejuv, Lifebloom, Regrowth) but all the others have some trigger or CD. How did you get to 5 on average? Did you alternate WG+Cenarion Ward (legendary helps...)+Flourish and kept tank around 50% for Cultivation?

I got close to 4 on tank but so much damage hitting others several times one of my hots drops.

2x Rejuv, Cultivation, Lifebloom, Regrowth are pretty much 100% with CW popping in there. Frequent (nearly on cooldown) use of flourish and swiftmend with legendary bracers(+10s on all HoTs)