How did you find Karazhan?

[Varaben]

I don't find it that overtuned, but I can see why people would think that. Once we figured out the mechanics, the fights seemed pretty easy. However, I think healers would probably disagree with me, as there does seem to be a LOT of damage going out on every fight. Garrotes on Moroes and sacred ground on maiden cause a lot of healer strain.

It requires DPS to use their healing cooldowns and such, which hasn't typically been necessary in a lot of 5 man content.

What I believe is happening is that Blizzard is testing us on whether we will like 5 man "raid" content. This is certainly not your typical mythic+0, but since it drops mounts and much better gear than mythics, I don't think we would expect it to be like +0.

The biggest problem is the run backs of course. I anticipate that will be corrected by/on next Tuesday. It's a trivial thing to fix. They just make you spawn at X place instead of Y, when Z conditions are met (AKA bosses are killed).

Regarding itemization, I think that's to be expected. Recall that because the ilevel starts out so much higher than other 5 mans, there is as much higher chance at you getting 860 870 880 gear than from M+0 or LFR. I think once people get an item like that, they will change their tune.

Recall that when an item warforges, it flips a coin to see whether to increase 5 ilevels, then flips another, etc. The result is that it becomes exponentially harder to get 895 proc from an 840 base than an 855 base. Three extra coin flips is the difference between (just for argument's sake) .04% chance (840->895) and a .4% chance (855->895) (using a 50% chance at each 5 ilevel bracket). That's 10x more likely to see an 895 from Kara than from Mythic+0 dungeon.

[beelgers]

I haven't done it yet. Is it really "overtuned" or do the mechanics just really matter? Not being able to 1 shot all the bosses isn't a bad thing. Having to actually do mechanics isn't a bad thing. If you execute the mechanics well and play your class well at 850-860 and still don't have the throughput with DPS and/or heals to get the boss down while executing correctly *after a couple attempts*, then it's overtuned. Just my personal opinion anyway. Which option is happening (doing well+knowing fights+still tons of wipes OR just not 1-shotting and not able to ignore mechanics)?

[Finglas]

I don't know, I was hoping I didn't have to go to that place at all.
I don't get why Blizzard wastes time on dungeons when the game is next to unplayable.

There are other issues that they really need to focus on.

This is such a ridiculous statement. I'm sure very few people would call the game unplayable, I can't even think of anything that's given me an issue this expansion. The dungeon was great and most people want fresh content, others just want to complain about whatever they can find to complain about.

[thunderdragon2]

had a grp for 860+ go in last night got to last boss with great difficulty had problems on each boss i feel its over tuned for 3 melee i gave up on the last boss at 3am.... now i cant find the motivation to go bck as i wont find a grp at last boss and reclearing it is just.....

[Aggrophobic]

This is such a ridiculous statement. I'm sure very few people would call the game unplayable, I can't even think of anything that's given me an issue this expansion. The dungeon was great and most people want fresh content, others just want to complain about whatever they can find to complain about.

No, I just complain about legendaries and RNG, thats what makes the game unplayable for me.

[t1saif]

any tips on moroes? cant beat him, tried with 3 random groups

im resto shaman 850, the damage from garrote and when any aoe add is alive is making me use all my cds and lots of mana on the first phase and whats left is not enough for second. Best attempt is something around 10%

[xpose]

I haven't done it yet. Is it really "overtuned" or do the mechanics just really matter? Not being able to 1 shot all the bosses isn't a bad thing. Having to actually do mechanics isn't a bad thing. If you execute the mechanics well and play your class well at 850-860 and still don't have the throughput with DPS and/or heals to get the boss down while executing correctly *after a couple attempts*, then it's overtuned. Just my personal opinion anyway. Which option is happening (doing well+knowing fights+still tons of wipes OR just not 1-shotting and not able to ignore mechanics)?

After last night I told myself I am never healing that instance again, but looking back I think I would try it again but with a more balanced comp. We went in with guild members and used discord but we gimped ourselves by taking two tanks and having one flex dps (which was bad since he had no idea how to dps) for part of the instance until the other tank had to leave.

We basically had

850 Druid Tank
845 Brewmaster (flex dps, bad)
850 Ret Paladin (bad stats)
860 Frost DK
861 Resto Druid (main boomkin but good gear for both specs)


We killed three bosses and called it since the Druid had to leave and we didn't want to pug a dps so the brewmaster could tank. I think I'm going to try it again this weekend but go with one melee and two ranged for dps.

The fights I did requires more coordination than normal instances so we had to keep reminding the DK and Paladin to not tunnel and dps and actually do the mechanics since they would not interrupt on moroes and I would instantly die in the opening if I got Garrote + Stunned

[Ebalina]

I don't find it anything.
Yet to go there and not really in a rush either.

Rather kill the cenarius wall on mythic 1st.

[Deleted]

any tips on moroes? cant beat him, tried with 3 random groups

im resto shaman 850, the damage from garrote and when any aoe add is alive is making me use all my cds and lots of mana on the first phase and whats left is not enough for second. Best attempt is something around 10%

Heal conservative is the main thing, never panic as a resto shaman.
Garrote is constant, predictable damage, which means you can use a riptide->hw rotation to keep everyone topped which should never drain your mana too much. If you are draining mana that fast it sounds like your are panicing and using infficient heals like healing surge to top people, which is not needed at all in most cases.
Get the talents to support 5man healing, myself i find undulation, ascendance and ancestral guidance absolutely invaluable for that. Also get echo of the elements, having 2 healing stream totem and 2 riptide charges is invaluable in 5mans. Don't forget to use healing rain too (if this particular boss is giving you trouble you could even think about speccing into deluge for it, depending on if your comp has more than 1 melee dps).

It takes some getting used to but when you get conservative healing into your system for 5mans, it will make your life a lot easier. Especially DPS should not die in seconds with the current healthpools; if they do it is probably from them doing something wrong and that is not your responsibility.

[bubbadubba]

So after a while of people clearing Karazhan (or wiping) how did you find the experience of the dungeon in a whole?

In my personal opinion the dungeon is way to overtuned for what you get as a reward. The tactics on bosses are fine and it promotes people to actually use their brain, however, after finally downing that one boss and you receive an 855 ilvl which is worse than some normal EN items (in regards to stats) just breaks my heart.

The one thing i hated the most is that there is close to no save points when you die. If you die on maiden you have to run all the way from entrance and back, imo they should've added a save point after every boss.

I did not find it hard or challenging, the fights were fun and we didn't really read any of the fights and winged the whole thing.

We only had trouble on two bosses, first was moroes because both people with the traps kept pulling by mistake because they have played hunters at some point. Thought the trap was to be placed at location rather then instantly at target.

The other boss was the last boss. It was not difficult but we were all tired and certain people were not pulling their weight. The mechanics in the fight are simple but we had people who kept getting hit by the knockback beam. The actual issue we had is that one of our dps who couldn't get out of mechanics also pulled 100k dps. We eventually got it down but was a giant pain just because it was a carry. I was doing 350k, dps under me was 250k, tank 150-175 and last dps at 100k. I was also throwing out heals to help survive at the end.

So if that one dps wasn't so low we probably would have had a joke of a run.

To kick it off he got midnight reins lol.

[Bad Management]

Easy, boring and just as ass as it was the first time.
Also, horribly itemized loot, as per standard in Legion.
One-and done for my part.

[bubbadubba]

any tips on moroes? cant beat him, tried with 3 random groups

im resto shaman 850, the damage from garrote and when any aoe add is alive is making me use all my cds and lots of mana on the first phase and whats left is not enough for second. Best attempt is something around 10%

Trap two targets and single target each one after. Before the two that are trapped break, bring moroes down to 80%. Kill the two trapped targets one at a time. Nuke moroes.

The garrote is more of a slow enrage. You can also get really unlucky with who gets the multiple stacks. We were also using defensives as DPS which are needed.

[grandpab]

My group finished it last night. We worked on it for about an hour on Wednesday, and took about another 3 hours to finish it last night. We wiped on every boss at least once or twice. The majority of bosses we got on the third attempt as we worked out the mechanics. I think everybody in my group hated mana devourer, that one caused us the 2nd most wipes. The final boss gave us the most issues with people getting insta gibbed by the orbs. That one took 6 wipes or so, but it was a fun fight.

[Deleted]

I finished it today in a group that were all 855 - 865 ilvl. We had a few wipes but the bosses were fine once we'd got the strats down. Tuning is absolutely fine.

First half of the dungeon was a total nostalgia trip, both in terms of how awesome the atmosphere was and how fucking bad the corpse runs were. Second half the dungeon was excellent. Loved the Shade fight and the last boss is epic in terms of scale (if not in difficulty).

The new Attumen fight can eat a bag of dicks though. So hard to tell who you need to dispel.

[FertsBlert]

I don't find it that overtuned, but I can see why people would think that. Once we figured out the mechanics, the fights seemed pretty easy. However, I think healers would probably disagree with me, as there does seem to be a LOT of damage going out on every fight. Garrotes on Moroes and sacred ground on maiden cause a lot of healer strain.

It requires DPS to use their healing cooldowns and such, which hasn't typically been necessary in a lot of 5 man content.

What I believe is happening is that Blizzard is testing us on whether we will like 5 man "raid" content. This is certainly not your typical mythic+0, but since it drops mounts and much better gear than mythics, I don't think we would expect it to be like +0.

The biggest problem is the run backs of course. I anticipate that will be corrected by/on next Tuesday. It's a trivial thing to fix. They just make you spawn at X place instead of Y, when Z conditions are met (AKA bosses are killed).

Regarding itemization, I think that's to be expected. Recall that because the ilevel starts out so much higher than other 5 mans, there is as much higher chance at you getting 860 870 880 gear than from M+0 or LFR. I think once people get an item like that, they will change their tune.

Recall that when an item warforges, it flips a coin to see whether to increase 5 ilevels, then flips another, etc. The result is that it becomes exponentially harder to get 895 proc from an 840 base than an 855 base. Three extra coin flips is the difference between (just for argument's sake) .04% chance (840->895) and a .4% chance (855->895) (using a 50% chance at each 5 ilevel bracket). That's 10x more likely to see an 895 from Kara than from Mythic+0 dungeon.

From the sound of that it's very much like the original Kara, Garrotte was an utter bitch, outgoing damage was high and healer mana was tight so much so that as a warlock I used to actually take note of when one of the healer druids was wearing pants (had a tunic chestpiece) rather than the robe chestpiece, meant she'd put on her regen gear and was on group heals rather than her throughput gear and on tank heals which meant that I was going to get a HoT when I lifetapped rather than having to bandage.

Also the first week or so of release a lot of the heroic troll dungeons were hard as balls and took good play to succeed, after that week or so success of groups was much more assured and only really the utter idiots (or utter noobs) could fail.

[Deleted]

Am i being stupid or do you have to run a LONG way each time you wipe?

[jettzypher]

I found Karazhan by flying there from Duskwood. Was pretty easy, really.

[bmjclark]

Healed it on my 853 druid alt (only been 110 for about a week so my gear isn't very well itemized or anything) and it seemed just fine for the gear it drops tbh. The mechanics are punishing if you mess them up (not focusing adds on curator, getting multiple stacks of sacred ground on maiden ect) but they should be. Average ilvl in the group was around 855.

Some of the fights seem really punishing for bringing multiple melee though, shade being the most obvious example considering if the melee all stand close for flamewreath you wipe, or stack with inferno bolt they take pretty much unhealable damage with 3+ stacks of it. Even curator seemed a lot harder with melee because you couldnt stack the magic stuff tightly so it was just kind of a clusterfuck if your dps was low.

[Firehands]

I bet the people voting it is fine are guild groups of 870+.

Go in there with an ilvl you think it is tuned for: 845-850 seeing it drops 855 and is the next step after normal mythics.

I bet you won't vote it is fine anymore then.

My guild has done kara a few times on 850-860 alts and it was fine..

[Morbownz]

Completed it tonight in a PuG, tank 858, DPS 860, 862, 867 and a healer 871 and it took us just over a couple of hours with a few breaks. We wiped a couple of times on some bosses and 1 shot other bosses, mainly it felt like execution was the only issue as most of the group hadn't seen any encounters.

It was refreshing to see nobody instantly looking at the DPS meters after a wipe to decide who was to blame. The thing I enjoyed most was the fact that we needed to communicate throughout the instance. Knowing how big the instance is made me want to complete it in one go, this made me want my group not to fail, this made each of us in the group a little more devoted to the each other, we communicated and assisted whenever it required it and after successfully completing the instance everyone was really happy with each other.