Why does blizz think sin needs haste?

[jaibird]

I have recently switched to assassination from sub because of the simplicity and sustainability of PvE DPS. I have noticed since I switched specialties, the loot I have been getting all has haste. Isn't haste the least important stat for sin rogues? Am I better off staying in the subtlety specialization for more crit and mastery?

[ribthanwa]

I have recently switched to assassination from sub because of the simplicity and sustainability of PvE DPS. I have noticed since I switched specialties, the loot I have been getting all has haste. Isn't haste the least important stat for sin rogues? Am I better off staying in the subtlety specialization for more crit and mastery?

Your loot spec has absolutely 0 bearing on which secondary stats come on your gear. The one exception to this is the list of legendaries that you have the possibility of looting.

[Smaxy]

Your loot spec has absolutely 0 bearing on which secondary stats come on your gear. The one exception to this is the list of legendaries that you have the possibility of looting.

Relics too

[A dot Ham]

I'm with you though.

No matter how hard I try to increase my crit% on my DH, every ilvl upgrade I get seems to be haste and mastery... it really fucking sucks.

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Your loot spec has absolutely 0 bearing on which secondary stats come on your gear. The one exception to this is the list of legendaries that you have the possibility of looting.

Honestly it should though. If the system is intelligent enough to flag certain items as (spec A) or (spec B) then it should also be able to appropriately apply the random secondary stats as well. In fact I don't think it is a far stretch to create a system that optimizes gear, and applies the best possible secondary stats possible based on your currently equipped set for a given spec.

But then again Blizzard would have to know their own classes and too often it feels like players know more about how a class functions and can be optimized then the people that actually designed the damn things. It also feels like the people that design the gear and itemization have little or no contact with the folks that designed the class either. Its a frustrating experience.

[ribthanwa]

Relics too

Truth. Good point. But there's no options to secondaries on those.

[ymirsson]

I'm with you though.

No matter how hard I try to increase my crit% on my DH, every ilvl upgrade I get seems to be haste and mastery... it really fucking sucks.

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Honestly it should though. If the system is intelligent enough to flag certain items as (spec A) or (spec B) then it should also be able to appropriately apply the random secondary stats as well. In fact I don't think it is a far stretch to create a system that optimizes gear, and applies the best possible secondary stats possible based on your currently equipped set for a given spec.

But then again Blizzard would have to know their own classes and too often it feels like players know more about how a class functions and can be optimized then the people that actually designed the damn things. It also feels like the people that design the gear and itemization have little or no contact with the folks that designed the class either. Its a frustrating experience.

Blizzard doesn't want you to have only drops with your perceived "best" stats.

And besides that, those best could change any moment, what to do then? Change the loot spec specifics every hotfix or everytime a theorycrafter optimizes a playstyle and changes the needed stats? Do you even remotely see what your changes would imply?
The only logical conclusion would be letting the player choose the stats on his gear, completely killing any gearing process(and giving bad/inexpierienced players even more chances to fuck up) and changing it into a simple ilvl grind. In that case, they could indeed remove secondary stats from the game and reduce gear to itemlevel only.

[polyxena]

Cant control RNG

[A dot Ham]

Blizzard doesn't want you to have only drops with your perceived "best" stats.

And besides that, those best could change any moment, what to do then? Change the loot spec specifics every hotfix or everytime a theorycrafter optimizes a playstyle and changes the needed stats? Do you even remotely see what your changes would imply?
The only logical conclusion would be letting the player choose the stats on his gear, completely killing any gearing process(and giving bad/inexpierienced players even more chances to fuck up) and changing it into a simple ilvl grind. In that case, they could indeed remove secondary stats from the game and reduce gear to itemlevel only.

I'd be fine with that.

I mean don't try and pretend that it isn't just an ilvl race right now anyway.

Yes today ilvl 880 drops with haste and mastery, next week same slot drops at 880 w/ crit and vers and its an upgrade.

And lets be real how often do best stats and theorycrafting change mid xpac? Never? I mean that fucks over a whole slew of people who have stacked the "best" secondary stat, only to have them change how that secondary stats interacts with a given spec/mechanics. It doesn't happen and you know it.

[ymirsson]

IAnd lets be real how often do best stats and theorycrafting change mid xpac? Never? I mean that fucks over a whole slew of people who have stacked the "best" secondary stat, only to have them change how that secondary stats interacts with a given spec/mechanics. It doesn't happen and you know it.

This is your first Year of WoW?

[Sephiroso]

I'd be fine with that.

I mean don't try and pretend that it isn't just an ilvl race right now anyway.

Yes today ilvl 880 drops with haste and mastery, next week same slot drops at 880 w/ crit and vers and its an upgrade.

And lets be real how often do best stats and theorycrafting change mid xpac? Never? I mean that fucks over a whole slew of people who have stacked the "best" secondary stat, only to have them change how that secondary stats interacts with a given spec/mechanics. It doesn't happen and you know it.

If you think ilvl is the only thing that matters right now then you're laughably ignorant. Now more so than any other time ever in WoW, ilvl means the least it ever has before.

Also, what secondary stats are best has always changed as your gear got better, not because some theorycrafter mid expac said so. So, you really don't know what you're talking about at all.

[A dot Ham]

If you think ilvl is the only thing that matters right now then you're laughably ignorant. Now more so than any other time ever in WoW, ilvl means the least it ever has before.

Also, what secondary stats are best has always changed as your gear got better, not because some theorycrafter mid expac said so. So, you really don't know what you're talking about at all.

Let me just go take a quick screen shot of the premade groups forming up for Kara and Kara attunement and see how many are looking for other players with specific secondary stats...

Oh wait... nobody does that.

So for you to say "it doesn't matter" is ignorant. The game requires at least 850 to even bother with Kara, and players are demanding even higher, and NO ONE gives a flying fuck what secondary stats you are focusing on.

I'm well aware that certain slots (pretty sure its exclusive to trinkets) have BiS that are far below highest ilvl (which is an exception to the rule) and I am sure at some point these things will be addressed, making higher ilvl trinkets actually worthwhile.

Also your secondary stats don't stop being relevant or "change" but once you have reached a certain benchmark, you start focusing on other stats... that doesn't make your "best" stat irrelevant.

[ymirsson]

Let me just go take a quick screen shot of the premade groups forming up for Kara and Kara attunement and see how many are looking for other players with specific secondary stats...

Oh wait... nobody does that.

So for you to say "it doesn't matter" is ignorant. The game requires at least 850 to even bother with Kara, and players are demanding even higher, and NO ONE gives a flying fuck what secondary stats you are focusing on.

I'm well aware that certain slots (pretty sure its exclusive to trinkets) have BiS that are far below highest ilvl (which is an exception to the rule) and I am sure at some point these things will be addressed, making higher ilvl trinkets actually worthwhile.

Also your secondary stats don't stop being relevant or "change" but once you have reached a certain benchmark, you start focusing on other stats... that doesn't make your "best" stat irrelevant.

People wanting a minimum ilvl for their Pugs have nothing to do with the optimal second stats for your char. Of course noone looks up your whole gear before he/she/apache helicopter invites (or more likely, declines) you entry into their random dungeon group. It's all a matter of time/effort per expected reward.
But the gearing strategy can change any day, if someone finds a new previously unfound strategy, some new exotic trinket demands a specific setup, your tier bonuses change your ability priorities, there are so many possible factors, sometimes it's "only" an optimized APL for simcraft changing your stat weights.

And indeed, for actual performance, there never was a time i can recall where ilvl mattered less. That Blizzard reinforces it as a measuring stick, that only shows what kind of simple metric it is.

[Sephiroso]

Let me just go take a quick screen shot of the premade groups forming up for Kara and Kara attunement and see how many are looking for other players with specific secondary stats...

Oh wait... nobody does that.

So for you to say "it doesn't matter" is ignorant. The game requires at least 850 to even bother with Kara, and players are demanding even higher, and NO ONE gives a flying fuck what secondary stats you are focusing on.

I'm well aware that certain slots (pretty sure its exclusive to trinkets) have BiS that are far below highest ilvl (which is an exception to the rule) and I am sure at some point these things will be addressed, making higher ilvl trinkets actually worthwhile.

Also your secondary stats don't stop being relevant or "change" but once you have reached a certain benchmark, you start focusing on other stats... that doesn't make your "best" stat irrelevant.

Can someone explain to this person how...flawed his line of thinking is? I'm just in awe right now.

[jaibird]

Wow, that means I have been getting extremely unlucky with my recent loot. So what is the point of picking a specialization as a DPS class? They should just remove that option altogether unless you're a tank or healing class. Thanks for the information. Sorry for sparking an unintentional argument ;P

[ymirsson]

Wow, that means I have been getting extremely unlucky with my recent loot. So what is the point of picking a specialization as a DPS class?

Different loot in some cases. Like daggers/non daggers for rogue specs. Caster/melee loot for shaman enhancer/elemental. Legendaries.

[Firatha]

Wow, that means I have been getting extremely unlucky with my recent loot. So what is the point of picking a specialization as a DPS class? They should just remove that option altogether unless you're a tank or healing class. Thanks for the information. Sorry for sparking an unintentional argument ;P

As a rogue all loot spec is for is relics and legendaries.

Different loot in some cases. Like daggers/non daggers for rogue specs. Caster/melee loot for shaman enhancer/elemental. Legendaries.

This too it was more a thing for weapons when we had them and for classes with more then one role,

[A dot Ham]

Can someone explain to this person how...flawed his line of thinking is? I'm just in awe right now.

Well Mr. Expert... put your money where your mouth is and link your armory. I guarantee you are currently equipped exactly as described, as are most people.

[ymirsson]

Well Mr. Expert... put your money where your mouth is and link your armory. I guarantee you are currently equipped exactly as described, as are most people.

As described how?

[A dot Ham]

As described how?

In my "flawed line of thinking"... its like talking to a GD mannequin.

[ymirsson]

You mean ilvl as the only defining number?