Why does blizz think sin needs haste?

[A dot Ham]

Fact is, noone but you on the semi serious side of WoW gears for ilvl alone. Even beyond the language barrier.

First it doesn't matter at all... now it matters somewhat... make up your mind.

[ymirsson]

First it doesn't matter at all... now it matters somewhat... make up your mind.

You like saying nothing meaningful, do you?

[Sephiroso]

There it is. It is an ongoing process, but nobody passes up on a primary stat upgrade simply because it doesn't have the right secondary stats. Higher ilvl almost always equates to higher primary stat. Exceptions are rings, neck, aaaaaand sometimes trinkets. You have a lot of nerve dropping the "casual" comment. I'm just going to leave it at that. Thanks for the very exhausting and fruitless banter. It was a pleasure to meet you Mr. Pot. *Signed* Mr. Kettle.

Yes, yes they do. an 835 shoulder with a 150 secondary stat gem in it is better than an 850 shoulder for my sub spec. It's not drastically better but it is better.

And the proof since i know you're gonna ask for it.

835 Shoulders w/ 150 vers gem. Fixed

850 Shoulders.

P.S. Hope you appreciate the name change.

[A dot Ham]

You like saying nothing meaningful, do you?

More of that pot, kettle stuff.

[ymirsson]

More of that pot, kettle stuff.

I dont get it, but that must be your language barrier.

[A dot Ham]

Yes, yes they do. an 835 shoulder with a 150 secondary stat gem in it is better than an 850 shoulder for my sub spec. It's not drastically better but it is better.

And the proof since i know you're gonna ask for it.

835 Shoulders w/ 150 vers gem. Fixed

850 Shoulders.

P.S. Hope you appreciate the name change.

Very clever. I do.

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I dont get it, but that must be your language barrier.

There is that talking to the wall thing again...

Pot calling the kettle black... its an expression.

It means you are insulting/accusing me of the very thing you yourself are doing.

[ymirsson]

There is that talking to the wall thing again...

Pot calling the kettle black... its an expression.

It means you are insulting/accusing me of the very thing you yourself are doing.

No, really?
/sarcasm

So, do you need more proof that the ilvl hypothesis is wrong?

[A dot Ham]

@Sephiroso

So clearly I was wrong. But I'm not going to apologize for it, because MY way got me into raids. It may not be the best performance by any means.

I noticed that someone here said they choose artifact relics based on the trait it provides regardless of ilvl? Is that effecient given that the higher ilvl on relics increases the base damage of your weapon/artifact?

[Deleted]

My legendary ilvl 895 ring is worse than mastery/crit ilvl 865 ring. A 880 pair of boots sim lower than 865 etc, rellics = wep ilvl can be better even 20 ilvlvs lower cause bad special. Atm i can use 876 gear, but i sim ALOT better in 871 gear.

How can you claim its better to use hugger ilvl gear? Do you not sim every drop before use?

I only use 876 gear for invites to pugs, as soon a decent 865 ring drop i wont use the legendary ring for example

[ymirsson]

@Sephiroso

I noticed that someone here said they choose artifact relics based on the trait it provides regardless of ilvl? Is that effecient given that the higher ilvl on relics increases the base damage of your weapon/artifact?

No, people do it to fuck with the partysauruses. [funny emoji to alleviate the sting]

What kind of question is that? Obviously, someone claimed, and backed up that claim, that the relic traits are worth more DPS then the pure ilvl increase on the weapon.


And yes, before you ask, i have issues, but i'm not going to apologize for that, as that got me into raids.

[pies1]

ilvl is nothing but a trap for casuals at this point.

[Deleted]

This thread is hilarious.

[Deleted]

Just look at the karazhan loottables.. 80% of the leather items have haste .. ffs what has blizz done? Hidden nerf to leather classes?
So nonsense to visit karazhan, just for the hope to get 1-2 item slots.

[DakonBlackblade]

le sigh. Obviously a person has to infer certain things. But seeing a higest ilvl of say 880 and an equipped ilvl of 860-879 or whatever... would have reasons and I would see that you have a valid argument. I would ask the logic behind that because clearly I would be in the wrong and could learn something. But if you have gear equipped to your highest ilvl, it speaks more to my argument that people primarily equip the highest ilvl gear FIRST as a priority, and focus on secondary stats next.

Ok champ Im gona go equip my 880 ring with completly wrong stats over my 855 one with all the right ones and a socket because you are saying so. While Im at it Ill also equip my 5 ilevel highers neck with fucked up stats and my chest with no socket, screwed stats and 10 ilevel over the other one with a socket and perfect secondaries. You sure know what you are doing. O and Im gona swap in this cloak of shadows cd relic over my rupture damage one cause it has 5 ilevels over it.

[A dot Ham]

Ok champ Im gona go equip my 880 ring with completly wrong stats over my 855 one with all the right ones and a socket because you are saying so. While Im at it Ill also equip my 5 ilevel highers neck with fucked up stats and my chest with no socket, screwed stats and 10 ilevel over the other one with a socket and perfect secondaries. You sure know what you are doing. O and Im gona swap in this cloak of shadows cd relic over my rupture damage one cause it has 5 ilevels over it.

Its funny that of everything THIS is the quote you land on, as I'm admitting that IF someone were to show their armory with a max ilvl much higher than that of what is actually equipped, that this would give credence to the argument they are/were making, and that I WOULD be willing to concede if that was the case. The person I was conversing with took it a step further to simply run sims and prove me wrong... and I did admit that I was in fact wrong. So you're late to the game...

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What kind of question is that? Obviously, someone claimed, and backed up that claim, that the relic traits are worth more DPS then the pure ilvl increase on the weapon.

Where was this proven?

Guess I'll just play with sims myself.

Base modifier to all melee attacks vs base modifier to a specific ability.

[Nythiz]

Where was this proven?

I don't really want to interrupt your little bitch fight here, but if this is about relic bonuses vs ilvl than someone indeed simmed the effect of all the bonuses.

Here it is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...lview?sle=true

This is pretty old (from shortly after the launch) so it's not entirely accurate anymore, especially not for outlaw.
But you can easily see how some bonuses are strong enough that an ilvl downgrade is warranted.

An 840 relic with Gushing Wounds is stronger for assassination than an 860 relic with Poisoned Knives for example.

[Deleted]

There it is. It is an ongoing process, but nobody passes up on a primary stat upgrade simply because it doesn't have the right secondary stats. Higher ilvl almost always equates to higher primary stat. Exceptions are rings, neck, aaaaaand sometimes trinkets. You have a lot of nerve dropping the "casual" comment. I'm just going to leave it at that. Thanks for the very exhausting and fruitless banter. It was a pleasure to meet you Mr. Pot. *Signed* Mr. Kettle.

Indeed, this is faulse. i've got some pieces 880 which are way worse than my actually ilvl 860 gear equipped on my warlock. I'd suggest that you check your weight stat and download the add on "Pawn" to see exactly how ilvl interfere with choice when optimizing your gear. you'd be surprised.

Actually, my warlock has 877 ilvl equipped for 882 ilvl overall.

PS : here are some links to show you that ilvl are not that matters, especially with relics and trinkets. PLUS they are updated :
downloads.simulationcraft.org/Gahddo/destro_raid_trinkets.html
downloads.simulationcraft.org/Gahddo/destro_relics.html