Dakota Pipeline Protests

[alexkeren]

I don't get why adding a 1000th pipeline is an issue. They are not known for leaking, or causing harm to the environment. It's like protesting oil tankers, even though there has only every been like one major spill.

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Oil will always win as long as all you have to do it dig a hole and pump it out. Solar requires manufacturing and isn't even remotely competitive on cost. Someday, when technology catches up, or we run out of nearly free energy (oil), I'm sure we will look in to solar and the other non-competitive energy sources. Fighting against it in the interim is futile, and irresponsible to poor people who struggle with utility costs.

<- points at sig

The pipeline in my state has leaked multiple times, however fairly minor and never at any of the water crossings. It has also had the most infamous oil tanker disaster, but not nearly the only one.

Most of the pipelines here in the Lower 48 are over 50 years old and have NONE of the safety measures being put into DAPL. Many of them have had spills in the last couple decades.

There's also been many train derailments that have spilled oil as well.

So though I am pro using all energy sources until it's cost effective to go only alternative energy, it'd help if you did some research.

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How or where are people supposed to protest when they're not allowed anywhere near the perpetrators / wrong-doers?

Their base camp for one is on Indian land and other people who have given them permission to use their land.

And the company building the pipeline are neither perpetrators nor wrong-doers. You protest on public land with a permit, or private land you have permission to be on.


Edit: There's been multiple instances by the protesters since early on that has involved trespass, vandalism or destruction of property.

[Gamdwelf]

I guess you don't like having medicine, brushing your teeth, having any kind of electronics or plastics, having tires for your car, having a car in general, clothes, a refrigerator, shoes, washing your hair, eating, taking a tylenol, having surgery without being awake for it...and so on and so forth.

Just like when the native bands out in Nova Scotia were protesting O&G exploration a few years back, not even building anything, but surveying the land. They blocked highways, burned cars, cop cars too. "We're protecting the environment!" By incinerating shit and dumping a load of chemicals and toxins into the ground and air Classic protester move.

Those things suck

They are all fluff

[Tijuana]

<- points at sig

The pipeline in my state has leaked multiple times, however fairly minor and never at any of the water crossings. It has also had the most infamous oil tanker disaster, but not nearly the only one.

Most of the pipelines here in the Lower 48 are over 50 years old and have NONE of the safety measures being put into DAPL. Many of them have had spills in the last couple decades.

There's also been many train derailments that have spilled oil as well.

So though I am pro using all energy sources until it's cost effective to go only alternative energy, it'd help if you did some research.

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Their base camp for one is on Indian land and other people who have given them permission to use their land.

And the company building the pipeline are neither perpetrators nor wrong-doers. You protest on public land with a permit, or private land you have permission to be on.


Edit: There's been multiple instances by the protesters since early on that has involved trespass, vandalism or destruction of property.

If they never spill and don't cause any issues at all what so ever, why are they bad again? Because they MIGHT spill? The pipeline map looks pretty similar to the interstate highway map. There are hundreds of them snaking across Canadia and the US. HUNDREDS. Why is this one all of a sudden an issue? What is the alternative? To put the oil in a boat or on a train, which you admit is less safe? What is gained if the protesters win, other than to stick it to the man?

Also, this is as discussion forum, not a research forum. If you want me to know what you know, you need to share it. That is how this works.

[Milchshake]

Pipelines spills from 2010 to present.

[Theinquisition]

Those things suck

They are all fluff

modern Medicine is fluff?

bwahahahaha

tell me your joking

[Fasc]

70 miles is nothing

There was a relatively small (about 1500 barrels) pipeline leak up here recently. It shut down water supplies over 200 miles down river for weeks.

It isn't the distance, it is the access to aquifers and other water sources. Pipeline could be leaking within 1000 yards and be of no consequence, depends on a LOT of factors. This is something that's pretty easy to confirm/deny if you dig through the state's equivalent of DHH or w/e they call their public health office there.

[Shadowferal]

I'm reminded of the chemical spill in WV. If affected 9 counties and 300k people. The people were told not to drink, cook with, bathe, or wash with West Virginia American Water tap water. In short, they had no water. And that puts a halt to everything as people were reminded just how all-important having a source of clean water truly is. Everything just comes to a stop, businesses, government, schools, had to close, hospitals were under emergency procedures to ration water.
Having a source of clean water is something no one ever wants to risk.

[Gamdwelf]

modern Medicine is fluff?

bwahahahaha

tell me your joking

Bunch of it is yeah people taking drugs instead of other things they could be doing to correct the issues.

[Fasc]

Bunch of it is yeah people taking drugs instead of other things they could be doing to correct the issues.

"Other things" are included in modern medicine too... just sayin'

[Mad_Murdock]

No, you clearly don't understand how big of a footprint is required with the current manufacturing technology for solar to power a city. It doesn't matter where it's put, but clearly there is not enough room anywhere near NYC to power NYC that wouldn't first be built for somewhere closer to said large expansive open land.

You must not have gotten the memo. The plan is to bulldoze New Jersey flat and make the entire state one big solar panel.

[Gamdwelf]

https://www.tesla.com/solar

When people think solar isn't an alternative.

[kail]

https://www.tesla.com/solar

When people think solar isn't an alternative.

At some point, sure it's going to happen. But that's a major hurdle that won't be completed anytime soon. Solar is expensive, transition is best done gradually.

As for the protest, I only question what sort of compromise efforts were made. Can't claim either side being right or wrong without more details.

[Seranthor]

At this point, I would tell the native american people to use their second amendment rights, and force the oil company from the land. That, or more stars going down there to get arrested. THEN it will get national news. As it is, the corporate media will not cover anything about it, as they are being paid not too.

This is where I encourage you to find a map of the reservation and of the pipeline route and show me on the map where the pipeline infringes on the reservation land.

[Independent voter]

Any video of these hippies getting pepper sprayed and bean bagged?

[TirielWoW]

And? If it's not on their reservation then they have no right to decide what get's done on that property. Imagine if a Christian church tried blocking a company from building something on private property that they owned because that church and it's followers considered it a sacred site. No one would care because they don't own that property. You can't stop people from doing what they want with their property just because some group somewhere has an emotional or spiritual connection to it. On top of that, if the sites were that important to the tribe then they should've either tried to gain private ownership of them or renegotiated the border of their reservation to include them in it, but they didn't despite having at least decades worth of time to do so and now here we are with them losing out because they seem to think that they can claim right's over property that they have no ownership of.

I think you misunderstood what I posted. Here, I'll try again.

I was responding to the claim that no sacred sites exist, and that if they did, of course they would be preserved.

The first claim is impossible to prove, and I provided an example of a situation where the people charged with finding sacred sites (CRM firms) haven't actually done their jobs. The second claim is simply false - you could find an entire Native American burial ground on the land, and it wouldn't matter at all.

[Shadowferal]

It's not for some shitty company that worships monetary profits to determine what's sacred to Native Americans.

You must not have gotten the memo. The plan is to bulldoze New Jersey flat and make the entire state one big solar panel.

NJ is already flat. That's the reason stated for banning rifles.

[Mad_Murdock]

NJ is already flat. That's the reason stated for banning rifles.

That's a pretty funny reason.

[Skayth]

This is where I encourage you to find a map of the reservation and of the pipeline route and show me on the map where the pipeline infringes on the reservation land.

Its fairly easy to point that out. Its the moment it hits the Missouri river. Being Up river, all its nasty junk is going to flow down river, and into the Reservation, as Pipelines are known to break. Hell, we just had a leak with one in the south.

Here, how about this. someone dumps garbage into a small creek up stream, and you fill your canteen with water, down stream. Whats going to be in it? Garbage water. That is this, but on such a grander scale.

[Seranthor]

Its fairly easy to point that out. Its the moment it hits the Missouri river. Being Up river, all its nasty junk is going to flow down river, and into the Reservation, as Pipelines are known to break. Hell, we just had a leak with one in the south.

Here, how about this. someone dumps garbage into a small creek up stream, and you fill your canteen with water, down stream. Whats going to be in it? Garbage water. That is this, but on such a grander scale.

Interesting, but isn't the pipeline going UNDER the river? Not to mention that the individual I responded to appears to have fallen for the bullshit lie that the pipeline is on reservation land. (Which is what I was pointing out is NOT the case).

[dd614]

You have these typical native racists who cry about white privilege because their lives are a complete failure. Meanwhile at the Bundy standoff a man was killed by the police, but they ignore that. Really these native groups are just a bunch of anarcho-communist losers who blame the white man for all their problems. I have no sympathy for them as they are losers.