Holy Paladin's why are you such a rare breed?

[Grena]

Hey, are you still looking for a holy pala? I've played protadin mostly but due to life not played recently, always had time near end of expansions but thats to late. I'm planning on going holy paladin this time round for a fresh experiance(Was always my off spec) so if you guys still need one let me know, i'd be interested in raiding with you guys.

[Catrpillar]

* * *

Talents:
Bestow Faith - Perfect (Light's hammer for raid fights with a lot of stacking).
Cavalier - I like it too, Rule of Law is better in raids for Tyr's Deliverance and Light of Dawn
Repentance - Good if your group needs CC. Use the 3rd talent as an extra 'interrupt' in M+ too if you don't need to CC
Aura of Mercy - I personally prefer Aura of Devotion, even though my heals are lower, I prefer it because you can mitigate damage before it happens, ex: first boss in BRH does a long cast followed by a huge AoE after the adds spawn, you can just use Devo-AM and your party won't drop below 25-35% Hp, whereas with Mercy they'll drop to 10% and you'll have to slowly get them up with ~5k ticks. I use Mercy for raids if the other Paladins is running Devo or if there's constant raid wide damage like in Dragons of Nightmare.
Holy Avenger - Also my preferred talent in this row, and also why you don't need haste as Holy. You can just pop this and pewpew get everyone up with HShocks.
Judgment of Light - Big nono for me, I always go with Sanctified Wrath. Maybe that might be useful in raids if there's no Protection Paladin but still SW is beast.
Beacon of Lightbringer - I always change this row depending on the fights I'm doing in Mythic EN (Ursoc double beacon, Ilg'ynoth double beacon, dragons of nightmare double beacon, Lightbringer for Nythendra etc...) but for M+ I always go with Beacon of Virtue.

Here's how you can use Virtue to maximize Group heal and keep your tank alive:
Bestow Faith on the tank --> Make sure Holy Shock isn't on cooldown --> Beacon of virtue on the party --> Target the player not affected by beacon if he's taking damage too (virtue targets 4 players) --> Cast a Flash of Light followed immediately by a Holy shock and at that point Bestow Faith will have ticked too, then follow that with a Light of Dawn.
(Prioritize using Holy shock on the tank if he's low ofc).

To sum up: Bestow -> Virtue when bestow is almost done or a bit before that -> Flash of light + Hshock --> Light of Dawn

Also if everyone's low and you need to top them off quickly you can cast:
Flash of light --> Immediately spam Virtue on your target during FoL cast, this will trigger virtue before your FoL.

* * *

<3 to you. This post should be its own thread and then stickied.

[Hyve]

That is correct. I haven't raided EN or dungeons on my Paladin. I haven't even leveled it to 110.

What you find fun isn't the golden standard for everyone. I don't enjoy it. Deal with it.

"I haven't given it a chance, but I hate it already"
- Every whining idiot, circa 2016

[Reica]

"I haven't given it a chance, but I hate it already"
- Every whining idiot, circa 2016

I tried it plenty during the 7.0 patch during WoD in raids, dungeons and pvp. I had to make a choice then which character to level. Decided I would not level my paladin because I already had my doubts about the playstyle.

Good to see everyone contributing to the topic by telling me I'm wrong for playing the game the way I want to. Stay classy MMO-C.

[Melkorr]

"I haven't given it a chance, but I hate it already"
- Every whining idiot, circa 2016

Hahha right? I just hate the incessant whining of some people on MMO. It's like they're just here for that.

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<3 to you. This post should be its own thread and then stickied.

I'm glad it helped you out. You can quote me and post it if you think people could use it too.

[anon5123]

I've seen tons of Holy paladins.

/shrug

Brewmasters are rare, not hpalas.

[Limpnoodle]

Hey, are you still looking for a holy pala? I've played protadin mostly but due to life not played recently, always had time near end of expansions but thats to late. I'm planning on going holy paladin this time round for a fresh experiance(Was always my off spec) so if you guys still need one let me know, i'd be interested in raiding with you guys.

Hi Grena, Sent you a PM

[Nihilan]

In my case, i just enjoy prot too much. I havent gotten around to levelling my holy artifact. I really cant be assed to grind up the AP for it.

I was holy through the entiretly of MoP, the last bit of WoD, and all through Legion alpha/beta, but come release i levelled the pally as prot and pretty much fell in love with the spec. I keep telling myself that i really do mean to start playing holy again, but it probably wont happen. The Legion artifact system has entirely destroyed my willingness to play alts or offspecs.

[Wildpantz]

Plenty of holy in raiding however mythics+ is harder for them no real oh shit button or strong aoe heal

[aente]

Yeah mostly people prefer druids, priests for mythic keystone runs but for raid 1 holy pala doing very good to keep tanks alive.

[Aseral]

Ugh

My mythic guild wont let me roll to my paladin from hunter, to many healers apparently.... but none of them are holy paladins! RIP!

Forever pug healing for now on my paladin, ive debated with my self on finding a guild for him instead, i enjoy my pally more than hunter - first tine since BC i mained something that wasnt my paladin - worst decision i have made all legion lol

[Deleted]

They are not a rare breed. They are taken.

[Marrilaife]

Yeah mostly people prefer druids, priests for mythic keystone runs but for raid 1 holy pala doing very good to keep tanks alive.

Holy paladins are actually fairly good for m+ with specific setup of talents, they can cast some big heals and top people off, I had mostly positive experience with them in dungeons... in raids however... they're common but they don't understand they aren't invited to the raids to spam light of dawn 24/7. You take shamans, monks and druids to spam aoe heals and paladins to spot heal and tank heal. So many just refuse to do this, while they have the best toolkit for the job.

And I think paladins, shamans and druids are popular healers.

I have bad experience with priests in mythic+, especially disc, either they have no clue how to play it or they just have no aoe healing? No idea didn't test the spec myself, but so often I see a priest struggling to keep people alive in the dungeon. While holy paladins don't seem to have this issue, they don't run as much oom either.

Monks are kinda rare (bot healer and tank ones) but that's because their dps spec is finally in a good spot after 2 expansions of "meh". Maybe it's the same with paladins, since ret got buffed they got back to it (and for the corrupted ashbringer).

[Deleted]

GEAR:
You actually need Crit gear, it's our main stat as Holy Paladins, Versatility is good too but I personally prefer mastery.
Looking at your gear, you do need a couple pieces of versatility gear maybe, remember prioritize stats over item level always. I'm at 879 item level but I wear 874 ilvl gear.

Haste sucks, I see that you have a lot of haste and for Holy paladins I think it's terrible, so if you can replace your haste with any other stat that would be a good first step. Haste is good for Retribution but our worst stat as Holy.

Talents:
Bestow Faith - Perfect (Light's hammer for raid fights with a lot of stacking).
Cavalier - I like it too, Rule of Law is better in raids for Tyr's Deliverance and Light of Dawn
Repentance - Good if your group needs CC. Use the 3rd talent as an extra 'interrupt' in M+ too if you don't need to CC
Aura of Mercy - I personally prefer Aura of Devotion, even though my heals are lower, I prefer it because you can mitigate damage before it happens, ex: first boss in BRH does a long cast followed by a huge AoE after the adds spawn, you can just use Devo-AM and your party won't drop below 25-35% Hp, whereas with Mercy they'll drop to 10% and you'll have to slowly get them up with ~5k ticks. I use Mercy for raids if the other Paladins is running Devo or if there's constant raid wide damage like in Dragons of Nightmare.
Holy Avenger - Also my preferred talent in this row, and also why you don't need haste as Holy. You can just pop this and pewpew get everyone up with HShocks.
Judgment of Light - Big nono for me, I always go with Sanctified Wrath. Maybe that might be useful in raids if there's no Protection Paladin but still SW is beast.
Beacon of Lightbringer - I always change this row depending on the fights I'm doing in Mythic EN (Ursoc double beacon, Ilg'ynoth double beacon, dragons of nightmare double beacon, Lightbringer for Nythendra etc...) but for M+ I always go with Beacon of Virtue.

Here's how you can use Virtue to maximize Group heal and keep your tank alive:
Bestow Faith on the tank --> Make sure Holy Shock isn't on cooldown --> Beacon of virtue on the party --> Target the player not affected by beacon if he's taking damage too (virtue targets 4 players) --> Cast a Flash of Light followed immediately by a Holy shock and at that point Bestow Faith will have ticked too, then follow that with a Light of Dawn.
(Prioritize using Holy shock on the tank if he's low ofc).

To sum up: Bestow -> Virtue when bestow is almost done or a bit before that -> Flash of light + Hshock --> Light of Dawn

Also if everyone's low and you need to top them off quickly you can cast:
Flash of light --> Immediately spam Virtue on your target during FoL cast, this will trigger virtue before your FoL.

Also make sure the players in your party aren't very far from each other otherwise virtue won't reach them.
Don't forget to use your cooldowns often and wisely in M+, HA and SW with virtue gives HShock huge crits and you'll top everyone off in no time.

I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any more questions.

Double beacon is good.

Lightbringer on Ursoc for instance is better.

You heal the other tank without the beacon. LoD the raid and Holy Prism the bear(AoE healing the raid) and then just single the tank without the beacon or actively tanking the boss that has it.

You can shift it around if you're into that on moments when they are full(-ish).

But yeah, I just wanted to point that out.

The Lightbringer talent adds 30% extra healing on LoD along with range IIRC, which is a great boost to raid healing for the moments it needs some of your tickles.
Bear in mind though. Hpally strength, is not AoE healing the raid, I wouldn't reccomend anyone to solely focus on it.

You can if you choose double beacons obviously but it isn't our strength. Leave it to the monks/druids and shaman occasionally.

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Plenty of holy in raiding however mythics+ is harder for them no real oh shit button or strong aoe heal

One of the stronger healers actually. Beacon of Virtue and knowing when the dmg comes in, is your strength.

And honestly, going 10+ you already know where the dmg comes in.

[Gilthresa]

Yeah I have no issues healing +10s that's simply a learn to play issue

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Holy paladins are actually fairly good for m+ with specific setup of talents, they can cast some big heals and top people off, I had mostly positive experience with them in dungeons... in raids however... they're common but they don't understand they aren't invited to the raids to spam light of dawn 24/7. You take shamans, monks and druids to spam aoe heals and paladins to spot heal and tank heal. So many just refuse to do this, while they have the best toolkit for the job.

And I think paladins, shamans and druids are popular healers.

I have bad experience with priests in mythic+, especially disc, either they have no clue how to play it or they just have no aoe healing? No idea didn't test the spec myself, but so often I see a priest struggling to keep people alive in the dungeon. While holy paladins don't seem to have this issue, they don't run as much oom either.

Monks are kinda rare (bot healer and tank ones) but that's because their dps spec is finally in a good spot after 2 expansions of "meh". Maybe it's the same with paladins, since ret got buffed they got back to it (and for the corrupted ashbringer).

You know light of dawn is a smart heal right and heals people who are damaged? Not asking a paladin to use light of dawn is legit retarded.. and I don't know what your talking about because you can't spam it... it has a cooldown (12 seconds at that, not short)- and if they are doing nothing between LoD cooldown then you have other issues. You also realise that light of dawn healing transfers to beacon right? Nope? Okay then

According to you though I should just stop casting one of my strongest heals because other healers have aoe healing? Oh shit better stop healing the tank because other healers can do that to... fucking smh

[Marrilaife]

Oh shit better stop healing the tank because other healers can do that to... fucking smh

That's exactly the issue, most holy paladins I raided with don't heal the tank... they just slap the beacon there and expect it to do all the job. It's not TBC anymore when beacon doubles your healing. If you talent into double beacon and put it on both tanks it's like... 20% of your raid healing going into each tank? But I assume you know this already, just they seem to not realize it.

Every time I checked my death log (that wasn't an obvious tank mistake or raid mechanic gone wrong) it was like 20 seconds of nothing except rejuv, riptide, lifebloom and beacon heals. You can use light of dawn as long as you actually heal the tank in between... but they don't...

I don't know what are you so mighty offended about, I didn't say anything about *your* healing just holy paladins I raided with. I said the ones I did dungeons with did fine, maybe because there are less targets to heal, or they were just better at their class. No idea. Also the dungeon ones used beacon of virtue usually, if you time it well it should cover times of high damage and then cool down during the times of less damage, so it should work well with the pace of dungeon pulls.

It's actually a big surprise to me because in WOD I've seen a lot of holy paladins struggle in dungeons (before dungeons were outgeared and healing trivialized), I thought removing holy radiance would make them worse in dungeons, but they're actually better these days. Or maybe it's just "anecdotal evidence".

Ok, maybe I worded myself badly but raiding holy paladins need to get out of the mentality "put beacons on the tanks and heal everyone else", beacon is not as effective as it used to be. Also glorious times of MOP and late HFC are long behind us when tank could just heal himself (OP monk guards, huge death strikes, 5-stack words of glory etc. are no longer the case). If you have a setup of druid, shaman, monk and paladin tell me who is the best to actually heal the tank?

I saw people saying shamans which I don't think is true, I think paladins have better tools for that. For example bestow faith heals for big amounts and you can time it with some tank mechanic so it lands just after the damage and tops him off. Also for some reason they seem to run oom less than other healers.

[Maculo]

GEAR:
You actually need Crit gear, it's our main stat as Holy Paladins, Versatility is good too but I personally prefer mastery.
Looking at your gear, you do need a couple pieces of versatility gear maybe, remember prioritize stats over item level always. I'm at 879 item level but I wear 874 ilvl gear.

Haste sucks, I see that you have a lot of haste and for Holy paladins I think it's terrible, so if you can replace your haste with any other stat that would be a good first step. Haste is good for Retribution but our worst stat as Holy.

Talents:
Bestow Faith - Perfect (Light's hammer for raid fights with a lot of stacking).
Cavalier - I like it too, Rule of Law is better in raids for Tyr's Deliverance and Light of Dawn
Repentance - Good if your group needs CC. Use the 3rd talent as an extra 'interrupt' in M+ too if you don't need to CC
Aura of Mercy - I personally prefer Aura of Devotion, even though my heals are lower, I prefer it because you can mitigate damage before it happens, ex: first boss in BRH does a long cast followed by a huge AoE after the adds spawn, you can just use Devo-AM and your party won't drop below 25-35% Hp, whereas with Mercy they'll drop to 10% and you'll have to slowly get them up with ~5k ticks. I use Mercy for raids if the other Paladins is running Devo or if there's constant raid wide damage like in Dragons of Nightmare.
Holy Avenger - Also my preferred talent in this row, and also why you don't need haste as Holy. You can just pop this and pewpew get everyone up with HShocks.
Judgment of Light - Big nono for me, I always go with Sanctified Wrath. Maybe that might be useful in raids if there's no Protection Paladin but still SW is beast.
Beacon of Lightbringer - I always change this row depending on the fights I'm doing in Mythic EN (Ursoc double beacon, Ilg'ynoth double beacon, dragons of nightmare double beacon, Lightbringer for Nythendra etc...) but for M+ I always go with Beacon of Virtue.

Here's how you can use Virtue to maximize Group heal and keep your tank alive:
Bestow Faith on the tank --> Make sure Holy Shock isn't on cooldown --> Beacon of virtue on the party --> Target the player not affected by beacon if he's taking damage too (virtue targets 4 players) --> Cast a Flash of Light followed immediately by a Holy shock and at that point Bestow Faith will have ticked too, then follow that with a Light of Dawn.
(Prioritize using Holy shock on the tank if he's low ofc).

To sum up: Bestow -> Virtue when bestow is almost done or a bit before that -> Flash of light + Hshock --> Light of Dawn

Also if everyone's low and you need to top them off quickly you can cast:
Flash of light --> Immediately spam Virtue on your target during FoL cast, this will trigger virtue before your FoL.

Also make sure the players in your party aren't very far from each other otherwise virtue won't reach them.
Don't forget to use your cooldowns often and wisely in M+, HA and SW with virtue gives HShock huge crits and you'll top everyone off in no time.

I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any more questions.

Thank you and the other posters for the advice. I started a holy paladin recently, and I have been having trouble picking a talent setup for heroic and mythic dungeons. I am especially thankful for your Beacon of Virtue explanation. Initially, I thought the emergency group heal would be bubble and light of the maryr over the group.

[Vuagnon]

This question is like why are all good boys already married?