British parliament members urge Obama to halt hacking suspect’s US extradition

[Independent voter]

I wonder how severe his Asperger's is? We call Asperger's autism in the US these days.

Federal prisons aren't so bad in the US and that's where he'll go. They'll put him with shady bankers, tax cheats, etc.

I'd still work out and buff up before I went just in case you get the wrong cell mate.




http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...xtradition-us/



This week, culture minister Matt Hancock and more than 100 fellow MPs (Members of Parliament) have signed a letter calling on president Barack Obama to block Lauri Love's extradition to the US to face trial over the alleged hacking of the US missile defence agency, the FBI, and America's central bank.

Love—an Asperger's syndrome sufferer from Stradishall, Suffolk—was told in September at a Westminster Magistrates' Court hearing that he was fit to be extradited to the US to face trial in that country. The 31-year-old faces up to 99 years in prison in the US if convicted. According to his lawyers, Love has said he fears for his life.

Hacking allegations against Love stem from the Anonymous-related #OpLastResort hack in 2013. The initiative targeted the US Army, the US Federal Reserve, the FBI, NASA, and the Missile Defense Agency in retaliation over the tragic suicide of Aaron Swartz as the hacktivist infamously awaited trial. Love is accused of participating through SQL injection attacks,


Love's legal team have argued that their client's case is similar to that of British citizen Gary McKinnon, whose extradition to the US was blocked in 2012 by then home secretary Theresa May. At the time, May introduced a forum bar to stop extradition in cases where the defendants' human rights were said to be at risk.

Hancock, who is the Love family's local MP, signed the letter alongside a cross-party coalition of 104 other politicos. The missive to Obama asks:

The UK has prosecuted at least twelve computer hackers who have hacked US-based computer systems. Indeed, Mr Love would be the first UK-based computer hacker to be extradited and denied the opportunity to face a full prosecution in the UK. The UK criminal justice system is equipped to bring justice through sentencing and rehabilitating people who are adjudged to have committed these crimes.

Many of these twelve cases did not involve individuals who have significant mental health issues, nor Asperger Syndrome and were not at a high-risk of suicide, yet they were not extradited. We would like to ask, why then is the United States insistent on Mr Love’s extradition despite the UK having a proven track record of appropriately sentencing and rehabilitating individuals who have committed computer hacking offences against the US?

The MPs seek an "act of compassion" from the US president by urging him in his final days of office to personally intervene in the case, kill the extradition order, and allow it to be heard in the UK.

"You would be acting to prevent this vulnerable and mentally unwell man from being placed in a situation where he will most probably take his own life," the letter states.

Prime minister May—when recently quizzed in parliament by McKinnon campaigner and MP David Burrowes—said of the forum bar: "We subsequently changed the legal position on that, so it is now a matter for the courts. There are certain parameters that the courts look at in terms of the extradition decision and that is then passed to the home secretary. It is for the courts to determine the human rights aspects of any case that comes forward."

She added: "It was right, I think, to introduce the forum bar to make sure there was that challenge for cases here in the United Kingdom, as to whether they should be held here in the United Kingdom, but the legal process is very clear and the home secretary is part of that legal process."

[Flutterguy]

I don't trust the Brits to punish criminals. I hope Obama lets the extradition go through.

[Wyrt]

I don't trust the Brits to punish criminals. I hope Obama lets the extradition go through.

They'll send him to Australia.

[Xanjori]

We call Asperger's autism in the US these days.."

When I see ignorant shit like this I can understand why they think his human rights may be at risk.

Aspergers is on the autism scale, it is not *just* autism.

[Deleted]

Asperger's doesn't exist anymore, as of the DSM 5.

I think it's a good idea to have people punished outside of their home country for international crimes. I wouldn't trust Russia or the majority of the Eastern world to punish their own hackers, for instance.

[Deleted]

Good luck with that. The British Government has crawled so far up the USes ass that it is a miracle that he was not feed something radioactive or had a accident.

He will get extradited to the US were he will get a Show Trial at a Kangaroo Court with a American Jury upset that the foreigner made the US look bad. Soon afterwards the US will lock him up in Solitary like they do so many other Mentally Ill Prisoners and face Mental Torture, until he dies or bashes his Skull against a wall.

[Deleted]

The extradition is broken and people have been put at risk due to it allowing what would be a civil suit in this country be used to extradite someone to America because there it may be a crime but this does not apply other way around.

The case of the British person running the old tv links website highlights this.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...legal-uk.shtml

Richard O'Dwyer, the guy who ran the site, was a student building an interesting project over in the UK. However, the US Department of Justice decided that he was not only a hardened criminal, but one who needed to be tried on US soil. Thus, it began extradition procedures. Even worse, nearly identical sites in the UK had already been found legal multiple times -- with the court noting that having links to some infringing content was certainly not criminal copyright infringement. That makes things even more ridiculous, because extradition is only supposed to be allowed for activities that are criminal in both the US and the UK.

[Kallisto]

The extradition is broken and people have been put at risk due to it allowing what would be a civil suit in this country be used to extradite someone to America because there it may be a crime but this does not apply other way around.

The case of the British person running the old tv links website highlights this.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...legal-uk.shtml

Extradition treaties between the UK and US have been messed up for a while now. A couple of decades even. Parliament was so eager to get a treaty sorted they signed it into law before it even reached congress. Who looked at it, looked that it could mean many of their own as well as their own constituents (especially in Irish American strongholds) could be hit with it due to these individuals giving financial and material support to IRA groups that it has been kept in limbo since then. Essentially having a one way treaty in place.

[Skroe]

The UK / US extradition treaty is an absolute breach of human rights and should have been looked at years ago, its in my opinion one of the vilest things the courts can dish out, they are British and as such they'll be tried under our laws. And not those of a system so barbarically corrupt its basically a business venture.

However the UK being the UK I couldnt say for sure if they'll manage it.

Taking a steaming crap in the woods is a violation of human rights when Europe defines it so absurdly liberally.

Wanna know why the European dominated ICC is on the brink of collapse? Because it chose its battles very very poorly.

The guy committed a crime against Americans. He gets to do the time in a prison operated by Americans. Maybe next time he can hack Sweden or some other country where he can have computer and stuffed animals in his cell.

[Mehrunes]

Taking a steaming crap in the woods is a violation of human rights when Europe defines it so absurdly liberally.

Wanna know why the European dominated ICC is on the brink of collapse? Because it chose its battles very very poorly.

The guy committed a crime against Americans. He gets to do the time in a prison operated by Americans. Maybe next time he can hack Sweden or some other country where he can have computer and stuffed animals in his cell.

Nice hyperbole about human rights in Europe. Especially ridiculous in context of UK. Also, not sure what ICC has to do with the article, but I suspect one of the reasons it's on your supposed "brink of collapse" is US' total lack of cooperation with the project and them thinking they are so above the concept that they even pull shit like Hague Invasion Act. As for the criminal in question, he's a UK citizen and the crime has been committed on UK soil. 2 reasons for him getting to do the time in a prison operated by the British. Also, just gotta lol at your jab at European prison system when coming from an American. Your prison system is a cesspit.

[Kalis]

The guy committed a crime against Americans. He gets to do the time in a prison operated by Americans.

He should only do time if he broke UK law and should serve any prison sentence in the UK.

A person should not be subject to foreign laws if he never left his home country, it is a ridiculous position.

[Techno-Druid]

I wonder how severe his Asperger's is? We call Asperger's autism in the US these days.

Federal prisons aren't so bad in the US and that's where he'll go. They'll put him with shady bankers, tax cheats, etc.

I'd still work out and buff up before I went just in case you get the wrong cell mate.




http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...xtradition-us/



This week, culture minister Matt Hancock and more than 100 fellow MPs (Members of Parliament) have signed a letter calling on president Barack Obama to block Lauri Love's extradition to the US to face trial over the alleged hacking of the US missile defence agency, the FBI, and America's central bank.

Love—an Asperger's syndrome sufferer from Stradishall, Suffolk—was told in September at a Westminster Magistrates' Court hearing that he was fit to be extradited to the US to face trial in that country. The 31-year-old faces up to 99 years in prison in the US if convicted. According to his lawyers, Love has said he fears for his life.

Hacking allegations against Love stem from the Anonymous-related #OpLastResort hack in 2013. The initiative targeted the US Army, the US Federal Reserve, the FBI, NASA, and the Missile Defense Agency in retaliation over the tragic suicide of Aaron Swartz as the hacktivist infamously awaited trial. Love is accused of participating through SQL injection attacks,


Love's legal team have argued that their client's case is similar to that of British citizen Gary McKinnon, whose extradition to the US was blocked in 2012 by then home secretary Theresa May. At the time, May introduced a forum bar to stop extradition in cases where the defendants' human rights were said to be at risk.

Hancock, who is the Love family's local MP, signed the letter alongside a cross-party coalition of 104 other politicos. The missive to Obama asks:

The UK has prosecuted at least twelve computer hackers who have hacked US-based computer systems. Indeed, Mr Love would be the first UK-based computer hacker to be extradited and denied the opportunity to face a full prosecution in the UK. The UK criminal justice system is equipped to bring justice through sentencing and rehabilitating people who are adjudged to have committed these crimes.

Many of these twelve cases did not involve individuals who have significant mental health issues, nor Asperger Syndrome and were not at a high-risk of suicide, yet they were not extradited. We would like to ask, why then is the United States insistent on Mr Love’s extradition despite the UK having a proven track record of appropriately sentencing and rehabilitating individuals who have committed computer hacking offences against the US?

The MPs seek an "act of compassion" from the US president by urging him in his final days of office to personally intervene in the case, kill the extradition order, and allow it to be heard in the UK.

"You would be acting to prevent this vulnerable and mentally unwell man from being placed in a situation where he will most probably take his own life," the letter states.

Prime minister May—when recently quizzed in parliament by McKinnon campaigner and MP David Burrowes—said of the forum bar: "We subsequently changed the legal position on that, so it is now a matter for the courts. There are certain parameters that the courts look at in terms of the extradition decision and that is then passed to the home secretary. It is for the courts to determine the human rights aspects of any case that comes forward."

She added: "It was right, I think, to introduce the forum bar to make sure there was that challenge for cases here in the United Kingdom, as to whether they should be held here in the United Kingdom, but the legal process is very clear and the home secretary is part of that legal process."

As an autistic person, this is what pisses me off about this whole situation, just because this guy has high-functioning autism, doesn't mean he should get a lighter sentence or not be held accountable for his actions.

[Kalis]

As an autistic person, this is what pisses me off about this whole situation, just because this guy has high-functioning autism, doesn't mean he should get a lighter sentence or not be held accountable for his actions.

Mental capacity should be taken into account in any sentencing.

However the main issue with this story is the abuse of the extradition treaty by the US, these sorts of cases aren't what the treaty was intended for and the US is going against the spirit of the treaty. This isn't the first time that the American judicial system has done this either, it has already pissed off Westminster previously for a similar case.

The UK has the same rights under the Treaty as the US, yet the UK has never pushed for the extradition of US citizens that committed offences in the US, as far as we are concerned they should be subject to US law, not UK law.

[Xanjori]

No, he's correct. DSM V eliminated the specific diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome in favor of changing autism diagnoses to a scale based on severity.

Im not sure a heavily flawed and criticised book is a good basis to state a case upon.

[Medusa Cascade]

If the situation was reversed the yanks would block it.

[Kalis]

If the situation was reversed the yanks would block it.

They probably wouldn't, otherwise Westminster would come under immense pressure to scrap the treaty and the Yanks (ab)use it more than we do.

[Xanjori]

Your personal feelings aside, it's still the standard in the US.

I feel you're just making my argument for me at this stage.

[Xanjori]

Because in your non-professional opinion you feel it's bad because well other people say the book is bad, so I guess everything in the book is a big problem.

The British Psychological Society stated in its June 2011 response to DSM-5 draft versions, that it had "more concerns than plaudits".[63] It criticized proposed diagnoses as "clearly based largely on social norms, with 'symptoms' that all rely on subjective judgements... not value-free, but rather reflect[ing] current normative social expectations", noting doubts over the reliability, validity, and value of existing criteria, that personality disorders were not normed on the general population, and that "not otherwise specified" categories covered a "huge" 30% of all personality disorders.

I didn't realise I worked for the British Psychological Society. I think I'm clearly due a pay-rise if that is the case.

Maybe a bit of research into who criticised a book is useful before you start sprouting "Well in your non-professional opinion" statements, it might save a lot of egg on face.

[Xanjori]

There's no egg on my face whatsoever and you're being rather overconfident for someone who is so ignorant, but that's the typical of ignorance. We're talking specifically about Autism Spectrum Disorder subsuming Asperger's Syndrome. You gave me a quote about personality disorders, which are a different category entirely.

So far about all you've got is "BOOK BAD." It's funny because prior to DSM V Asperger's was regarded as separate from autism. Even acknowledging it as high functioning autism is a result of DSM V. You're using the viewpoint of DSM V (as does ICD 10 in this case), while still quibbling over the specific label used. I'm well aware of the criticisms of DSM V, but in acknowledging Asperger's is on the autism scale you're basically arguing against something you've adopted on this issue. It'd be one thing if you wanted to argue they were completely different, as they were considered to be in the past, but all you're doing is whining about the name, which is pretty much a nonissue.

So pointing out a book has flws and has been heavily criticised (including the heads of task forces for previous editions) and other reputable foundations is saying "BOOK BAD" in your eyes? I mean your autism is heavily showing through here to be honest, you are incapable of seperating what has actually been said from what you think has been implied.

You can claim I am talking from a position of ignorance but every post you've made has proven that you haven't even understood my argument or what I am saying. You have a serious skill at making up strawmanning someones argument and then tackling it, I'm not overly surprised by this as you suffer from the same form of autism my GF does and she does the exact same.

My statement remains true, the book has been quite heavily criticised, and when dealing with a British subject and whether or not he should be be extradited to the US to face trial then British health boards are going to be the ones leaning upon the Government about whether or not this is the right choice. I mean once again your inability to look beyond face value of wanting to defend this book so heavily is clear, you are going on about US values when those aren't the things that are important here, the British Government can move to block the extradition and it's British values that are applied to this man. That's the simple and obvious bottom line.

Maybe next time don't be so keen to rush in and go "American product best!" (see, I can say dumb and oversimplified shit too) and you might actually be able to form a cognitive argument.

[Xanjori]

The only argument you've made in favor of your position that it's ignorant to refer to Asperger's Syndrome as autism is purely fallacious because even as the DSM, you, and the ICD all now refer to Asperger's as being on the autism spectrum, which suggests tacit approval of at least one change in DSM V.

Im just ignoring the rest of your shit now, because it's simply not worth responding to, your inability to stay on track or pay attention to the argument is getting tiresome.

Yes Aspergers has and always been part of the Autism spectrum, this isn't some new development, the point is that Aspergers is quite different to what is usually associated with Autism, sufferers of Aspergers are usually above average intelligence and do not suffer learning disabilities, their "disability" is related to other people, interactions, emotions and so forth. To blanket Aspergers as "Autism" alone sends the entirely wrong message, and when it comes to dealing with extradition and imprisonment it's important to provide a distinction, especially when it's the US prison system that is in question. That's the point here, the core of the matter, it's recognition of the fact that this person may not recieve the attention/treatment/handling they require while in a US prison.