Holy Paladin - Stat Weight 7.1

[Elix]

Hi everyone! Apologies in advance if this topic is covered elsewhere. I've tried to find a dedicated post about it and failed. Miserably.

Do we have a definitive breakdown of the stat weights for 7.1? I'm seeing a lot of talk of Mastery overtaking Crit while some other resources still point to the original Crit -> Master -> Versatility -> Haste.

If this information is available anywhere, I'd be forever grateful.

Thank you!

[Nedralixx]

It's Crit > Mastery >= Versa > Haste . Nothing has changed.

[satanicsuture]

I'd take that with a grain of salt.

Crit is god, no matter what you do. Mastery however is BiS only if you're within 10 yards of the target you heal at all times (or if he's near your beacon if you have that talent). If you're consistently healing from a distance, Mastery becomes our weakest stat, even behind haste.

The only way to assess this is to try and keep an eye open during your play, either record it or check logs afterwards. If you can stay close to your targets, Mastery is strong. If you're still learning and can't move with total efficiency, I wouldn't recommend stacking full mastery after crit, but try a balance, with around 5-7% versatility.

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Oh forgot to mention,

The part with mastery overtaking Crit has to do with crit breakpoints. In the future, with a setbonus once you reach 42.5% crit you don't really need more crit because Holy shock will have a 100% chance. The 2p setbonus adds a 15% chance for HS to Crit, and it's calculated after the default stats. This means your baseline is 42.5, HS has a double crit chance totalling 85%, and the 2p bonus gives it a flat 100%.

So in essence, after 42.5% Critrating becomes pretty useless to stack because HS is one of your most used spells. This is when Mastery/Versatility/Haste takes over.

[Elix]

Excellent. Just checking. Thank you both for replying. We can close this one now. <3

[Hawg]

The terminology for this thread is wrong. The posts are all talking about stat prioritization. Stat weights on the other hand would include the relative numerical weight of each. For example INT 1.3, Crit .82, Vers .73, Mas .72, Haste .70. (Totally made up example, the actual stat weights you should use seem to be a mystery.)

[satanicsuture]

The terminology for this thread is wrong. The posts are all talking about stat prioritization. Stat weights on the other hand would include the relative numerical weight of each. For example INT 1.3, Crit .82, Vers .73, Mas .72, Haste .70. (Totally made up example, the actual stat weights you should use seem to be a mystery.)

Probably cause for healers, it's not as easy as with DPS. That's why most simcrafters just give up on stat weights for healers and they just don't do much work on it. When all 4 stats change in numbers just because your tank decides to walk 10 yards because "it's easier to tank on this side" it makes simulations impossible to make accurate.

That's why it's easier for healers to aim for a certain stat and breakpoint.

There are a few simulations on stat weights based on static locations, and how Mastery changes in value based on the distance to the target, but I've used them more to understand the falloff in mastery rather than aim for a certain stat weight.

[Hawg]

Well the problem with not using statweights, and only using stat priorities, is that people often make uninformed decisions about what gear is better. All of the attempts I have seen to arrive at statweights have reached conclusions where Crit, Mastery, & Vers are all relatively close together. So that means that stat priorities are more vulnerable to be misleading. (For example using those fictional stat weights I used above, its entirely possible that 5ilvl upgrade with Mas and Haste could be "better" than a Crit & vers piece depending on the point allocations.)

But I agree that the lack of ability to sim healing is the reason why we don't have readily available stat weights. Add to that the fact that your stat weights change depending on your current gear, and the break points of things like crit, and its easy to see that trying to arrive at a "one size fits all" stat weights is a tricky undertaking.

[satanicsuture]

That's why healers need to have a critical mind when it comes to gear. I test almost every piece I get and have 3 out of 4 bags filled with just gear and trinkets. I'd say there is no size fits all, except getting crit above 40% at all costs.

And if you're intested, the Karazhan cloak with a socket, has almost equal performance to an 880 Crit/Haste cloak. It's a bit less in terms of healing but the crits double the missing heal.

Stat weights for DPS are easy. If you have X of this stat, getting more of Y will give you more DPS.

For healers, and Paladins in particular.. If you have X, and you're standing at Y, and you have Z mana at the end of the fight, while R takes this amount of damage, getting more of ZX stat will net more performance. It's impossible to sim due to unknown variables. Healers need to understand what the stats do and how it affects the performance of the heals.

But hey, that's why we have these forums right?

[cremor]

The Wowhead Holy Paladin guide has a link to a spreadsheet where you can calculate your own stat weights.
Direct link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[HPLathus]

Hi everyone! Apologies in advance if this topic is covered elsewhere. I've tried to find a dedicated post about it and failed. Miserably.

Do we have a definitive breakdown of the stat weights for 7.1? I'm seeing a lot of talk of Mastery overtaking Crit while some other resources still point to the original Crit -> Master -> Versatility -> Haste.

If this information is available anywhere, I'd be forever grateful.

Thank you!

@Elix

Use this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...QinFXagTo/edit

[satanicsuture]

The Wowhead Holy Paladin guide has a link to a spreadsheet where you can calculate your own stat weights.
Direct link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Yeah but again, that goes against everything we've been saying. Mastery is the strongest after crit if you're within 10 yards, and it falls to the worst afterwards. Your playstyle and positioning will affect the gear you choose. Would I pick a Crit/Vers trinket for Ursoc? No, I'd even skip some crit just to increase my Mastery because it's more valuable in that type of fight. Would I do the same for Nythendra? Definitely not.

[cremor]

That's why you can enter a mastery effectiveness percentage in the spreadsheet. So you can get your stat weights for all situations.

[Hawg]

The spreadsheets are certainly better than nothing, and really they are the best thing we have available now, so that is the tool we should be using.

But that being said, they are a far cry from simulation tools like simcraft. The spreadsheets are formula based, they are static with the exception of the input variables. The simulation tools on the other hand are not just formula based, they actually attempt to recreate a fight by running thousands of variations on the programmed scenario so that they can see the interplay of RNG on top of RNG and come up with a most probable outcome.

It's too bad we don't have that tool. But at the end of the day it's not killing us. The spreadsheets probably get us to 97% of the correct answer, the simulations to 99.2%. Given my own personal human margins of error, that is certainly good enough.

[satanicsuture]

That's why you can enter a mastery effectiveness percentage in the spreadsheet. So you can get your stat weights for all situations.

And you again, don't understand why a spreadsheet and statweights won't be accurate. The only thing you can input in a spreadsheet is a static situation, when a holy paladin is a reactive playstyle.

To put it in simple terms, you would have to change the stat effectiveness in the spreadsheet a couple of times per fight and atleast once per every boss. Not to mention, you would still have to take a look at your character, your last tier talent as well as your playstyle.

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The spreadsheets are certainly better than nothing, and really they are the best thing we have available now, so that is the tool we should be using.

But that being said, they are a far cry from simulation tools like simcraft. The spreadsheets are formula based, they are static with the exception of the input variables. The simulation tools on the other hand are not just formula based, they actually attempt to recreate a fight by running thousands of variations on the programmed scenario so that they can see the interplay of RNG on top of RNG and come up with a most probable outcome.

It's too bad we don't have that tool. But at the end of the day it's not killing us. The spreadsheets probably get us to 97% of the correct answer, the simulations to 99.2%. Given my own personal human margins of error, that is certainly good enough.

Neither one would be even remotely that accurate. A simulation for healers isn't possible because there are too many variables, as I've listed previously. A DPS can simply do their rotation, avoid X if it spawns near, move away from Y because it's a set timer mechanic.

As a healer, the only thing you can simulate is maximum output based on gear if you heal constantly as well as time before you go OOM while healing constantly. You can't simulate if mastery will be stronger than versatility because you could be moving 20 yards from some idiot that runs into Nythendras breath. Your stat weights would depend far too much on the raid around you and how you move, than a theoretical model.

[Hawg]

Why wouldn't that be good enough? ("That" being a simulation that compares your best performance doing a rotation in terms of hps and time till oom.). I can't think of a scenario where the gear that gives you the best result in that simulation scenario wouldn't also give you the best result in the IRL scenarios you described.

[Yurimeta]

@Elix

Use this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...QinFXagTo/edit

Just want to say that even though this has been updated for Karazhan it is missing the trinket off of Nightbane called Ethereal Urn

Shown here:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=142166/ethereal-urn