Need help healing Mythic 7+ and higher

[mob1lejunkie]

I'd appreciate some help in healing Mythic 7+ and higher.

I find I can heal Heroic raids without an issue but when it comes to Mythic+ I start having a hard time. I can struggle through Maw, Eye and Vault @ +7 but pelters in Neltharion's Lair and trash between first and second boss in Blackrook Hold gives me way too much trouble. Few weeks ago I couldn't heal +4 Neltharion's Lair with Teeming affix.

In trash my general strategy is to use Holy Avenger and Artifact ability and if the pulls looks big I'll also use Avenging Wrath.

This is my character I use the currently selected talents. I tried Beacon of Virtue a bit but I went back to Beacon of Lightbringer. Before anyone comments on lack of Versatility I never seem to get Versatility gear I keep getting Crit gear all the time.

Are my talents wrong for Mythic+? Should I record logs next time?

[Arayaa]

Your gear looks to be more than adequate for +7 and higher.

I would suggest that you give sanctified wrath a go in dungeons instead of Judgment of Light, even with the legendary ring. It will give you much higher HPS under cooldowns via the reduced holy shock CD. Judgment of Light loses a lot of value because you only have 4-5 damaged targets actually hitting the target at a time at best (usually lower).

You also mentioned that you tried Beacon of Virtue but ended up switching back to Lightbringer. I would still highly recommend Virtue if you are having issues with AoE healing (such as the pelters and scorpions in Neltharion's Lair). It will make you use more mana and reduce your tank healing capabilities, but it gives us the extra healing where we need it.

Logs would certainly help for identifying any issues. If you are playing correctly (even with the setup you had), +7 healing should not be too intense at all. This probably means that you have been pugging with groups that aren't so good and have a tank which is taking excessive damage and/or DPS also taking significant amounts of avoidable damage (e.g. Volcanic).

[codywankanobi]

I've found that Light's Hammer and Holy Prism are handy for some quick AoE heals, particularly if the group is melee heavy. Otherwise trading Judgment of Light for Sanctified Wrath, especially for trash pulls, should see a big boost in healing as it works extremely well with the Holy Avenger talent. I like JoL for boss fights but on trash either the target isn't alive long enough for it to feel really useful or the group isn't all attacking the same target which reduces the benefit it provides.

[Theholypally]

I wouldnt recommend virtue until you get more accustomed to healing recovery style of play with that talent. It is a completely different style of play, and its quite active. I typically don't use it.

For basically all mythic+. even 7+, i use beacon of faith over lightbringer. Typically i use beacon on the tank, and put faith on myself. Ive healed up to and including 10s with beacon of faith with zero issues.

I use holy avenger and sanctified wrath as well, don't bother with JoL imo. On the higher level mythics i would say getting used to the different packs and what damage they are capable of is pretty important, because cycling CDs on trash is more important than on bosses for the most part. Don't hold back CDs either. If you are having trouble, do what you have to do to get through it and try and place what you could have done differently to maybe use less CDs next time around.

Another big factor could be your dps and tank. If they are shit, and take uneccesary damage, it will make everything that much harder especially once you hit the higher keystones. Dps not pulling their weight, not using personal CDs, and not moving out of avoidable damage mechanics and coordinating stuns (on stunnable packs) is a pretty huge deal.

I dont know how long youve been playing holy, but at your item level you should be having no trouble healing even 10 keystones so i think its just familiarity with the different dungeon packs and what you can and cannot do with your CDs along with playing with a mediocre group of people who just like to take way too much damage.

Another trick that is typically frowned upon that i find to be rather useful on occasion is the use of light of the martyr in two ways:

1) Right after you land a flash of light hit light of the martyr for a double heal. I sometimes use that in hairy situations.

2) Bubble and light of the martyr spam. I've done this a few times as well during some emergency "pull through the wall" action.

Outside of that, i still use it but not that frequently. It's still a tool in your toolkit that can be used effectively though and shouldn't be entirely ignored. Oh, don't forget about hand of sacrifice (i save for tanks) and hand of protection (for dps mainly) especially on melee dps taking physical damage because they can attack with that on now.

Naturally, experiences may very...this is just my experience with higher level keystones.

[mob1lejunkie]

I dont know how long youve been playing holy.

Since Legion never healed before. Hopefully I'll improve with practice.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[spikeh]

Talents wise, for high m+ you should take Bestow Faith, Devotion Aura, Holy Avenger and Sanctified Wrath. You can heal +10 and below with any beacon but as you go higher, Beacon of Virtue becomes increasingly mandatory.

The CC tier depends on the affixes and dungeon. Blinding Light is an excellent AoE disorient that can be used to stop many single uninterruptible casts, or mass AoE interrupt.

Use of Aura Mastery to prevent group damage, or even as a tank cooldown.

Cycle your AW and HA during trash pulls and add whatever damage you can.

Try to use the artifact ability before damage comes in, not after. It adds considerable throughput when paired with Virtue.

Light of the Martyr can be the difference between life and death; use sparingly though as it can put you in danger.

With Bestow Faith and Beacon of Virtue, you can anticipate damage by doing BF -> Tyr's -> FoL -> Virtue (same target) -> HS (person w/o beacon) -> FoL.

No matter what you do, if the tank and dps aren't properly handling mechanics, killing priority targets, interrupting casts and stunning then you'll struggle. It's a group effort and requires good coordination and communication.

I recorded my +15 run here which may help you.

[Jeathebelle]

Talents wise, for high m+ you should take Bestow Faith, Devotion Aura, Holy Avenger and Sanctified Wrath. You can heal +10 and below with any beacon but as you go higher, Beacon of Virtue becomes increasingly mandatory.

....

With Bestow Faith and Beacon of Virtue, you can anticipate damage by doing BF -> Tyr's -> FoL -> Virtue (same target) -> HS (person w/o beacon) -> FoL.

Two minor comments:

(1) I think crusader's might is better than Bestow Faith in M+, from +2 to +15 and everything in between. Especially when dealing with tyrannical bosses and extremely tight timers, the dps boost CM provides is invaluable. Obviously BF works, but I don't think it's at all necessary for healing any high end M+, and my view of the goal of hpals in M+ is to do the bare minimum required healing to keep everyone alive, and turn every other spare resource--talents, gcds, etc--into damage.

(2) I disagree with "FoL-> Virtue (same target)". (Assuming you are properly getting the pre-beacon transfer) If you BoV the target you just FoL'd, you heal 4 people with those 2 gcds and guaranteed waste 1 beacon transfer. If you BoV anyone except the person you FoL'd, you have a chance at healing all 5 with the same 2 gcds and not wasting any transfer. Minor point, but if you're minmaxing...

[spikeh]

For BF vs CM, I mainly liked BF for its interaction with BoV. CM adds serious value to AW+/HA+pot. I think all healers in high m+ need to maximise damage, creating interesting decision making.

For (2), good point, your order is more optimal. I can't actually consistently get the pre-transfer especially with HA/haste procs, and it felt more consistent to BoV the same target as the FoL. It also depends on whether any target is going to die; saving people comes ahead of efficiency. :P Feelycraft I know, I will write a WA to track the actual success of pre-beacon transfers.

[mob1lejunkie]

Thanks everyone I did +6 Maw last night with your suggestions it was a lot smoother. My key got upgraded to +8 Vault of Wardens. Any tips on dealing with second boss called Inquisitor? In the past I keep getting disoriented making heals hard.

[Deleted]

you souldnt get disoriented. If you look in the eyes you wont. Just pull the boss towards the closed door where it spawns and kill it there. Every time he teleports away he will come back. Keep facing the boss and you are fine. Use a cast you dont need whenever he uses his ability to lock you spells.

[DanThePaladin]

you souldnt get disoriented. If you look in the eyes you wont. Just pull the boss towards the closed door where it spawns and kill it there. Every time he teleports away he will come back. Keep facing the boss and you are fine. Use a cast you dont need whenever he uses his ability to lock you spells.

A tip here is to use our Dispell.
There is nothing to dispell, but it still counts as a cast and thus it gets a longer CD, you won't feel it however since you don't need to use it ever during that fight and you will always have it off CD for the next time he uses that ability.

[thatfireguy]

A tip here is to use our Dispell.
There is nothing to dispell, but it still counts as a cast and thus it gets a longer CD, you won't feel it however since you don't need to use it ever during that fight and you will always have it off CD for the next time he uses that ability.

Note, if you dispel yourself it doesn't get the increased cooldown
And i find I'm often using dispel anyway, when someone accidentally gets disoriented. So i generally cycle freedom for every second one.

[satanicsuture]

Plenty of good points, however several missed the talents.

I regularely heal +10's (We don't generally go higher cause we just want the 880's :P ) and my talent build is :

Bestow Faith
Rule of Law
Blinding Light
Devotion Aura
Holy Prism
Sanctified Wrath
Beacon of Virtue

I would argue that at +7 or +8, the beacon doesn't really matter that much. Rule of Law is a must if you have a range in your group because I've noticed they don't care where you are positioned, they will just move where they feel like so it's up to you to close the range distance any way you can.

Blinding Light is mandatory. There are many stunnable mobs that use casts you can't interrupt. Blinding Light however, does. You should also use your Hammer as much as you can. A mob stunned for 5 seconds doesn't hit anyone.

Devotion Aura is really strong in 5 man dungeons. Especially if you bring a range or two into the mix. I've had moments when the only ones near the boss is me and the tank, and that gives us both a 10% damage reduction.

Holy Prism is a great aoe snap heal. I would take that over Holy Avenger any day. It's an instant cast, easy to use while moving, does decent healing (not WoD superhero heal but still good) and if you crit while having Virtue up, well you'll see the value.

I have a different style of using Martyr heals, but I do agree it's a good situational tool. I use Bestow Faith on myself then cast Martyr 2-3 times on whoever needs the healing. If you're sure you won't take any damage during that period, the Bestow Faith will instantly top you.

Lastly, the Concave Reflecting Lens or Naglfar Fare are better secondary trinkets for Mythic+ in my opinion. The Vial you have equipped is the first of course, so far I haven't seen a trinket that outperforms it (and I've collected and tested almost every healing trinket bar 1 or 2)

[Saverem]

I'd appreciate some help in healing Mythic 7+ and higher.

I find I can heal Heroic raids without an issue but when it comes to Mythic+ I start having a hard time. I can struggle through Maw, Eye and Vault @ +7 but pelters in Neltharion's Lair and trash between first and second boss in Blackrook Hold gives me way too much trouble. Few weeks ago I couldn't heal +4 Neltharion's Lair with Teeming affix.

In trash my general strategy is to use Holy Avenger and Artifact ability and if the pulls looks big I'll also use Avenging Wrath.

This is my character I use the currently selected talents. I tried Beacon of Virtue a bit but I went back to Beacon of Lightbringer. Before anyone comments on lack of Versatility I never seem to get Versatility gear I keep getting Crit gear all the time.

Are my talents wrong for Mythic+? Should I record logs next time?

I've healed +10 at 867 ilvl, so you shouldn't be having any problems with that gear. I don't think vers is that great for M+. It's good for raiding, but in M+ you'd be better off with mast/haste/crit IMO. You'll want to get those spells off fast and have them hit hard. Mana shouldn't be a concern since you can stop to drink for a few secs in between most pulls.

[Azsune]

I'd appreciate some help in healing Mythic 7+ and higher.

I find I can heal Heroic raids without an issue but when it comes to Mythic+ I start having a hard time. I can struggle through Maw, Eye and Vault @ +7 but pelters in Neltharion's Lair and trash between first and second boss in Blackrook Hold gives me way too much trouble. Few weeks ago I couldn't heal +4 Neltharion's Lair with Teeming affix.

In trash my general strategy is to use Holy Avenger and Artifact ability and if the pulls looks big I'll also use Avenging Wrath.

This is my character I use the currently selected talents. I tried Beacon of Virtue a bit but I went back to Beacon of Lightbringer. Before anyone comments on lack of Versatility I never seem to get Versatility gear I keep getting Crit gear all the time.

Are my talents wrong for Mythic+? Should I record logs next time?

I have healed mythic+ up to 10. I did my first m10 when I was around 855 ilvl equip and around 865-870 avg ilvl. I have really bad luck with getting crit gear myself which is why my equip was so low compared to my highest.

For talents I do change them based on the dungeon.
In m+ I feel like Crusader's Might is a must take as it helps with your DPS too much and bestow faith isn't that great of a heal.
Cavalier for the next tier is pretty much a must to keep up with chain pulls on faster tanks.
Fist of Justice and Blinding Light are both really good
Devotion aura is probably the best but when overflowing is a think I do switch to Aura of Mercy to help mange it.
Holy Avenger is an amazing cool down. I try to pop cool downs on trash to help with pulls this just adds one and on boss fights with wings up you deal some pretty awesome burst.
Sanctified Wrath is really the only choice here. In raids Judgement of Light is really strong.
For beacons this is where I change depending on instances the most. Faith I feel isn't to strong in M+ even with legendary shoulders procing from having the 2nd beacon on you. Lightbringer is the strongest for heavy tank healing. It makes your Light of the Dawn if it hits the whole group into a strong tank heal. The last choice Beacon of Virtue is great for when there is a lot of aoe damage. You mentioned pelters giving you trouble with Virtue I do not need to pop any cooldowns on that pull unless it's a 10. I normally do if someone dips a bit lower then I'd like.

You also have a lot of haste 11.6%. Haste is our weakest stat. When I got rid of almost all my haste the difference in healing was noticeable. I also feel like mastery is stronger then versatility due to how much closer you stand to your group then you do in raids. But I try to keep an even balance between them which seems impossible when the game just gives you mastery.

Remember to always keep holy shock on cool down is one of the problems I see a lot of paladins do have when you look at logs. If everyone is full hp dps with it and crusader strikes to reset cd.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Were you posting this during Teeming/Necrotic? That was a tough combo for anyone. Not impossible, but definitely tough. Required some coordination between tank and healer around dropping stacks, kiting, etc. As tank I'm telling you no healer should be expected to heal through 30 stacks of necrotic, and that was easy to hit with teeming if the tank wasn't doing his job.

Raging/Volcanic should be at least a little easier.