Are Paladins the "control" class for Legion?

[Hawg]

So far in this expansion I've found patch notes and hotfix notes to be a bit of a disappointment. With a couple of small exceptions there have been hardly any changes to any of the three Pally specs since Legion launch. Comparatively it seems like every other class has undergone a ton of tweaks.

It makes me wonder if we are the control that Blizzard is using to balance the other classes? Did Blizzard chose us as the yardstick by which to measure the performance of other classes, and that's why they are for the most part leaving us alone? If so, is this a good thing?

[Mierzei]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And we ain't broke, at least prots.

[Merie]

Ret has had issues since Beta and Blizzard barely raised a finger to address it. There were more posts in the ret thread than there was for the Demon Hunter specs and all the spec got was silence. After launch ret got a single hotfix buff long after release and that was that. Nothing was done for the mechanics that weren't working or the talents that were unviable. Ultimately the best news for Ret has been that Blizzard only broken one of the talents that was actually working. They had initially wanted to break two.

[Moozart]

Ret has had issues since Beta and Blizzard barely raised a finger to address it. There were more posts in the ret thread than there was for the Demon Hunter specs and all the spec got was silence. After launch ret got a single hotfix buff long after release and that was that. Nothing was done for the mechanics that weren't working or the talents that were unviable. Ultimately the best news for Ret has been that Blizzard only broken one of the talents that was actually working. They had initially wanted to break two.

Im sure they didn't decide against it but are looking for a different way to break it.

[Monzsterr]

Ret has had issues since Beta and Blizzard barely raised a finger to address it. There were more posts in the ret thread than there was for the Demon Hunter specs and all the spec got was silence. After launch ret got a single hotfix buff long after release and that was that. Nothing was done for the mechanics that weren't working or the talents that were unviable. Ultimately the best news for Ret has been that Blizzard only broken one of the talents that was actually working. They had initially wanted to break two.

I'm assuming the core of our class is what they are currently wanting and the thing everyone complains about (mobility and target switching) are intended weaknesses, you won't see then raise a finger to change things that are intended to be a there. True enough though there are too many unusable talents (I'm looking at you level 15 and 100 rows!).
But, are you saying Blade of Wrath is broken at this time? Because value wise (by the numbers) that's simply not true. Not everyone likes having proc, I'm happy with it, but value wise it's basically the same as old blade of wrath and currently equal on single target to virtue's blade, better on cleave. It's not broken.

I don't think ret is the standard. We've had that one big balance about a month ago giving us about a 10% buff overall. But we certainly haven't had many rounds of tuning since 7.0. Probably because they don't have to constantly try to balance us against our other dps specs so there is a little more room in our balance to be a bit higher or lower without effecting too many people's play. Not like other dps classes that need to be balanced against each other.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

They aren't being hotfixed because all three specs are very strong.
I wouldn't say they are the "control" (or more the baseline) but they work as intended.
Ret especially, is a great example.
Strong in both PVE and PVP given the right pilot with not too much utility, but enough to have a major impact.

[Merie]

If Ret is the guy with poor mobility, utility, few ranged abilities, awful target swapping and poor aoe that good single target dps once every two minutes just isn't enough. The dps I can inflict on patchwerk style bosses in ideal stationary single target situations is great on its own, but not great enough to offset being worthlessness in almost any other situation. Even my Unholy while having comparable awful mobility compared to my Ret still has a lot of ranged abilities that can be used inbetween "get away from boss" mechanics. Even my Unholy has good single target and multi target sustained and burst alike. My Unholy GETS things in exchange for these weaknesses. All Ret has that's mind blowing is Crusade and make no mistake, Blizzard is hell bent on changing it at some point.

[Morally Grey Storm]

You could use 3 blessing of wisdoms on your healers to help them out with mana

Go away.
I am not sure I will be able to contain the urge to swear.

You don't know jack about Ret mechanics, hindrances and limitations yet dare open your flytrap you fethwipe.
Ignorant to the core yet arrogant enough to spit out your misinformed unsound opinion.
I'm sick of the likes of you.

[Hawg]

They aren't being hotfixed because all three specs are very strong.
I wouldn't say they are the "control" (or more the baseline) but they work as intended.
Ret especially, is a great example.
Strong in both PVE and PVP given the right pilot with not too much utility, but enough to have a major impact.

You make a good point, I should have said baseline rather than control.

[Jester Joe]

You could use 3 blessing of wisdoms on your healers to help them out with mana, or 2 kings on tanks to help out a lil bit with dmg reduction or 3 might on dps to increase their dps

The might one is the only correct way.

I honestly have trouble trying to describe why Wisdom and Kings is just wrong to use. 1% mana every 15 seconds? I'm not even sure off the top of my head how much of an absorb Kings gives, but it's really low and awful.

Compared to a 10% chance to do an extra 30% damage. It's not even close.

[Iphie]

The might one is the only correct way.

I honestly have trouble trying to describe why Wisdom and Kings is just wrong to use. 1% mana every 15 seconds? I'm not even sure off the top of my head how much of an absorb Kings gives, but it's really low and awful.

Compared to a 10% chance to do an extra 30% damage. It's not even close.

Kings gives, in my case, an absorb shield of a whopping 46,481 every 6s...BoK is just not worth it.
I've used wisdom once during HC progression, and it was worth it as we got the kill, however my dps suffered and if we would have had a 3rd healer BoW would not have been nescessary. Let's not forget that BoW also heals the recipient. (group was slightly too large for 2 healers)

Apart from that: BoM all the way, everyday.

[tuesday the paladin]

You could use 3 blessing of wisdoms on your healers to help them out with mana, or 2 kings on tanks to help out a lil bit with dmg reduction or 3 might on dps to increase their dps, or use them on yourself for that matter. In emergency situations you can even "oh shit" heal someone back up and with your divine shield you should be able to soak certain mechanics no?

I'm about 99% sure Wisdom and Kings were added to trick bad rets into being extra bad. Wisdom is horrible mana generation, it's like 1 flash heal every 4.5 minutes. Assuming it never gets wasted kings is about 1 full healthbar every 5-6 minutes on my paladin as a tank spec. They're pathetically bad. Sure, they're available but there's never a situation where you should be planning on using them and you wouldn't benefit more from extra damage provided by might.

[Deleted]

The might one is the only correct way.

Wisdom is good on sufficiently long fights or ones that are mana-intensive (either due to poor mana management or people standing in too much shit).
Trading ~2.3% of a single player's damage for 4% extra mana/minute for a healer is not always a bad thing.
Having 28% extra mana on a 7 minute long fight can sometimes make a difference, but as gear and damage (or player performance) improve, it naturally loses value.

Kings, on the other hand, is always trash-tier.

[Hawg]

Just looking at the updates to patch 7.1.5, 15ish pages of spell changes and adjustments. Litterally only one change to holy pally, reducing the cost of BoV from 15% base mana to 10%. Again this makes me think we are the baseline. We've had virtually zero changes to the spec since beta. Not that this is a bad thing, but it does make reading patch notes less exciting,

[Saverem]

Go away.
I am not sure I will be able to contain the urge to swear.

You don't know jack about Ret mechanics, hindrances and limitations yet dare open your flytrap you fethwipe.
Ignorant to the core yet arrogant enough to spit out your misinformed unsound opinion.
I'm sick of the likes of you.

Holy shit, this is the cringiest thing I ever read. And I subscribe to r/cringe.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Holy shit, this is the cringiest thing I ever read. And I subscribe to r/cringe.

And your point being. ..?

[Tanthoris]

I'm a little disappointed by how little blizz is trying to work with the weak talents aside from what was already done. Ret has so many cookie cutter talents it's kinda sad. It isn't anything new though honestly, blizz normally works on ret in beta, then just lets it stay there until the next xpac beta rolls around. Not to say that ret isn't in a good spot for PvE and PvP, but some work could be done on the near useless talents we have.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Shhhhhh.... Be vwewy vwewy quiet. We're hiding from the patchers.

I too am very happy with the way my prot pally plays right now. Not OP, but just enough of everything he needs to feel useful in any instance. Stay the course.

[Noore57]

I love my prot pally (mythic+ only, no raiding), so no need to change there.
When my prot warrior friend is online I am switching to Ret. Always running with a BM Hunter. So we have a good balance between trash dps and ST dps.
So no complains here, too.

Mobility is the only one!

[Meiffert]

1% mana every 15 seconds? I'm not even sure off the top of my head how much of an absorb Kings gives

So, you don't even know how much it does, but somehow you know it's way worse than might.

Might, that gives 3 % dps to one player (which is about 0.2 % of your raid dps). To put it in perspective, it will shorten the Guarm fight (the biggest dps check currently) by less than half a second. You won't get a single extra ability in that time frame.

Now, I'm not saying BoM is not worth it. I actually think that using 3x BoM (which will give your raid about 1 extra GCD total) is the best choice on this fight.

But why do you say that it is the only choice in every situation when you don't even know what the other two abilities do?
Just some food for thought: 1 cast of BoW gives your healing team more than 0.2 % mana regen and 1 cast of BoK gives more absorb than 0.2 % raid damage taken.