Master Assassin x3 worth it?

[Kalador]

The trait has an diminishing return. @ 3/3 you have a cdr of 27sec. @ 5/3 is the cdr at 43sec.

What?? The trait takes a flat 10sec per point ... 3/3 is 30 sec 5/3 is 50 sec

[Grizvok]

The trait has an diminishing return. @ 3/3 you have a cdr of 27sec. @ 5/3 is the cdr at 43sec.

No, no it doesn't.

[Deleted]

sorry fooled myselft with the tooltip failure

[RemJay24]

worth it if you have the legendary boots?

[Kalador]

worth it if you have the legendary boots?

Most likely yes.

[Richie311]

worth it if you have the legendary boots?

Oh yea, depending on gear you can get your effective Vend cooldown lowered to at least 50s if not down to 45 with 880ish gear which allows you to have it up for every Kingsbane use.

[omeomorfismo]

vendetta give us 110 energy (10+ energy are wasted thanks gcd), so basically 2 sec of cd reduction, hence 58 sec of cd baselina
then we have 10 eps plus 10 eps from both bleeds with venom rush.
then every 2.5 sec we generate the 50 energy needed, so solving 58-2.5t=t => 41.4 sec
then we have haste regeneration, the bonus set, the trinket of guldan and all increments are better than the previous

[Chemii]

I've found a lot of the time Vendetta is back up before KB & Exang with the boots & three Master Assassin relics, so I've gone back to using two rupture damage relics. Even if you have down-time you can Spam FoK and it still reduces the cool-down.

The other issues I've encountered is the fact that the Vanish & on-use trinket line-up is a pain if you get too much cool-down reduction, you just end up waiting a lot anyway, so the relics become absolutely worthless.

[MostlyEvilKiwi]

worth it if you have the legendary boots?

Got the boots last night, so was doing some testing on the target dummies to see how things lined up. I had 1 MA relic to start with, and that would leave me with 10 seconds left on vendetta cooldown every time kingsbane came up, it works out to be about 53 seconds average cooldown time. When I put a second MA relic in that I had in the bank, now it's pretty much 46 seconds on average making it line right up with Kingsbane. But it doesn't line up with vanish's 2 min cooldown. If I put a 3rd MA in (but I don't have one) it would drop vendetta to ~39 seconds per cooldown, which would perfectly line up every 3rd vendetta with every vanish. If I had zero MA relics it looks like vendetta would be pretty much exactly every 60 seconds, which would also line up nicely with each vanish.

But target dummies are very measured and consistant, I'm curious how things will behave when I get to do some real raid bosses tonight.

[Deleted]

Im comfused after farming alot black rook hold finally got the last relic. Now the vendeeta relics i have are 860/845/865 and my current ones 880/885/880 mastery alchemy/rupture dmg/rupture crit. Simulutioncraft says i should go for vendetta but im not sure.. I would like your help. (P.S i dont have legen boots)

[untangled]

You will do less damage on average in high M+, but you will do more damage on average in a raid situation. Personally, I decided to keep my 3 880/880/895 rupture relics. I only sim at about 75% for my iLvl on Ursoc, but I am able to over 425k DPS, so it is an acceptable number, and my guild kills the boss. These relics improve my performance in M+ dungeons, where I think individual performance is a lot more relevant, so I preferred to focus on that.

[Dimanche]

I dropped 3 rupture (2 dmg & 1 crit) highlevel relics for 3 decent MA relics, and regretted it almost instantly.

Untangled summarized my impression quite well. 3 MA relics does better (only slightly in my case) on most raid boss fights.

However, I saw a considerable overall dps loss on Mythic+, where trash matters. Even on Mythic bosses where 3xMA doesn't really have time to shine.

Think twice about your priorities before committing.

-Dim

[Deleted]

Ty for your answers guys.. As it looks like not worth to go with 3 MA so ill keep my current ones. Again thanks for the feedbacks

[skindown]

Taken from a post of mine on WoW Rogue forum:

So, think about it like this

Our damage doesn't scale THAT GREAT with weapon damage as, for example, sub does

Now, we look at it from a neutral point

Any Rupture relic is the best overall, because it contributes a decent deal to both single target/AoE damage

While Master Assassin is MOSTLY single target, but hardly any AoE contribution at all ( aside from the energy cap trait if you are starved on the rotation )

Check the benefits of a Vendetta with lower CD:
- more uptime on it, that means more time over the fight with the 30% bonus damage
- more uptime on From the Shadows trait, it's not gamechanging but it's something
- more "energy cap checkpoints" for EP users
- lines up with every Vanish if you have 3 Vendetta CDR relics

I have 3x 865+ decent relics ( Rupture damage/crit chance ) on my bag, and I use 3x Vendetta CDR ( 1x 850 and 2x 855 ), no regrets, you can check my parses if you want ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...337940/latest/ )

Also, many rogues on top parses have relics all over the place, many have 3x Vendetta CDR, many have Rupture dmg/crit chance, I'd follow what Pinch is using ( 3x Vendetta CDR ) if I were you

Update on this, now using 885, 865 and 855 MA relics

The point of lining with every Vanish if you have the boots ( which would put it around ~43s cooldown? ) is that you would only delay it a couple seconds ( assuming using on CD, after you use it 3x, the next time it comes off CD would be on the 2min09s mark, which ... well ... you can safely delay if that means getting lucky BotA with Vendetta & Vanish, that case is worth it, but it okey if BotA doesn't proc too :P )

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

Didn't want to create a needless new thread, so I'll just pop my question here.

I currently have: 885 rupture dmg 845 MA (iron) 855 MA with the legendary boots. Got an 880 Master Alchemist (iron) from the weekly cache so the upgrade on the weapon itself would be 10 ilvl (relic ilvl upgrade = 35). Pawn can't really sim my relics (unless I'm wrong, just downloaded the addon) and AMR sims it to be a 300 DPS increase. I guess it would also be beneficial for pugs since it would effectively put me above 870 ilvl.

I mostly play EP/AP in raids and EP/Exsang in Mythic+. Now I get that the 880 will beat out the 845 MA in mythic+ and on anything AoE. However, I don't get why the relic is so lowly rated, it increased AP's damage taken by the target as well. What do you guys think? Since the MA x2 seems way more important for Exsang on single target to get it to line up with Exsang, and I only use Exsang on non-ST fights such as Il'gynoth, it doesn't seem too harmful switching them around. For AP, the MA x2 looks less interesting to me since it doesn't line up with a 45sec cd. What do you guys think?

[atokes]

Hey guys,

Didn't want to create a needless new thread, so I'll just pop my question here.

I currently have: 885 rupture dmg 845 MA (iron) 855 MA with the legendary boots. Got an 880 Master Alchemist (iron) from the weekly cache so the upgrade on the weapon itself would be 10 ilvl (relic ilvl upgrade = 35). Pawn can't really sim my relics (unless I'm wrong, just downloaded the addon) and AMR sims it to be a 300 DPS increase. I guess it would also be beneficial for pugs since it would effectively put me above 870 ilvl.

I mostly play EP/AP in raids and EP/Exsang in Mythic+. Now I get that the 880 will beat out the 845 MA in mythic+ and on anything AoE. However, I don't get why the relic is so lowly rated, it increased AP's damage taken by the target as well. What do you guys think? Since the MA x2 seems way more important for Exsang on single target to get it to line up with Exsang, and I only use Exsang on non-ST fights such as Il'gynoth, it doesn't seem too harmful switching them around. For AP, the MA x2 looks less interesting to me since it doesn't line up with a 45sec cd. What do you guys think?

I am sort of in the same boat 875 MA shadow 850 ma iron and 895 mut crit, wit legendary boots. I dropped a 895 shadow rupture crit for the 875 shadow and an 880 for the 850 iron. Did notice a slight dps loss in m+ but you can also vendetta more comfortably on trash so it's not too bad. But In raid despite sims I noticed at least a 30k dps increase if not more. 2 mA relics with boots puts vendetta on a 45 to 50 seconds cool down, to line up with kingsbane everytime. I'd keep your 2 MA relics since you have boots in raid it's pretty awesome even on fights like myth dragons and illgynoth.

[Chemii]

Hey guys,

Didn't want to create a needless new thread, so I'll just pop my question here.

I currently have: 885 rupture dmg 845 MA (iron) 855 MA with the legendary boots. Got an 880 Master Alchemist (iron) from the weekly cache so the upgrade on the weapon itself would be 10 ilvl (relic ilvl upgrade = 35). Pawn can't really sim my relics (unless I'm wrong, just downloaded the addon) and AMR sims it to be a 300 DPS increase. I guess it would also be beneficial for pugs since it would effectively put me above 870 ilvl.

I mostly play EP/AP in raids and EP/Exsang in Mythic+. Now I get that the 880 will beat out the 845 MA in mythic+ and on anything AoE. However, I don't get why the relic is so lowly rated, it increased AP's damage taken by the target as well. What do you guys think? Since the MA x2 seems way more important for Exsang on single target to get it to line up with Exsang, and I only use Exsang on non-ST fights such as Il'gynoth, it doesn't seem too harmful switching them around. For AP, the MA x2 looks less interesting to me since it doesn't line up with a 45sec cd. What do you guys think?

Don't trust AMR in this situation. The boots change things.

I blindly changed the one 850 blood MA relic I had to an 880 Mutilate Crit Chance relic because I trusted AMR and it fucked my DPS up completely because I'm waiting around 10-12 seconds for Vendetta whilst all my other CD's are available, the prior week I wasn't delaying for much longer than a couple of seconds.

It might not sound like a lot but it made a huge difference.

The key feature of using MA relics at all is lining up with your other cool-downs. As far as the boots are concerned, you CAN have too many MA relics. Anytime Vendetta is not on cool-down the relics value fall to almost zero relative to R-Damage. The ideal scenario is to make all your cool-downs come up at once. If that involves using just one MA relic, then that's how it is.

The point is that with the boots its possible to swing the other way creating a situation where you are waiting for KB/Exang to come up - the 3/6% rupture damage at that time is FAR better as it has strong synergy with Vendetta & Exang anyway, where as simply just sitting waiting to press Vendetta for even 5 seconds means at least one of your MA relics has absolutely no value.

To get absolute benefit from MA relics, Vendetta must be on cool-down 99% of the time.

[ribthanwa]

I am currently running an 865 ilvl setup with highly optimized secondaries for EP/AP (42% crit, 121% mastery, 4% haste (meh), 0% vers) and I have 3 MA relics and the boots. I can pull over/close to 400k ST dps, depending on fight length.

I have found that the Vendetta CD lines up almost perfectly with KB, and will also line up with every vanish (with minor waiting). Someone stated that, with the boots, the MA relics can be worth as much as 70+ ilvls on the relic, which is absolutely insane. I can't wait until nighthold when we can get that CDR relic from grand magistrix, and we get even closer to 100% uptime. HYPE.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Ion also said that we'll be getting a 4th slot in each of our 3/3 traits, so I think we may be able to hit 100% vendetta uptime this expac. HYPE

I know we will have a different tier set once 7.2 comes out, for the time when we can get 7/7 in the Vendetta CDR, and we still have all the gear from NH. Based on my quick math, and this is WITHOUT THE TRINKET, taking into account EPS from 2% haste (only from the boot's contribution), and the T19 4pc bleed. We will have roughly a 32 second CD on Vendetta. That means if we can get a proc roughly once every 10 seconds (it will actually need to be a bit higher than this, since you lose out on the EPS for every second you cut down), we will have quite nearly 100% uptime on vendetta.

Reworking my calculations without the 4th trait point in MA from 7.2, we can see what it will actually look like in NH. I'm seeing a 39sec CD with 6/6 MA, and the boots, but without the trinket. Get used to seeing at least 50% uptime come January

EDIT 2: In the first case, you would need three CDR procs in 20sec from the trinket to actually achieve 100% uptime. That ppm value might be a bit optimistic, but it still seems pretty crazy.