Dumb as shit to rip on saving and cheating in games?

[Eleccybubb]

I say let everyone play the way they want to play

it's just a game.

This. You wanna do a no save run? Fine the option is there. I've done it before with FF7. Like I said major difference between inconvenience and a challenge and removing save points does not make a game a challenge.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I say let everyone play the way they want to play

it's just a game.

Yup. I mean I can see the whole cheating aspect when it is say in a multiplayer game because that directly changes and challenges the style of play from others with stuff from outside the game but as for the rest... if you really despise saves, cheat codes, trainers, or whatever else is out there these days just don't use them.

[alucardtnuoc]

Double Post: No Save Runs & Cheating

A: Of course, it doesn’t apply to all genres and types of games, but I have just recently discovered how thrilling it is to take on certain solo-play games without saving, restarting upon death. Realistically, we only live once so, unless there’s a multiverse at work, your player character’s first death should be final as well. Reloading from save points after dying to continue a story destroys immersion and believability for me, and the thrill comes from caring and planning to avoid death in interactive stories as you would in reality.

B: Related to what I think of permanent death, don’t cheat in a game unless it’s for “fun” achievements. Doing so not only strips all the challenge but practically 99% of a video game’s purpose in regards to personal interactivity. Also, I get instantly disconnected from a story knowing my character magically possesses solutions to every situation beforehand without even any form of trial and error.

A. Starting over again changes nothing, you as the player still know about everything you encountered upto that point. Even in a randomized enviroment with random traps, you'll still know SOMETHING about the traps, be it a way to detect or avoid. So just deleting the game and never playing again would be the only solution.

B. As long as the game has a single player mode and has no possible way to interact online, people can do what they want. I've cheated on some games to check things out, GTA for a flying tank, GT4 to unlock cars i can't afford. Used god mode to explore places that usually caused instant death just to see if there was anything hidden.

The only time I have an issue is when people cheat on the online game. From Scripting for automatic abilities to Fly hacking to duping, that spoils the game for EVERYONE while if it was single player it would only affect THEIR enjoyment which is fine.

[Wolfbear]

They are cool challenge runs for games, no death runs that is. Like the Happy Hob on twitch doing Dark Souls no death runs.

[Scufflegrit]

Realistically, we only live once so, unless there’s a multiverse at work, your player character’s first death should be final as well.

Realistically I:
-don't know how to use a massive and varied array of weapons from medieval to futuristic.
-would never be able to carry all those weapons around at the same time, even though I can in a game.
-can't hurl fire, lightning, ice or any other type of magic from my fingertips.
-would never do basically any of the stuff in the GTA series.
-know that there aren't giant monsters roaming the land wanting to destroy all humanity.
-just woke up and am still sleepy so I can't think or anything else right now.

But I think the point is made. None of us can realistically do any of the stuff we can do in games. So why should coming back from the dead be any different?

This. You wanna do a no save run? Fine the option is there. I've done it before with FF7.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you didn't fight Ruby Weapon in that play through.

[Eleccybubb]

Realistically I:
-don't know how to use a massive and varied array of weapons from medieval to futuristic.
-would never be able to carry all those weapons around at the same time, even though I can in a game.
-can't hurl fire, lightning, ice or any other type of magic from my fingertips.
-would never do basically any of the stuff in the GTA series.
-know that there aren't giant monsters roaming the land wanting to destroy all humanity.
-am just woke up and am still sleepy so I can't think or anything else right now.

But I think the point is made. None of us can realistically do any of the stuff we can do in games. So why should coming back from the dead be any different?



I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you didn't fight Ruby Weapon in that play through.

Haha yeah. My no save runs I'll get some side stuff but only one I've ever actually done is FF8 because Omega is probably the piss easiest superboss ever. Oh Terra Break? I'll just Holy War that or use Rinoas Angel Wing.

[Syce]

i say cheat away in single player games all you want. i dont like people cheating in multiplayer games though.

[falagar112]

Double Post: No Save Runs & Cheating

A: Of course, it doesn’t apply to all genres and types of games, but I have just recently discovered how thrilling it is to take on certain solo-play games without saving, restarting upon death. Realistically, we only live once so, unless there’s a multiverse at work, your player character’s first death should be final as well. Reloading from save points after dying to continue a story destroys immersion and believability for me, and the thrill comes from caring and planning to avoid death in interactive stories as you would in reality.

B: Related to what I think of permanent death, don’t cheat in a game unless it’s for “fun” achievements. Doing so not only strips all the challenge but practically 99% of a video game’s purpose in regards to personal interactivity. Also, I get instantly disconnected from a story knowing my character magically possesses solutions to every situation beforehand without even any form of trial and error.

I'm a player that does not mind playing "hardcore", and no death runs are fun and engaging, add a challenge.
I've recently done a King's Bounty run with 0 units lost (so you cannot lose more units as on battle resurrect spell you can do basically) that was a reaaaal challenge, and really fun.

And after finding MSGO - now trying a deathless Morrowind run (not counting "forced" story deaths ofcourse)

That said, some games are either not build for those kind of runs, and some online games simply have to many server issues that can cause deaths, that i refuse to play it hardcore. Path of Exile comes to mind (that is partially me lacking a decent SSD, though!)

There's also the Triple Crown achievement in Pillars of Eternity, that is a real challenge and quite fun as well!

edit: the only kind of games that I "cheat" in, are grand strategy games/long TBS games- where I just want to test something out for an actual playthrough, but don't want to play for 8 hours getting to the point required to test it. I simply don't have that kind of time to waste anymore

[Redcrow]

Double Post: No Save Runs & Cheating

A: Of course, it doesn’t apply to all genres and types of games, but I have just recently discovered how thrilling it is to take on certain solo-play games without saving, restarting upon death. Realistically, we only live once so, unless there’s a multiverse at work, your player character’s first death should be final as well. Reloading from save points after dying to continue a story destroys immersion and believability for me, and the thrill comes from caring and planning to avoid death in interactive stories as you would in reality.

B: Related to what I think of permanent death, don’t cheat in a game unless it’s for “fun” achievements. Doing so not only strips all the challenge but practically 99% of a video game’s purpose in regards to personal interactivity. Also, I get instantly disconnected from a story knowing my character magically possesses solutions to every situation beforehand without even any form of trial and error.

I don't think restarting the game fixes the issue you have with it. Ok so you start a new character and know about enemies and traps with a different character you still have that "pre-knowledge".

You should really just die and never play the game again.

[Deleted]

I don't cheat, but no-death runs of games are stupid in my opinion.

Seems like an utter waste of time.

Life is a waste of time... no matter what impact you had on this world, it is totally meaningless on a universal scale and nothing you will ever do matters.. so you might as well have fun living. If that "fun" for you means playing games rogue-like, then so be it. Not for you to judge.

[Kathandira]

Double Post: No Save Runs & Cheating

A: Of course, it doesn’t apply to all genres and types of games, but I have just recently discovered how thrilling it is to take on certain solo-play games without saving, restarting upon death. Realistically, we only live once so, unless there’s a multiverse at work, your player character’s first death should be final as well. Reloading from save points after dying to continue a story destroys immersion and believability for me, and the thrill comes from caring and planning to avoid death in interactive stories as you would in reality.

B: Related to what I think of permanent death, don’t cheat in a game unless it’s for “fun” achievements. Doing so not only strips all the challenge but practically 99% of a video game’s purpose in regards to personal interactivity. Also, I get instantly disconnected from a story knowing my character magically possesses solutions to every situation beforehand without even any form of trial and error.

Games with Perma-death generally don't sit well with the masses. They exist, but the masses aren't interested in a game where you can spend 100 hours playing, only to die from some B.S. and have to start from the beginning.

- - - Updated - - -

Life is a waste of time... no matter what impact you had on this world, it is totally meaningless on a universal scale and nothing you will ever do matters.. so you might as well have fun living. If that "fun" for you means playing games rogue-like, then so be it. Not for you to judge.

We can't change that about life. But video games can have flexibility. That is why games like COD exist. Not everyone wants to truly put their life at risk in the middle of a gun fight, but to simulate it is a blast! Especially if you can go through it in a trial and error method, because in real life, you get 1 shot at survival and 1 shot only, which is not exactly a lot of fun when the odds are stacked against you, and you have no margin for error.

[I Push Buttons]

Life is a waste of time... no matter what impact you had on this world, it is totally meaningless on a universal scale and nothing you will ever do matters.. so you might as well have fun living. If that "fun" for you means playing games rogue-like, then so be it. Not for you to judge.

But its ok for your to judge my opinion that its not fun and go on a rant about how I am irrelevant to the universe, so I might as well waste my time.

[glorygores]

Welcome to the Roguelike genre, I'd suggest Tales of Maj'eyal.

OT: Personally, I prefer the trial and error method of continual progression regardless of death. When you restart in scripted games like Dark souls etc you know where they're going to be. Regardless if you start from the save point or from the beginning. You've removed that challenge regardless. If I want the perma-death gameplay though, I play Roguelikes, as mentioned above Tales of Maj'eyal, as they are designed from the ground up for it.

[Belloc]

All is fair in single-player games.

[Sliske]

don't you think my claims of narrative dissonance make sense? I mean shit doesn't just sit well with me. Like if your character died to a collapsing ceiling trap, then well he had it coming in-universe because he/she didn't think it over. But when you, the player, just reload from a prior save point with knowledge of this trap now, it's just immersion breaking because you realize even though you are playing someone from an average blonde teenaged girl to rookie police officer, they can just come back from the dead without real fear of consequence.

The vast, vast majority of people don't immerse themselves in entertainment. This is why almost every successful franchise (movie, tv and game) are shallow as fuck

The Walking Dead, Transformers, Die Hard, Fast and Furious, Call of Duty, Bethesda Games, WOW

Actually immersing yourself into this content is hard, because shit just isn't designed that way, or if it is, they've done a poor ass job of it. Shit like being 3 feet infront of someone, crouching and them going "huh, where did he go?"

MOST big entertainment these days are a roller coaster. You enter, you look around, you have some fun, you leave.

Immersion isn't broken if immersion wasn't there in the first place

[Sliske]

Probably because "most people" don't actually care about being "immersed" in entertainment. They just want to be entertained without all the nonsense elitism that goes around in some circles about every little thing and/or people believing that they're superior because they enjoy a "better" TV show, or play a "better" video game than the next guy.

yeah i agree and was suppose to say that - most people don't give a shit about immersion.

[Scufflegrit]

Actually immersing yourself into this content is hard, because shit just isn't designed that way, or if it is, they've done a poor ass job of it. Shit like being 3 feet infront of someone, crouching and them going "huh, where did he go?"

That makes me think of Dark Age of Camelot. Not because of being able to hide like that (I don't remember if stealth worked like that or not, I only played one stealth class, and didn't play it that long), but because of the opposite. Many monster camps had scouts patrolling the outskirts and if they saw you, they would not attack. They would run back to the main camp, yell for help, THEN attack you when they had 5-6 other monsters with them. Fun times.