What am I missing here?

[TITAN308]

Story: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/05...-her-life.html

Punch caught on video leaves New Jersey teen fighting for her life.

A young New Jersey woman caught on video being punched in the face is in a hospital fighting for her life, according to reports.

The Newark Star-Ledger reported Friday that the video posted on social media shows Emily Rand, 19, of South Amboy, getting hit with the punch after she takes a swing at a man.

The paper reported that Rand was knocked to the ground and fractured her skull. The incident happened last weekend in the middle of a street near a Rutgers University fraternity house in New Brunswick.

The piece is being ran like she was the victim of some sort of knock out game, or at least that is the first thing I thought reading the headline before clicking the article.

Its right there, she took a swing at someone and they returned the favor? I mean, its clear as day even in the video.

How is this even news?

[Independent voter]

Where I was raised it's not okay to hit women even if they try to punch you. It is okay to spank them though, if they are hitting you that is.

The girl in the article looks too small to threaten a man with physical harm and she certainly didn't deserve to wind up in the hospital.

Do you know why women have long necks? It's because they don't have the neck muscles that men do, neck muscles that will let you take a punch to the face.

No, she shouldn't be punching people

My guess is alcohol was involved.

[Kaeth]

From what's stated in the article, it sounds like her injury was caused primarily by her head hitting the ground, not the punch itself. Let that be a lesson to you: don't pick a fight while standing on rock or concrete. Boxing and wrestling rings are padded for a reason.

Do you know why women have long necks? It's because they don't have the neck muscles that men do, neck muscles that will let you take a punch to the face.

Though exceptions must be noted. If I were to take a swing at Ronda Rousey, for example, I would expect to be the one in the hospital with serious injuries.

[Jester Joe]

There's a line between self defense, and assault.

You can't suddenly claim you were defending yourself from a punch if you harmed them far worse than they harmed you. Even if it was caused by her falling over, I would imagine the law would view her getting hard enough to be knocked over is over the top.

[Darkrulerxxx]

where's Endus saying that fists can't be a deadly weapon?

OT: it sucks that this happened, but apparently the person swung first so i can't feel much for her

[TITAN308]

My guess is alcohol was involved.

Oh yea watching video, "Oh hey look Jersey Shore IRL".

I never watched the show, like in a sit down fashion, caught blips here and there, but I swear this still makes me laugh to this day:

Cold Link to Animated GIF for the squeamish

Guy was totally in the wrong as no physical contact was attempted, but we all know who Snooki is/was and its like "my care up is pretty damn empty"

- - - Updated - - -

There's a line between self defense, and assault.

You can't suddenly claim you were defending yourself from a punch if you harmed them far worse than they harmed you.

Uh, that is not how it works. Like at all. As much as her getting hurt badly by the fall trips your feels and no matter if the guy was a raging butthole, that is a pretty clear cut case of self defense as determined by law (again, not feels) unless the video is edited to exclude some key piece of info.

[Jester Joe]

Uh, that is not how it works. Like at all. As much as her getting hurt badly by the fall trips your feels and no matter if the guy was a raging butthole, that is a pretty clear cut case of self defense by determined by law (again, not feels) unless the video is edited to exclude some key piece of info.

It's exactly how it works. Re-read my edited post. Self defense is the "the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger."

Keyword, reasonable. If she punched him, and he didn't topple or get injured that much, it's not reasonable to punch her back hard enough to knock her over. It would be more reasonable to grab her arm if she tries to again, and prevent her.

And I'd rather not get into whether it's "feels" or not, since I'm just telling you the definition. On the other hand, you seem like you're kinda emotionally invested in this.

[I Push Buttons]

Uh, that is not how it works. Like at all.

It is though... Use of force continuum applies to civilians as much as police in most areas.

Like if someone is punching you and you pull a gun and shoot them in self-defense... Unless there was no other alternative than shooting them, in many jurisdictions you become the aggressor in the altercation.

Likewise here, she slapped him and then he punched her so hard she was knocked unconscious... Perhaps the police view that as escalation.

[s_bushido]

"Men are physically stronger than women. Why won't you dumbass SJWs cucks just accept the facts of biology!"

"What do you mean a man punching a woman is more likely to cause damage than a woman punching a man! Stop being dumbass SJW cucks!"

Never change, internet. Never change.

[TITAN308]

It's exactly how it works. Re-read my edited post. Self defense is the "the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger."

Keyword, reasonable. If she punched him, and he didn't topple or get injured that much, it's not reasonable to punch her back hard enough to knock her over. It would be more reasonable to grab her arm if she tries to again, and prevent her.

And I'd rather not get into whether it's "feels" or not, since I'm just telling you the definition. On the other hand, you seem like you're kinda emotionally invested in this.

Bullshit, he executed a punch immediately after she did, he had no idea if she was going to continue to attack him just because she missed.

She didn't swing, miss, then he stood their contemplating for a few minutes to retaliate with a punch.

The law has determined physical contact does NOT have to occur for physical contact to follow up. That is like saying someone can swing at you as many times as they want and as long as they are missing you can't do anything.

His punch was one fluid response and IMMEDIATE to her punch.

Hell I wouldn't even do it and because a jury trial may be a crapshoot as its a touchy subject.

[Kalis]

In the video she clearly punches him in the face, not just takes a swing, as that infers she may have missed, then he knocks her out with one punch.

Heads up ladies, your vagina is not a shield.

[Akka]

There's a line between self defense, and assault.

You can't suddenly claim you were defending yourself from a punch if you harmed them far worse than they harmed you. Even if it was caused by her falling over, I would imagine the law would view her getting hard enough to be knocked over is over the top.

The line between assault and self-defense is about means, not ends. It's not about how you harmed them compared to you, it's about if you fought back using proportionate means. If someone tries to stab you with a knife, but you dodge (so your're totally unharmed) and you punch his teeth out (so he's pretty banged up), he'll be hurt more than you, but you are still in full-fledged self-defense.

[ZazuuPriest]

It's exactly how it works. Re-read my edited post. Self defense is the "the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger."

Keyword, reasonable. If she punched him, and he didn't topple or get injured that much, it's not reasonable to punch her back hard enough to knock her over. It would be more reasonable to grab her arm if she tries to again, and prevent her.

And I'd rather not get into whether it's "feels" or not, since I'm just telling you the definition. On the other hand, you seem like you're kinda emotionally invested in this.

Youre wrong, its is clearly self defense, women think they can lay hands on and nothing will happen to them. Not sorry to say she got exactly what she deserved and if she wakes up she will OBVIOUSLY play the victim like they all do, but in the end will probably think twice next time.

[Jester Joe]

Bullshit, he executed a punch immediately after she did, he had no idea if she was going to continue to attack him just because she missed.

And he was in the wrong for doing so, right within the legal definition. Do you honestly consider it reasonable to counter a missed slap with a knockout punch? She wasn't armed (well, except with her arms), so he could of restrained her if he was strong enough to knock her over and out with a punch.

The line between assault and self-defense is about means, not ends. It's not about how you harmed them compared to you, it's about if you fought back using proportionate means. If someone tries to stab you with a knife, but you dodge (so your're totally unharmed) and you punch his teeth out (so he's pretty banged up), he'll be hurt more than you, but you are still in full-fledged self-defense.

You're comparing completely different situations.

If someone is armed with a knife, it's completely reasonable to actually react in a more larger way if all you have is your fists. In that case, you had reason to believe your life was in grave danger, hence, it's self defense.

That is not comparable at all to a slap.

Youre wrong, its is clearly self defense, women think they can lay hands on and nothing will happen to them. Not sorry to say she got exactly what she deserved and if she wakes up she will OBVIOUSLY play the victim like they all do, but in the end will probably think twice next time.

Re-read the legal definition. I couldn't care less about gender, there's no reason to make this into a gender issue either. Reasonable defense is the key point of self defense.

It's more easier to think of it as do whatever you can to escape/live. Was his life in danger?

[Zogarth]

He took a punch. He returned a punch. It is sad that she got hurt way worse than him, but i saw no use of excessive force. The result was just unlucky.

And he was in the wrong for doing so, right within the legal definition. Do you honestly consider it reasonable to counter a missed slap with a knockout punch? She wasn't armed (well, except with her arms), so he could of restrained her if he was strong enough to knock her over and out with a punch.



You're comparing completely different situations.

If someone is armed with a knife, it's completely reasonable to actually react in a more larger way if all you have is your fists. In that case, you had reason to believe your life was in grave danger, hence, it's self defense.

That is not comparable at all to a slap.



Re-read the legal definition. I couldn't care less about gender, there's no reason to make this into a gender issue either. Reasonable defense is the key point of self defense.

It's more easier to think of it as do whatever you can to escape/live. Was his life in danger?

He hit her once, he did not shoot her or stab her. Any little amount of resistance could have lead to major injuries to her. What if she had tried to hit him, and he dodged and tripped her so she fell and hit her head on the ground? Would that still be his fault?

[TITAN308]

And he was in the wrong for doing so, right within the legal definition. Do you honestly consider it reasonable to counter a missed slap with a knockout punch? She wasn't armed (well, except with her arms), so he could of restrained her if he was strong enough to knock her over and out with a punch.

Do you have any idea what the right kind of ring turned around backwards (palm down) can do to your face?

You say you are not debating out of the feelzone, but you are. He was attacked. Period. While it is unfortunate the follow up result of her hitting her head on the ground. Guess whos fault that is?

Also, why are we talking about a slap anyhow? Did you even watch the video?

She actually had a pretty damn lightning fast punch. I couldn't have dodged that shit. To bad she had noodle arms behind it.

[ZazuuPriest]

It's more easier to think of it as do whatever you can to escape/live. Was his life in danger?

was his life in danger? What if she hit him in the temple and he fell over hit his head and died? Exactly the only reason youre making excuses for this woman is because she is in fact a woman.

go home

[Serpha]

It's not the punch but the outcome. That's the problem with fighting, there can be accidental injuries like broken bones, concussion, or some other serious injuries like hers. There would be no problem if she wasn't in the hospital fighting for her life and something like that can send you to jail no matter if it was accident or not.

[Kalis]

And he was in the wrong for doing so, right within the legal definition. Do you honestly consider it reasonable to counter a missed slap with a knockout punch? She wasn't armed (well, except with her arms), so he could of restrained her if he was strong enough to knock her over and out with a punch.

What missed slap? In the video it looks like she had a closed fist and it shows his head jerking to the side, which indicates she connected, rather than him dodging it.

[Serpha]

He took a punch. He returned a punch. It is sad that she got hurt way worse than him, but i saw no use of excessive force. The result was just unlucky.

The news are full of unlucky 1 punch deaths (death part being the point)