I'm a new rogue and would like to know which spec to go for Mythic+

[Deleted]

Because they are elitist idiots who can only recommend the spec they are currently playing, instead of actually providing a good answer.

If you're going for 2-3 chests, go Outlaw. Trash should be dying so fast that Assassionation is going to be a lackluster for trash. Once you're starting to struggle to even reach the timer on higher M+, swap to Assassination. That's when trash is going to take a bit longer to kill and you actually have time to properly throw garrotes and ruptures on trash packs.

But hell, most importantly play the spec you actually like playing. Everyone performs worse when playing a spec they don't even enjoy playing.

All you have to do for assassination burst is 1 envenom and then FoK. You dont need to get all sorts of dots up first.

The litist people both play outlaw and assassination as is evident by the guy saying there are 100 parses for both assassination and outlaw.

The only idiot here is the guy calling people idiots

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^I can alternate saber slash and run through with no buffs up and pull 300k blade flurry dps so this is silly to suggest.

I can do 800k dps by whiteattacking 1 mob

[RobertMugabe]

IMHO it depends a lot on the affixes and trash + boss mechanics

Generally speaking, I'd go with Outlaw most of the time (even on the highest mythic+). You may have sometimes bad luck and do less dmg on some pulls, but you are generally going to do more dps on trash (which is far more important) nonentheless, also it requires little build up time and you can easier switch targets (in toital it is easier to play than ass or sub). Also IMHO, outlaw offers more utility than the other speccs.

That being said, if the affix is raging (generally you are going to kill mobs one by one and do far less aoe dmg) or if you generally do not need to do much aoe dmg, then I'd go with Assassination (on higher mythic+) as it does more consistent dmg than Outlaw and thus you have more ST dmg in total.

[Deleted]

The rogue from serenity (pyllero) said that assassination starts to be much better if you get the legendary cloak, and while I do main assassination with 0 legendaries i do pull significantly more single target dps (at least 100k more) than outlaw, i find that aoe is way easier on outlaw + the legendary gloves that increase blade flurry damage help quite a bit.

I think its highly dependent on gear for assassination to be much better in all situations, but initial burst as outlaw on aoe will pretty much always be better unless you get insane rng with poison bomb. So until i get the legendary cloak i tend to prefer outlaw at lower mythic+ levels and assassination at 10+ because i like the ability to run around and dodge stuff with my rupture + poisons up

[asapeazy]

I've had plenty of success playing Outlaw in mythic +. The AoE is Great, no ramp up time, and boss damage is not as bad as people in this post make it seem. I think a lot of people hate the spec/have no idea how to play it correctly. I personally love outlaw, think sin is boring and tried sub a few times, dunno if I am a fan.

Outlaw 872 ilvl w/ leg boots

[Deleted]

Outlaw any day. Highest survivability, utility, consistent damage and AoE damage. Sure you might do +/- 25 % damage for a few seconds every once in a while, because of good or bad roles. But you deliver your damage all the time and not as cooldown based. Also when you have the cooldown reduce you can Cloak so often, which really helps out in many situations.

[Deleted]

If you are serious about mythic plus stay away from Outlaw.

The spec if fine for low level mythic plus and its dps is decent at low gear level. However if you run mythic plus you will quickly gear up. And outlaws fluctuation in dps becomes a problem. In mythic plus you want consistent high dps. Not sometimes high and sometimes low dps.

You dont want to get stuck on an important add group rerolling 5-6 times begcause you got nothing you could use, ending up doing 200k aoe dps on that group.

This is complete misinformation. "An important add group" is something you save your Cds for, use basically any buff for and burn down - You don't roll at all while doing an "important" grp because you should be using CDs.

Outlaw rogues have been in on some of the worlds first +15 runs, hell some group ran two, was on the front page a while ago.

Assa and Sub are fine, but let's not pretend that you should "stay away from outlaw". As a matter of fact, Outlaw is a LOT MORE CONSISTENT on AoE than Assa because Poison Vial, so if anything, "Consistency is key" speaks for Outlaw more than Assa. Sub is pretty good and will only get better in the next few months. Outlaw has the most insane utility/survivability suite of all the melee classes, which is also a huge thing for m+.

Outlaw is the best rogue spec for m+ when pushing *in most instances* - CoS you should play sub/assa for example, and so on and so forth.

[ehxy]

^I can alternate saber slash and run through with no buffs up and pull 300k blade flurry dps so this is silly to suggest.

See this is the exact problem that outlaw rogues are throwing out there. Look at my AoE's guys it's sik.

Outlaw rogue is competitive. Yes it has its rainy days like many other specs for all classes that have a proc. The AoE is great. But it can have a bad string of rolls that does happen and the worst part of it is there is a mechanic in place that for instance you roll shark buff and you say WTF, I swear 80% of the time if you do mark for death and roll again it will be another shark buff. It's just how the system for rotb works, it's terrible and they really need to fix it.

[Nikkaszal]

I use Assassin for raids and M+ above 9

And Outlaw all day every day for lower M+

Assass shines when mobs live long enough that you have Rups/Garotte running on 3 and have the energy to spam FoK/Envenom on every single GCD for a while. The longer things live, the better Assass is at AoE

In low M+ where mobs die in 10sec or less, Outlaw wins. Its AoE requires zero setup and is bursty right from the get-go, esp with MFD resets (which Assass does not run).

I roll once and just keep what I have, for trash. If I roll TB, hoooooo baby, I'm using Arush on each pull and I'll leave everyone else in the dirt. The other buffs are all fine for short-lived trash.

[Deleted]

All you have to do for assassination burst is 1 envenom and then FoK.

That's absolutely nothing compared to Blade Flurry aoe, sorry. I'd love to see assa doing comparable AoE dmg that easily since I mainly play assa myself, but it just does not do that.

[Maelstrom51]

Sub is decent in mythic+ baseline (better than assassination but worse than Outlaw IMO) and great if you have the legendary cloak (slightly worse AoE than outlaw still, but much better single target).

[pies1]

Depends on the affixes and key level. +4 and up muti starts coming into its own (in my experience) since ruptures have time to tick. Earlier if bolstering. Lower than that it really doesn't matter since you're not a monk, DH or fire mage.

[Maelstrom51]

I'll point out some pros with Sub since the conversation seems mostly focused on Assassination and Outlaw.

AoE is better than you would expect. Between Relentless Strikes and Master of Shadows you never run out of energy, allowing you to spam Shuriken Storm and Nightblade. Nightblade has DPS similar to Rupture, but it doesn't last as long. You are also constantly in Shadowdance, so the Shuriken Storms actually do some damage.

Sub also has a niche that I'm not sure any other spec has - dramatically increased single target while multiple enemies are present. By spamming Shuriken Storm -> Eviscerate you can burst down priority targets extremely quickly.

Sub's single target is plain superior to Outlaw, and is close to Assassination's, but in lower mythics it won't shine because Assassination's burst is so much higher.

If you get the legendary boots or legendary cloak Sub becomes amazing. The cloak lets you compete with mages and such on AoE, while the boots make you one of the strongest single target specs in the game.

[Crispin]

I'll point out some pros with Sub since the conversation seems mostly focused on Assassination and Outlaw.

AoE is better than you would expect. Between Relentless Strikes and Master of Shadows you never run out of energy, allowing you to spam Shuriken Storm and Nightblade. Nightblade has DPS similar to Rupture, but it doesn't last as long. You are also constantly in Shadowdance, so the Shuriken Storms actually do some damage.

Sub also has a niche that I'm not sure any other spec has - dramatically increased single target while multiple enemies are present. By spamming Shuriken Storm -> Eviscerate you can burst down priority targets extremely quickly.

Sub's single target is plain superior to Outlaw, and is close to Assassination's, but in lower mythics it won't shine because Assassination's burst is so much higher.

If you get the legendary boots or legendary cloak Sub becomes amazing. The cloak lets you compete with mages and such on AoE, while the boots make you one of the strongest single target specs in the game.

I think the main issue with Sub (Which imo is a great spec), is that it's alot less forgiving than assa and outlaw.

[Nikkaszal]

Sub also has a niche that I'm not sure any other spec has - dramatically increased single target while multiple enemies are present. By spamming Shuriken Storm -> Eviscerate you can burst down priority targets extremely quickly.

Assass has this too. Seal Fate adds an extra CP for every crit, so if you have a bunch of enemies to throw FoK at, you get tons of CP per cast.

With decent crit, and lots of targets, FoK will be generating 6CP per cast and you get lots of full Envenoms.

[Kaluna]

I'll point out some pros with Sub since the conversation seems mostly focused on Assassination and Outlaw.

Snip-

You're talking about Master of Shadow, I was wondering how Death from above is doing in M+ ? With Finality I thought it could do a massive load of damage to pack, but I find myself struggling keeping the rotation fluid without MoS.
Any other perspectives on this choice ?

[shaunika123]

Assass has this too. Seal Fate adds an extra CP for every crit, so if you have a bunch of enemies to throw FoK at, you get tons of CP per cast.

With decent crit, and lots of targets, FoK will be generating 6CP per cast and you get lots of full Envenoms.

then again shurriken storm does waay more damage than FoK does :P

[Deleted]

I'm playing all three specs in m+ and I would say they are all good and they have their own niches.

- Outlaw has consistent medium to high aoe damage as well as the potential to some godtier single target and aoe with the right rolls. Lacks a bit in the single target department overall.

- Assassination has low to medium aoe damage, great cleave if the fight is long enough for ruptures to kick in, with the potential of great aoe burst in bag of tricks, as well as incredible single target.

- Subtlety has consistent high burst aoe damage (with the cloak), decent cleave and medium to high single target over longer durations. Subtlety lacks single target burst potential but is also the least RNG-dependent.

This means that I vary which spec I'm running depending on the dungeon and group setup. Also if I just want some variation in the gameplay.
This week on EU for example (bolstering, skittish, fortified) I feel like assassination is the better spec for high m+ (7-10), since you will not be doing big pulls and the mobs have high enough health for ruptures to really get going.

As a general rule of thumb I've been running outlaw in low m+ (2-4), subtlety in medium (4-7) and assassination in high (7-10).

[elcapone]

I haven't unlocked the 3rd trait for sub yet, anyone know how much extra deeps it adds? For me at 874 ilvl, i will do 50k aoe dmg to all enemies. I do around 350k to 400k aoe.

[Wonco]

I feel like people are doing lots of telling and not much showing in this thread, So I took some screenshots of the overall damage done at the end of the M+s I did last night.

imgur(dot)com/a/a3NoO

Over all the dungeons i've done i've never seen an Assassinaton Rogue come anywhere close to my damage, and i've never seen a Sub rouge at all. I don't think i'd ever not use Outlaw when doing Mythic+.

[lolpve]

I haven't unlocked the 3rd trait for sub yet, anyone know how much extra deeps it adds? For me at 874 ilvl, i will do 50k aoe dmg to all enemies. I do around 350k to 400k aoe.

Assuming you mean shadow nova, it does about 2% dps in single target and 5-10% dps in aoe for me. So pretty much the reverse of akaari's soul.