What happened to getting conquest points iLvl gear from random BG's?

[rda]

Honestly stopped reading there, that isn't how scaling works in PvP. It's scaled by ilvl, so yes, you should measure by ilvl. But if you don't know the basics of how the system works there's no real reason to discuss it with you.

You are correct, I forgot about stats dictated by the ilvl. I know how the system works alright, it was an honest mistake, I was choosing a piece that would weigh about 3% from the armory, forgot to convert.

It should be awfully convenient for you that I made this mistake to pretend that obviously other things I am saying are wrong, too.

Feel free to theorize about 3% being "not a lot" just because you think it's not a lot, too afraid (oh, no, obviously, it's "cba") to do a live experiment.

[Deleted]

I'm fairly certain there's no base-ilvl 880 PvP gear in Legion.

The current base-ilvl of PvP gear is:
- 830 for unranked (craftable lookalike)
- 840 for ranked (LFR/normal/heroic tier-set lookalike/recolor)
- 870 ranked ELITE (mythic tier-set lookalike, drops only on high ratings)

After that titanforged/warforged gets applied completely randomly. I'm currently using a 855 +STR and haste trinket i got from a random unranked BG the other day.

[Rucati]

You are correct, I forgot about stats dictated by the ilvl. I know how the system works alright, it was an honest mistake, I was choosing a piece that would weigh about 3% from the armory, forgot to convert.

It should be awfully convenient for you that I made this mistake to pretend that obviously other things I am saying are wrong, too.

Wow, since you actually admitted you were wrong there I'll go back and read what you wrote and formulate a response before I go to sleep.

Second, go ahead and try it. No, seriously, go ahead and try. I get that you think you won't drop very much bla bla bla bla, but that's because you somehow think you can compare two different scales (skill vs stats) by eye, and you don't (and, yes, I believe I can do this better because I am converting skill to numbers first - imperfectly, but the order should be fine). I doubt you are going to convince your teammates to drop their waists same as you, but if you by any chance manage to do this, please play 30 matches after that and report the difference in rating. It is going to be (a) negative, and (b) in the hundreds (but I guess you'll just stop when you will see that you are losing too much and convince yourself that it's a bad day or bad matchups or that you have more important things to do than play arenas today, etc).

Your "skill is significantly more important than gear" looks fine, but it lacks qualifications. How much skill is equal to how much gear? You happen to think that 3% gear is little and, I don't know, 200 MMR is a lot. While in fact, it might be - and, I argue, is - the reverse. But don't take my word for it, go and experiment for yourself.

Not too sure where you're getting your numbers from, but I can say with 100% certainty there is no way I drop 200 mmr from 3% stat decrease. I think I'd drop maybe 50 mmr over 30 games, but I mean obviously you'd have to play hundreds to get any sort of legit data. Also I imagine it would depend a bit on comp, I play a heavy CC comp so it wouldn't impact me nearly as badly as it would impact a cleave comp since when most games end we have CC to spare.

There's plenty of proof out there of rank 1 players boosting undergeared accounts to Glad range, because when you're better than your opponents you can overcome a gear deficit. A rank 1 RMP will get Glad with 10% less stats because they know how to control their opponents so much that they rarely take lots of damage and will land a kill without too much trouble probably up to 2200.

3% stats just really isn't very much, the only real downside to it would be the decrease in health with how ridiculous burst is right now. The damage stats would be more or less meaningless for a lot of comps. I really don't think it'd make nearly as big of a difference as you think it does.

[rda]

^^ In other words, you won't do any experiments, because you know it all already and you know it already because you just know, period. Sure.

Your "proof" that 3% isn't a lot is this: "3% stats just really isn't very much". That and some war stories about some glads sometimes beating some overgeared people (to which twitch archives have different war stories). I don't really care, but maybe after some time you realize that that's all you really have.

[killbill]

They could give you 880 ilevel items but not BiS i.e. with only versality or stamina stat (anything that does not increase your dps a lot which is very important to some people). Most important here is just the ilevel. My mistweaver equip all agility gears since it has higher level ww gears when doing random bgs.

[rda]

(Merged. )

[Deleted]

They increased the chance to get gear drops from arena too, but they just didn't make it 100% like in BGs because arenas are about 5x faster. But I guess you can't read or you'd have seen that in the patch notes.

I never said it was extra fun, I said if you're just playing for fun and not competitively 3% is completely irrelevant. I can say with 100% certainty that I could beat anyone that complains about 3% stats while I was 3% under them, because it's an irrelevant number and at that point skill plays a much higher role, and everyone decent knows that.

You can still progress your character, it just isn't super fast. How would it be fun for casual players to play BGs for two days and have full 880 gear and not be able to progress anymore for months?

1st win of the week in 2s and 3s had 100% chance to give an item prior to 7.1. After 7.1 you need 10 wins to get the same weekly item. Prior to 7.1 I could get 2 wins (cause it was both 2s and 3s) with 100% chance to get 2 items + boxes. How do I see that increase in gear drops after 7.1 with 2 wins per week exactly? Please show me the patch notes that explains this and I'll promise to read it...

I'm still not certain what point "that point" is where skills plays a much higher role. 2 equally skilled players on perfectly balanced chars(lets pretend...) - you're saying 3% on all stats doesn't matter? Keywords here being "equally skilled".

It's like you assume "playing for fun" means "I don't give a sh*t if I win or loose nor do I care how I perform... I just join the queue, smash the buttons and don't care about the results". If the other guy is equally or better skilled AND have an ilvl advantage, how are your chances of winning?

Nobody said anything about "two days and have full 880". You asked why they would give raid quality gear for a BG? They give raid quality gear for WQ's... I fail to see the difference...

[meathead]

Since 7.1 you always get a piece of gear every BG/RBG win.

as i said before welcome to rift 3.0 the patch that destroyed any and all pvp and half the game itself

wow copied rifts new "gear" system almost 100% yeah i know why would wow copy a system that destroyed and entire game lol.

in rift you get a crappy piece of of gear for even bg win- its rng and nothing more then vendor trash. the item can be upgraded a few times but even then its 1 1/2 tiers behind bis raid gear = lame.

world pvp is dead as is dueling and players have quit rift left and right = rift is a ghost town. know who loves the change?= pvers/raiders becasue they have bis raid gear for both pvp and pve and the same is happing in wow = sad.

[Dottzx]

There is no Honor/Conquest now, and you can't buy relevant gear like before Legion. Everything is RNG drops and you'll be extremely lucky to get a high lvl item or Legendary from instances other than Mythic PvE or upper-level Rated PvP. Even then you will get duplicates or items that are not best optimized for your spec.

So it's grind...grind...and grind some more. Legion is like WoD's RNG in Ashran or 3 RBG wins a week for BiS trinks...but on steroids and for all items. Except the Artifact weapon which itself is a separate, long ass grind.

Very few people like it that's for sure.

This guy summed it up well

im not sure why blizzard went in this direction for pvp gearing. i really dont think ive ever heard of people saying "the way i have to gear up for pvp is bad." Dont get me wrong, people did complain about the barrier to entry to pvp as a fresh max level player (basically getting 1 shot in bgs by people with more gear) but that problem was solved with pvp templates and the 10 ilvl = 1% stats. why they also made the ENTIRETY of the pvp gearing system RNG is beyond me and i cant think of a good reason why this new system was put in place of the tried and true conquest/honor system.

[Hye Jin]

Pretty sure you can only get 880 gear from being like 2k+ in arenas. I *highly* doubt you'll ever get much past 850 from random BGs, why would they give you raid quality gear for a BG? Especially if you get a piece every win now. If you got 880 gear from BGs you'd outgear a player that does heroic raids in a couple of days.

But serious question, if all you do is random BGs why in the world do you care about having 880 gear?

I care about 880 gear because it's allowed to wear in BG's. If max iLevel in BG's was 840 gear, I would care about 840 gear

[A dot Ham]

The only thing I do in WoW is playing a few Random Battlegrounds a week. No organized activities because organizing often takes longer than the time I actually have. I just wanna spend my 20 mins on a match.
Since Legion I noticed that things have changed (gear matters less) and I also noticed that I am only getting iLevel 835 gear from boxes. I wanna have iLevel 880 from boxes. Is it a matter of luck? or doesn't it drop from Random Battleground rewards?
If it's impossible to get iLevel 880 from Random BG boxes I might as well delete WoW from my pc.

Shitty 2 part system is shitty.

Don't fix shit that isn't broken.

[Caolela]

Regardless, I'm fairly certain we wouldn't drop very much at all. The difference isn't nearly as big as people seem to think, unless everyone just forgot previous expansions. Reckful got rank 1 back in MoP on a Rogue in blues/greens, which would be about a 50% decrease, or when he did it with weapons equipped from a previous expansion (forget when that was, maybe Wrath?). Or that Hunter whose name I forget that got 1900 in 2s in Burning Crusade wearing nothing but ring/trinket/neck/weapon.

Not sure if I quite remember correctly, but wasn't Combat in MoP OP to start with, or with the Legendaries? Same for hunters in BC? I seem to recall a guildie bud in 5.2 or 5.3 MoP who was rogue and we simply smashed face in 2s for a few weeks (me on Destro). Capped out in minutes really. This whole line of "reasoning" is caca.

So is thinking that a few percent diff in PvP is nothing. It adds up and especially when you may have teammates who equally outgear your opponents. "All else being equal" ofc.

Listen guys - let's stop the brainless shilling for Blizzes fucked up system and call it what it is. It won't help to improve things if you simply accept this crap or pretend it's not the abortion that it is.

[Deleted]

i like it when pve players say, doesn't matter, its only a small % you re behind in power due to item level, doesn't matter, it's only a few traits you re missing due to being behind in artifact power, doesn't matter that having a pvp-way character progression isn't a viable way to play the game anymore, you still have the joys of pvping, doesn't matter wpvp quality went out the window due to not having template support, doesn't matter this, doesn't matter that..

just look at pvp participation this season and you 'll see if it matters on not (to the core of pvp players that is..), its between half and one third of wod's last season. Despite legion having i don't know, twice the number of players atm?

[Deleted]

i like it when pve players say, doesn't matter, its only a small % you re behind in power due to item level, doesn't matter, it's only a few traits you re missing due to being behind in artifact power, doesn't matter that having a pvp-way character progression isn't a viable way to play the game anymore, you still have the joys of pvping, doesn't matter wpvp quality went out the window due to not having template support, doesn't matter this, doesn't matter that..

just look at pvp participation this season and you 'll see if it matters on not (to the core of pvp players that is..), its between half and one third of wod's last season. Despite legion having i don't know, twice the number of players atm?

I'd categorize myself as being a (now casual) PvE player and imo a bunch of "small % differences and traits" matters way more in PvP than they do in PvE. It's also why I don't fully understand the idea behind PvP progression in Legion.
Reducing the effect of ilvl is fine since it puts more focus on skill and the same goes for disabling the special procs and on-use from trinkets. Honor talents are also a nice idea to make a PvP specific progression without totally wrecking skill balance and the honor-farming required isn't crazy. Then there is the artifacts which completely blows this into PvE ballpark. AP and traits means so much in terms of char progression for PvP and you need to farm a sh*t-ton of PvP to get any meaningful AP compared to PvE farming. Missing an alt for a new comp in PvP? Forget it.. AP-gate is blocking you and even more than for PvE where you can make do without the "few %" unless it's cutting edge progression.