[Disc] Ne'ro, Band of Promises

[Deleted]

Well, I just got this ring a couple of days ago , as my 3rd legendary (first two being the belt and Sephuz). Pretty disappointing to hear that it out right clashes with our main healing mechanic. I got that you can save some mana occasionally but it just feels like bad design to make a legendary item (like something you should really be excited about) that in order to do something makes you use your raid cd against all logic when you don't need to actually seriously heal (in which case you'd have atonements up). On top of that, the stats are meh.

Why exactly is this a legendary?

[PosPosPos]

Well, I just got this ring a couple of days ago , as my 3rd legendary (first two being the belt and Sephuz). Pretty disappointing to hear that it out right clashes with our main healing mechanic. I got that you can save some mana occasionally but it just feels like bad design to make a legendary item (like something you should really be excited about) that in order to do something makes you use your raid cd against all logic when you don't need to actually seriously heal (in which case you'd have atonements up). On top of that, the stats are meh.

Why exactly is this a legendary?

Umm, people standing in the barrier take damage and this ring allows you to heal everyone in it without losing mana aside from barrier's cost? Now, combine it with BFTD....

[Deleted]

At first when you think about how we all thought it was supposed to work vs how it actually works the initial reaction is to see it as a let down because we where expecting insane burst double dip healing, but PosPosPos and the others are right Disc is already capable of topping off the raid in an instant so the idea of doubling that amount of healing on top of a damage reduction is something that will be next to useless unless all players have more then double the HP we will have at the end of this expansion.

[Puupi]

Umm, people standing in the barrier take damage and this ring allows you to heal everyone in it without losing mana aside from barrier's cost? Now, combine it with BFTD....

In5manseveryonehasatonementalready24/7

ps.idontknowwhymyspacestoppedworking

[Deleted]

Umm, people standing in the barrier take damage and this ring allows you to heal everyone in it without losing mana aside from barrier's cost? Now, combine it with BFTD....

I got a bit confused by the wording in the tooltip, so went to check it and clarify things (I know I should have from the start, but schedule's been a bit of a pain lately). The wording I got confused about is the fact that it just says your penance heals people in the barrier, but doesn't mention the heal classed as atonement, so I didn't think it would be affected by Barrier of the Devoted. I know it was clear in that test posted above, but yepp, my brains were kinda fuzzed yesterday after 8 hours of sleep in 3 days.

So this basically simulates having atonement for penance alone inside the barrier.
Now, I know theoretically having both atonement up for intensive healing and barrier might be overkill sometimes (and sometimes not), but it always felt to me that barrier shines in those situations where the dmg is high enough to make people dying a risk, which means that even with the reduction of dmg, they will still be left with less than half health - and you will want to heal that up - in which case you will have prepared atonements on people - making the whole effect of the ring useless. Yes, you can say that barrier and the heal from just penance should be enough to get people off the risk edge, but it still doesn't feel right to have a legendary basically working against your class mechanic. It's already tied to a 3 minutes cd, the fact that it gets nullified by something you do naturally during an encounter makes it even more situational.

And then there's 5 mans. Where you will always have atonements up for high dmg phases, making this useless.

I'm not familiar to other classes legendaries, but why do disc ones feel like they all have a downside? The belt is nice with the penance proc, but you need to spam smite and sometimes you don't really want to do that in raids. The chest haste is nice but in order to get the proc you need to cast something that gets very expensive with the number of targets. Half of the gloves effect is never seen because it's tied to a bad talent. It's like every single one of them is made to work fully if you play your spec wrong. I find it hilarious that everybody and their dog is complaining about Prydaz, but it's probably the clearest net gain for us, and don't get me started on Sephuz, (freshly buffed) for a class with no interrupt. I still shudder every time I fear in mythic+.

I understand it can be a mana gain, and that is golden for us atm. It still feels as lame as putting on your best dress to go to the corner shop to buy bread. Sure, at the end of the day you need to eat, but something just feels wasted. I find the flavor text on it to be quite ironic.
Overall, I find my feelings towards legendaries for disc more along the "well...better than nothing I guess" than in the "woopwoopwoop" domain. If I wanted a legendary to make me gain mana, I'd have preferred a "your penance has a x% chance to cost no mana" and called it a day. Or I'd have cheered for an item that allows me to ban dps proc trinkets from my loot table. At least the mages I'm running m+ with are happy, several of them got very good trinkets from me.

Edit TLDR: Yes, I understand it's still a gain. It just feels disjointed, and hardly "legendary". I've seen people more excited by a good trinket than I was by this. I might trade this for an amalgam and feel I got a good deal.

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At first when you think about how we all thought it was supposed to work vs how it actually works the initial reaction is to see it as a let down because we where expecting insane burst double dip healing, but PosPosPos and the others are right Disc is already capable of topping off the raid in an instant so the idea of doubling that amount of healing on top of a damage reduction is something that will be next to useless unless all players have more then double the HP we will have at the end of this expansion.

Well...what are the odds of players having double the health at the end of the expansion? Clearly never happened before?
So double dipping will sometimes overheal (and sometimes not). Then let it godamn overheal, not like having more (situational) overhealing than we already do on a 3 mins cd is gonna break the class. And it might actually make that legendary useful in 5 mans.

[PosPosPos]

I got a bit confused by the wording in the tooltip, so went to check it and clarify things (I know I should have from the start, but schedule's been a bit of a pain lately). The wording I got confused about is the fact that it just says your penance heals people in the barrier, but doesn't mention the heal classed as atonement, so I didn't think it would be affected by Barrier of the Devoted. I know it was clear in that test posted above, but yepp, my brains were kinda fuzzed yesterday after 8 hours of sleep in 3 days.

So this basically simulates having atonement for penance alone inside the barrier.
Now, I know theoretically having both atonement up for intensive healing and barrier might be overkill sometimes (and sometimes not), but it always felt to me that barrier shines in those situations where the dmg is high enough to make people dying a risk, which means that even with the reduction of dmg, they will still be left with less than half health - and you will want to heal that up - in which case you will have prepared atonements on people - making the whole effect of the ring useless. Yes, you can say that barrier and the heal from just penance should be enough to get people off the risk edge, but it still doesn't feel right to have a legendary basically working against your class mechanic. It's already tied to a 3 minutes cd, the fact that it gets nullified by something you do naturally during an encounter makes it even more situational.

And then there's 5 mans. Where you will always have atonements up for high dmg phases, making this useless.

I'm not familiar to other classes legendaries, but why do disc ones feel like they all have a downside? The belt is nice with the penance proc, but you need to spam smite and sometimes you don't really want to do that in raids. The chest haste is nice but in order to get the proc you need to cast something that gets very expensive with the number of targets. Half of the gloves effect is never seen because it's tied to a bad talent. It's like every single one of them is made to work fully if you play your spec wrong. I find it hilarious that everybody and their dog is complaining about Prydaz, but it's probably the clearest net gain for us, and don't get me started on Sephuz, (freshly buffed) for a class with no interrupt. I still shudder every time I fear in mythic+.

I understand it can be a mana gain, and that is golden for us atm. It still feels as lame as putting on your best dress to go to the corner shop to buy bread. Sure, at the end of the day you need to eat, but something just feels wasted. I find the flavor text on it to be quite ironic.
Overall, I find my feelings towards legendaries for disc more along the "well...better than nothing I guess" than in the "woopwoopwoop" domain. If I wanted a legendary to make me gain mana, I'd have preferred a "your penance has a x% chance to cost no mana" and called it a day. Or I'd have cheered for an item that allows me to ban dps proc trinkets from my loot table. At least the mages I'm running m+ with are happy, several of them got very good trinkets from me.

Edit TLDR: Yes, I understand it's still a gain. It just feels disjointed, and hardly "legendary". I've seen people more excited by a good trinket than I was by this. I might trade this for an amalgam and feel I got a good deal.

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Well...what are the odds of players having double the health at the end of the expansion? Clearly never happened before?
So double dipping will sometimes overheal (and sometimes not). Then let it godamn overheal, not like having more (situational) overhealing than we already do on a 3 mins cd is gonna break the class. And it might actually make that legendary useful in 5 mans.

As long as you don't forget that barrier already greatly reduces raid damage taken. Unless it's for very fringe situations(Cenarius and 8+ stack on M ilgy), I wouldn't stack CDs or atone for barrier.

[Deleted]

As long as you don't forget that barrier already greatly reduces raid damage taken. Unless it's for very fringe situations(Cenarius and 8+ stack on M ilgy), I wouldn't stack CDs or atone for barrier.

Obviously I'm not forgetting that part, and I'm well aware that in some situations both atonement and the ring could be overkill - while in others it won't be. I'm sure other legendaries can cause overhealing as well, and nobody is complaining. I fail to see the satisfaction I should get that I'm getting a stunted version of my class mechanic (albeit mana free) once every 3 minutes that is over-written by my class mechanic.
Upsides for letting it double dip:
- makes the item versatile, making it usable in both raids and dungeons.
- scales well with gear, as our healthpools will increase. I'm aware our healing will increase as well.
- offers you the choice in gaining mana or gaining throughput.
Downsides:
- it will overheal sometimes.

So tell me, does it break the game in any way if it double dips? Does it make disc priests mandatory for progression? Does it make priests that don't have it unable to keep up with the ones that do (not that blizzard cares a lot about that)?

[PosPosPos]

Obviously I'm not forgetting that part, and I'm well aware that in some situations both atonement and the ring could be overkill - while in others it won't be. I'm sure other legendaries can cause overhealing as well, and nobody is complaining. I fail to see the satisfaction I should get that I'm getting a stunted version of my class mechanic (albeit mana free) once every 3 minutes that is over-written by my class mechanic.
Upsides for letting it double dip:
- makes the item versatile, making it usable in both raids and dungeons.
- scales well with gear, as our healthpools will increase. I'm aware our healing will increase as well.
- offers you the choice in gaining mana or gaining throughput.
Downsides:
- it will overheal sometimes.

So tell me, does it break the game in any way if it double dips? Does it make disc priests mandatory for progression? Does it make priests that don't have it unable to keep up with the ones that do (not that blizzard cares a lot about that)?

/shrug

The ring is better than many other legendaries we can have as is. If you really want to talk about having a "legendary feeling" effect, then look to Sephuz and the pain sup bracers first.

[Deleted]

/shrug

The ring is better than many other legendaries we can have as is. If you really want to talk about having a "legendary feeling" effect, then look to Sephuz and the pain sup bracers first.

I'm the proud owner of a Sephuz too. It's actually better in mythic+ than N'ero. My other legendary (yes, I am lucky to have gotten 3) is the belt - and it's actually the one that feels best, regardless of the fact that I often think I should spam less smites and conserve godamn mana. Heck, if it procs are the right time, I might get a 2nd penance under barrier and double the effect of N'ero.
And yes, I agree N'ero is better than sephuz or wrists in raids. I still don't get the parsimony on it. And us saying "well, it would overheal in half the cases" (disclaimer: random %) sounds too much like saying the grapes were sour anyway.

[Xepperoni]

For me, it all comes back to the fact that the ring is Crit/Mastery and has no Haste on it, and the fact that rings don't have Int means the 910 ilvl isn't even a big deal.

So because you're already sacrificing 4% Haste and thus a non-trivial amount of efficiency throughout the entirety of every encounter just to equip the ring in the first place, the effect has to be pretty significant to warrant that sacrifice. And it simply isn't.

Even on a fight like Odyn where there are ample opportunities to get the whole raid to stack for massive raid-wide damage mechanics (if you can even manage to train your guild to do that reliably), it still only affects your Penance, and it only gives you a benefit if you don't apply Atonements beforehand, which means no Sins of the Many, which means that one and a half Penance casts you get to use in the duration of the PW:B heals the entire raid for a WHOPPING... 400k? Maybe? One time. In the entire fight. Wowee, what a game changer. LEGENDARY, in fact.

Just from reading the tooltip, I get the impression that the effect was supposed to allow Penance to heal everybody in the bubble for the full amount of your Penance, regardless of whether they have Atonement or not. As if you had The Penitent talent and casted Penance on everybody in the bubble directly. It's almost like whoever wrote that tooltip miscommunicated the intended outcome to the developer who created the actual item.

[PosPosPos]

And yes, I agree N'ero is better than sephuz or wrists in raids. I still don't get the parsimony on it. And us saying "well, it would overheal in half the cases" (disclaimer: random %) sounds too much like saying the grapes were sour anyway.

Really. Even on encounters with the damage to support BFTD + LW, you would be lucky to even have overhealing ratios as low as 60.

[Raiz]

Just got a 2nd legendary : Sephuz.

Bad luck protection ? Yeah right.

Can someone tell me how to proc that #@$% ? Tried mind control and Shinning force, they both don't work.

I'm out of idea. Even my 855 purple ring feels better because it has more haste in it. Please tell me there's something that can proc it because both of my legendaries kind of suck for m+ T_T

Edit : nevermind I got it to proc off MC. But a lot of mobs are immune to it, and if you take the talent Dominant mind, you can proc it only once every 2 min. Great.
I'm not even sure if the next patch gonna be better... Hopefully there are enough debuff so I can dispell...

Edit 2 : and it procs off fear too. Great. What should I do ? Put both of them in the bank and get rings with haste ? x)
Man, what a letdown.

[Jimjam38]

I'm the proud owner of a Sephuz too. It's actually better in mythic+ than N'ero. My other legendary (yes, I am lucky to have gotten 3) is the belt - and it's actually the one that feels best, regardless of the fact that I often think I should spam less smites and conserve godamn mana. Heck, if it procs are the right time, I might get a 2nd penance under barrier and double the effect of N'ero.
And yes, I agree N'ero is better than sephuz or wrists in raids. I still don't get the parsimony on it. And us saying "well, it would overheal in half the cases" (disclaimer: random %) sounds too much like saying the grapes were sour anyway.

We've actually done the theory behind the belt, way back in beta when that belt's effect was still baseline for disc.
Basically, to get the most efficiency out of it, you want to follow up every penance with an immediate single cast of smite. This maximises the amount of CD reduced over the duration of a fight, for the least amount of time and mana spent on smite. Every subsequent smite you cast becomes less efficient, since the amount of time left for it to reset continues to decline.

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Just got a 2nd legendary : Sephuz.

Bad luck protection ? Yeah right.

Can someone tell me how to proc that #@$% ? Tried mind control and Shinning force, they both don't work.

I'm out of idea. Even my 855 purple ring feels better because it has more haste in it. Please tell me there's something that can proc it because both of my legendaries kind of suck for m+ T_T

Edit : nevermind I got it to proc off MC. But a lot of mobs are immune to it, and if you take the talent Dominant mind, you can proc it only once every 2 min. Great.
I'm not even sure if the next patch gonna be better... Hopefully there are enough debuff so I can dispell...

Edit 2 : and it procs off fear too. Great. What should I do ? Put both of them in the bank and get rings with haste ? x)
Man, what a letdown.

It's absolute dogshit at the moment, impossible to proc in a raid for a healing priest, and still problematic to proc in a dungeon.
However, after patch 7.1.5 it's amazing, because it will be a 25% haste proc (so buffed by 10%), and can't be procced from dispelling. When you can dispel every 30s, you basically get 33% uptime on 25% haste, so it's roughly equal to 8.3% static haste.

Then you can proc it on nyth (mythic, mcs, get someone to dot up, dispel the dots), ilgynoth, dragons, cenarius, xavius, guarm, helya.
Only fights you can't will be ursoc, elerethe renferal and odyn.

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About Ne'ro:
While I agree its more lackluster than it sounds from the tooltip (or less lackluster, depending on how you interpreted it), I think there's more to it than most give it credit.

Realistically, there's only a handful of fights where its really worth combining a big burst with a full stacked barrier.

Way I see the ring is it allows us to throw down barrier more reactively, and still get a good heal out of it, without having to spend time and mana setting up for it.

But that aside, I think you are underestimating the value of a penance heal with Ne'ro.

So, lets say the whole raid is stacked under barrier, and you have Ne'ro

Using my character's stats, Castigation Penance will do ~400k damage without sins, which is ~200k healing, per person. So thats 200k*20 = ~4mil healing. This is then doubled for barrier for the devoted, so ~8mil healing in under 2 seconds.
If you have a PotDS proc, its ~600k damage, which is ~300k healing per person, which is ~6mil healing, doubled by barrier for the devoted, so ~12 mil healing in under 2 seconds.
And, you can get 2 penances during barrier, if timed well, using a Borrowed Time proc to maximise the speed of the second cast.
So a likely 8-12 mil healing with a potential 16 - 24 mil healing if there's still healing to be done by the 2nd cast of penance. For comparison, looking at the top ranking resto druids, the absolute best you can get from a tranq is ~15 mil, but generally a well timed tranq will do ~10-12 mil.
Honestly, Ne'ro is a pretty solid heal even at the lower end, for very little mana spent. It lets you reallocate mana for more bursts for damage that can't be stacked for barrier, while still letting you do pretty good healing for stacked barriers, at very little mana cost. If you have the Legendary belt and get lucky with penance procs, the potential healing is ridiculous, for very little mana and setup time.

In terms of stats it isn't ideal, but I'm actually starting to find that there isn't a lot to be gained going much beyond 30% haste. It certainly feels like the 'soft cap' in terms of haste's smoothing effect on our rotation and prepburst, and it's definitely approaching the point where crit, vers and mastery begin to outweigh haste due to stat interactions.
In that case, the crit on Ne'ro is actually pretty desirable, and mastery as we all know only gets more valuable as we get better at the spec, and actually improves the ring's effect, by increasing the amount of damage transferred to healing from the penance.




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