hypothetical election scenario question

[anyaka21]

So, say Hillary gets elected. What happens if even more wikileaks comes out, and she ends up getting indicted and jailed and never takes office.

Does that then make Kaine the President elect? And if that's the case, that's kind of messed up. Basically, choose a pawn/shill to be your VP and even if you go to jail, they end up being the mouthpiece of the same corrupt person that got jailed.

Seems to me that a new election would be in order.

Further, say it happened after she took office, Kaine would obviously become the new President. Still a messed up system because they are all hand picked cabinet members, VP, etc...

Seems to me, again, that a new election should take place because everyone in their cabinet should be kicked out, and a new election should happen.

Granted, this is hypthetical conspiracy level stuff, but could make for interesting discussion. So please keep it within the topic.

Thoughts?

[Vanyali]

Your entire premise rests on not understanding what the election is for.

When someone is elected, they're elected to become president on the next term. After the election they are the president for x year regardless of events between now and then. If they die or otherwise can't server, the VP takes over as that's what the VP exists for. That you have some delusion of jail time doesn't mean the system is corrupt when it's working exactly as it's intended.

[anyaka21]

Your entire premise rests on not understanding what the election is for.

When someone is elected, they're elected to become president on the next term. After the election they are the president for x year regardless of events between now and then. If they die or otherwise can't server, the VP takes over as that's what the VP exists for. That you have some delusion of jail time doesn't mean the system is corrupt when it's working exactly as it's intended.

That's kind of my point though. It would be working as intended, which seems to make it broken.

[Deletedaccount1]

How would a new election take place so soon? A regular campaign season is a year and a half. Would Kaine be the president for that long in your scenario OP?

[Vanyali]

That's kind of my point though. It would be working as intended, which seems to make it broken.

Again: you don't understand the way the system works, and yell that it's broken because you don't understand.

[Ragedaug]

If a winning Presidential candidate dies or becomes incapacitated between the counting of electoral votes in Congress and the inauguration, the Vice President elect will become President, according to Section 3 of the 20th Amendment.

Looks like they already thought of that scenario.

[Wyshbonez]

As far as i know, no kaine wouldnt become president since hillary was never sworn in, conspiracy theorists are well thinking that it might happen, that hillary does get indicted, and since nobody has been sworn in to assume presidency obama stays in office until someone can since well if shes indicted goes to jail, never being sworn in kaine is nothing and until there can be an interum election pretty much thats how obama gets a third term

[anyaka21]

Again: you don't understand the way the system works, and yell that it's broken because you don't understand.

That's the thing though, I do understand how the system works, but I basically don't agree with it. Mainly, because you end up with a 2nd rate carbon copy of the person that was or would be President.


And in response to Knadra, sure a campaign season is that long, but it definitely doesn't have to be. You still have the main contenders that took 2nd in the primaries.

You could also ask the same thing in terms of Trump, if he wins and this pedo thing reignites and it turns out he did ride on Epsteins "Lolita Express", then Pence becomes Pres. But realistically, all they are are mouthpieces of the former. Again, shouldn't they all be kicked out or not given the chance to run the country?

[Vanyali]

That's the thing though, I do understand how the system works, but I basically don't agree with it. Mainly, because you end up with a 2nd rate carbon copy of the person that was or would be President.


And in response to Knadra, sure a campaign season is that long, but it definitely doesn't have to be. You still have the main contenders that took 2nd in the primaries.

You could also ask the same thing in terms of Trump, if he wins and this pedo thing reignites and it turns out he did ride on Epsteins "Lolita Express", then Pence becomes Pres. But realistically, all they are are mouthpieces of the former. Again, shouldn't they all be kicked out or not given the chance to run the country?

Too bad if you don't agree with it?

People vote for a president team for x term. The leader of said team being magically whisked away doesn't mean you get to disregard everyone that voted for the team so you can try to win again. THAT is actually a massive threat to democracy, and a bullshit way to try to win. Not to mention that every time someone won the election they'd be mysteriously sued before being sworn in and become ineligble for one reason or another.

[Calfredd]

You could also ask the same thing in terms of Trump, if he wins and this pedo thing reignites and it turns out he did ride on Epsteins "Lolita Express", then Pence becomes Pres. But realistically, all they are are mouthpieces of the former. Again, shouldn't they all be kicked out or not given the chance to run the country?

Well they aren't going to pick people who are diametrically opposed to all of their ideals now are they?

[Wells]

Why would Wikileaks wait on something that could actually indict her?

- - - Updated - - -

As far as i know, no kaine wouldnt become president since hillary was never sworn in, conspiracy theorists are well thinking that it might happen, that hillary does get indicted, and since nobody has been sworn in to assume presidency obama stays in office until someone can since well if shes indicted goes to jail, never being sworn in kaine is nothing and until there can be an interum election pretty much thats how obama gets a third term

Once the election is concluded, the VP-elect will take office if the President-elect is unable to. No do-overs.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

And in response to Knadra, sure a campaign season is that long, but it definitely doesn't have to be. You still have the main contenders that took 2nd in the primaries.

They would still have to run all the primaries again.

You could also ask the same thing in terms of Trump, if he wins and this pedo thing reignites and it turns out he did ride on Epsteins "Lolita Express", then Pence becomes Pres. But realistically, all they are are mouthpieces of the former. Again, shouldn't they all be kicked out or not given the chance to run the country?

It's called continuity of government and it's a pretty big deal. There's a clear line of succession. VP takes over if the President dies/unavailable, if both Pres and VP die...Speaker of the House takes over...and so on

[TrumpIsPresident]

The time between Nov 9 and Jan 20 is when we have a President-Elect.

They and their ticket are the President-Elect after votes have been tallied.

During that time if Clinton is convicted of her crimes then her VP becomes the President-Elect and then come Jan 20, The President.

Now if shes already in office then she would have to be impeached on one of the conditions which allows for the possibility of removal per Articles 4 of the Constitution.

"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

But it doesn't end there because to be impeached is just to have impeachment charges brought by the House.

The Senate tries the impeachment to determine a conviction and that is when a President can be removed.

Think of the House as the DA who brings the charges, and the Senate as the judge/jury who rule upon them.

If Hillary were to be impeached and convicted she could be removed from office and the VP would take over.

[Wells]

God I hope they try to impeach her over those emails.

[Skroe]

The US has no provision for any Presidential election that isn't every 4 years. I don't know how it being "in order" means anything. This isn't a parliamentary democracy.

If Hillary Clinton were arrested, for example, she would still be President. The only way to remove her from office is a successful conviction after impeachment or her resignation. Should either happen within the first two years, Tim Kaine would become President (not Acting-President) and it would count has his first term. After the first two years, it would not, as happened with Lyndon Johnson after Kennedy was assassinated. Acting President's only happen when a President is temporarily indisposed, such as when under anesthesia for surgery. They are not canonically-counted Presidents.

Kaine would have won an election in his own right - that for Vice President, regardless. And he would appoint a Vice President. Should Kaine have to resign, the Vice President would become President under the 25th Amendment despite being unelected. This is the exact scenario this country went through when Nixon's VP Spiro Agnew resigned and he appointed House Minority Leader Gerald Ford as VP. Gerald Ford became President without winning a national election.

The 25th Amendment cleared pretty much all of this up.


In any event, Republicans are going to be a bit busy with the Republican Civil War.