Why do Alts have to NOT be "grindy?"

[Wondercrab]

Well played, the title took me in, but the avatar was too obvious.

[Jaylock]

Simple. It can be interesting to grind through things once on your main, but it's terribly boring to have to do it again on your alt. World content is easy and the fun comes from exploration and seeing the story. That is significantly less interesting when you already know the story and all the zones.

Challenging content is still fun on an alt because playing a different class means the experience is fundamentally different and also often means seeing things from a new perspective.

And I don't care about arguments about grinding being some rite of passage that alts have to go through to somehow deserve the chance to get to the end game. If it's not fun it should go. And redoing the leveling grind is not fun for me.

You still get the benefit of having another max level character, so the very fact that you have another character is the benefit. I don't think players should have any sort of extra benefit in terms of less grind just because they chose to fill out a barn of alts. If you want the gear, the rep, the other benefits, you should have to put nearly as much effort into them as your main. Gone are the days of 12 alts max level raid ready. I had nearly 100 alts leveled up to level 100 during WoD because there was little punishment for not having that many, and much more incentive to have more alts than not.

[tikcol]

So many super casuals here.

Why can't you handle the fact that you have to put effort in everything in life, including video games, to get rewarded accordingly?

[Eleccybubb]

I find it kinda funny people seemed to be so busy falling over themselves to tell Jaylock to sod off they refused to accept he was making a cogent argument.

It's sad. They just look at the OP and post nonsense or flame him. Despite whether he has a constructive thread or not.

[darklogrus]

It's sad. They just look at the OP and post nonsense or flame him. Despite whether he has a constructive thread or not.

Its probably because 99 times out of 100 his threads and comments are nothing more then trolling flame baits.

As for the question the same thing could be said about the off-spec. It didn't earn the 2800% AK, it didn't earn the Pvp ranks or the gear that came along with it. Why should it benefit from my mains effort.

[Deleted]

Because it's really boring to do the same trivial shit all over again.

[shonist]

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why do you feel that your alt characters should have an easier time completing things and gearing up compared to your main? They are their own SEPARATE character from your main, so logic would dictate that it should take just as much time and effort into gearing and doing things on that character as any other character.

This whole mindset that alts need to take less time to level up, less time to do professions, less time to gear up is just unfounded. Guess what, in TBC, if you wanted a second character, you leveled up, got into normal dungeons, grinded the rep to revered with all the heroic dungeon factions, did attunement to Kara, went linearly through the raid tiers, JUST. LIKE. YOUR. MAIN.

So last question, why is it an expectation that one should have 12 equally geared and raid ready characters these days?

the same reason that you call it "main". if you put them all the same effort, they are not main/alts. just characters. like i do.

[Jazzhands]

No that was MMO's a decade ago. The levelling process is peanuts but people want variety more and more thus why Blizzard is pushing faster content, players won't tolerate doing the same tasks over and over again to long

- - - Updated - - -

I think people confuse what content they want easier on alts. It isn't levelling and it isn't gear it's the designed timegates they want lifting because they're designed for mains only such as atunements and Suramar rep

No, that's current MMOs. I've done over 200 runs of the same 10 dungeons since legion launch. I've been doing the same WQs. Leveled 2 characters to 110, a third on the way, all by doing the same quests in the same zone. New content is only new the first time its done. ToV is no longer new content to me despite being out a day, because I've already done it.

Also, attunement are all account wide now. No need to do suramar rep on alts unless you need recipes.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Because in WoW there are 12 classes, 30+ specs, and it's absolutely moronic to limit people to just 1 class or spec.

[SirBeef]

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why do you feel that your alt characters should have an easier time completing things and gearing up compared to your main? They are their own SEPARATE character from your main, so logic would dictate that it should take just as much time and effort into gearing and doing things on that character as any other character.

This whole mindset that alts need to take less time to level up, less time to do professions, less time to gear up is just unfounded. Guess what, in TBC, if you wanted a second character, you leveled up, got into normal dungeons, grinded the rep to revered with all the heroic dungeon factions, did attunement to Kara, went linearly through the raid tiers, JUST. LIKE. YOUR. MAIN.

So last question, why is it an expectation that one should have 12 equally geared and raid ready characters these days?

I think becasue you have completed the content you should have a slight advantage when doing it again. I am not in favor of account bound anything other than what is currently account bound. Each character in the game is a different entity, and should be treated as such by NPCs, but I think a small boost to reps, xp gains would be fair. Everything else you should have to achieve like you did previously.

[Deleted]

No, that's current MMOs. I've done over 200 runs of the same 10 dungeons since legion launch. I've been doing the same WQs. Leveled 2 characters to 110, a third on the way, all by doing the same quests in the same zone. New content is only new the first time its done. ToV is no longer new content to me despite being out a day, because I've already done it.

Also, attunement are all account wide now. No need to do suramar rep on alts unless you need recipes.

I don't know many that's done the dungeons 200x... Also Suramar quests rewards AP, the reputation gate was designed to keep us doing something till 7.1, now 7.1 is here there's no need to gate the quests behind weeks of grinding

[Jazzhands]

I don't know many that's done the dungeons 200x... Also Suramar quests rewards AP, the reputation gate was designed to keep us doing something till 7.1, now 7.1 is here there's no need to gate the quests behind weeks of grinding

M+ farming. Over 150 of my runs are M+, I do 4 man carry groups, they pile up fast.

People severely overestimate how important Artifact points are past the first ~20 (depends on class), and 20 points doesn't take very long.

[Krieleros]

I don't know many that's done the dungeons 200x... Also Suramar quests rewards AP, the reputation gate was designed to keep us doing something till 7.1, now 7.1 is here there's no need to gate the quests behind weeks of grinding

I've done a few of the dungeons (MoS, NL) over 100 times. Outside of Kara, I'm bored to tears by Legion dungeons. Not because they are bad; I think they are pretty interesting visually. It's because the mythic+ system and excessive RNG encourages you to grind keystones over and over. I think there are some good byproducts of this, like encouraging geared players to carry lesser geared players who may be stuck in ultra casual guilds because it's mutually beneficial. I don't think that gating and eliminating catch-up mechanics would be healthy. It would just encourage burnout.

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[Jaylock]

I think becasue you have completed the content you should have a slight advantage when doing it again. I am not in favor of account bound anything other than what is currently account bound. Each character in the game is a different entity, and should be treated as such by NPCs, but I think a small boost to reps, xp gains would be fair. Everything else you should have to achieve like you did previously.

I could get on board with that. Maybe with each successive character, you get 5% boost on that new alt to rep gains over and above the other 5%s you got with other alts?

All I'm trying to advocate is that people shouldn't be excessively rewarded just because they decided to roll several alt characters and have an alt barn. Similar effort should go into every one of them if you want to build them up like a main char.

[melodramocracy]

Because in WoW there are 12 classes, 30+ specs, and it's absolutely moronic to limit people to just 1 class or spec.

They're not limited in any way shape or form.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

They're not limited in any way shape or form.

Time certainly does limit you, but of course, you have over 15000 posts. That's about 7-8 posts a day just on mmo champion. You wouldn't understand what a time constraint is...

[WowIsDead64]

I don't understand this line of thinking. Why do you feel that your alt characters should have an easier time completing things and gearing up compared to your main? They are their own SEPARATE character from your main, so logic would dictate that it should take just as much time and effort into gearing and doing things on that character as any other character.

This whole mindset that alts need to take less time to level up, less time to do professions, less time to gear up is just unfounded. Guess what, in TBC, if you wanted a second character, you leveled up, got into normal dungeons, grinded the rep to revered with all the heroic dungeon factions, did attunement to Kara, went linearly through the raid tiers, JUST. LIKE. YOUR. MAIN.

So last question, why is it an expectation that one should have 12 equally geared and raid ready characters these days?

It's very simple. If catch up is way too grindy - then playing alt just isn't worth it. And majority of players plays alts just for the sake of playing alts. I.e. they just LIKE TO PLAY GAME DIFFERENTLY. And some players are simply altoholics: for them playing alts - is major goal, they want to accomplish.

And Blizzard themselves - are part of the reason. Simply because 14 months content droughts - are the best time to play alts, just because there is simply not enough content for one character. And if Blizzard think, that when they will provide new content, all players all of a sudden will return to their mains - then they're fools. Becoming altoholic - is one way ticket. There is no way back. Once you created, leveled and got used to your new characters - you just can't stop playing them.

Problem is in fact, that when you start to play on alt - you start to lose progress on main. And playing on main only - is way too boring for you. So you have to make very difficult choice between main and alts - between progress and fun. And players ask Blizzard to solve this problem somehow.

Imagine, that you have X hours of time to play the game and Y content hours per character withing one content patch. That means, if you have N characters, then you have to do Z=X/(N*Y)*100% percents of content per character. And if Y is way too big and Z is way too small as the result, you have only two options:
1) Set less ambitious goals for every character - for example level it to level cap and get 5ppl blues (would take a week per character).
2) Get rid of some alts.

And some players, like me, just can't pick second way. I guess, my experience - is the biggest reason, why it's way too boring for me to play one character. At some point after playing game for long enough time, many players decide to "explore" all it's aspects - they've heard many things about other classes from other players, but they want to experience all this stuff by themselves.

So... Some players just have N characters and X amount of time. And they want to play all this characters and experience most of content on them. Ok. Nerfing all content - is bad idea, cuz some players play mains only. But content HAVE TO BE NERFED for alts, cuz it's best possible compromise between two extremes - too grindy game and game with too few content per character.

Perfect solution - it shouldn't matter, what character you are playing. It should be just a matter of choice. You shouldn't lose overall progress, when you switch to alts. That's why players ask to make everything ACCOUNT WIDE. Because it's player, who plays the game - not his characters. Characters are nothing more, than avatars. And some games, like Firefall, have already implemented such system.

[Tomana]

Yeah...could be. But if you at this point (12 years into the game) just have one single character that you play...no alt at all...well, that would be interesting to know why and how.

I mean..really? Never tempted by another class? Not once? Not even..."I love my class so much, I make a second one"?

I have levelled all classes to at least some degree (at least 90, a lot of them to 100, only 2 to 110 so far though). Not only because of the professions, of course, but that played a huge role.

[Deleted]

he asked a legit question.

anyone calling him a troll is infact trolling themselves.