My mythic+ 10 experience!(spoiler, it went well)

[Gaidax]

Destruction is pretty great for serious M+, simply because most trash pulls consist of 3-4 adds and Havoc is really good there. AoE is fine if pack lives for some time, otherwise it does not matter. Single Target is not bad really, especially if you dump LoF there and or fight lasts short time.

As for utility Destruction has Shadowfury which is amazing and where applicable Banish and Enslave can allow you to control half of the trash pack by yourself if needed (both also avoid Bolster btw).

In addition we significantly relax group healing requirements by absorbing significant damage and finally we do provide a combat rez.

[Lucrece]

Shadowfury is not unique, it's an aoe stun with a cast time (unlike the other aoe CC's which are instant). Our combat rez has a cast time and is not exactly unique.

As I said, the only unique utility we provide is being bulkier. It's not bad, but it's also not exceptional since most damage is avoidable anyways.

Destro is fine but you clearly see a difference with Tyrannical in output. Personally I prefer Demo with Implosion for higher keystones.

[Bjarkan]

Shadowfury is not unique, it's an aoe stun with a cast time (unlike the other aoe CC's which are instant). Our combat rez has a cast time and is not exactly unique.

As I said, the only unique utility we provide is being bulkier. It's not bad, but it's also not exceptional since most damage is avoidable anyways.

Destro is fine but you clearly see a difference with Tyrannical in output. Personally I prefer Demo with Implosion for higher keystones.

Actually, our "uniqueness" is Enslave Demon, taming a M+ Demon bring that heck of buff to the Warlock, especially with Dark Path. Poor thing is ED work on so few demons that is actually sad... I mean, we can only controling them for 5min, not like a Hunter who tamming and convert beast to pets... To me it would be good if blizz reduce the bidding time to 3min but let us taming all non-boss protocol demon, this would be a hell of CC, and actually bring us more utility for the entire xpac.

[Gaidax]

Shadowfury is not unique, it's an aoe stun with a cast time (unlike the other aoe CC's which are instant). Our combat rez has a cast time and is not exactly unique.

As I said, the only unique utility we provide is being bulkier. It's not bad, but it's also not exceptional since most damage is avoidable anyways.

Destro is fine but you clearly see a difference with Tyrannical in output. Personally I prefer Demo with Implosion for higher keystones.

Who cares it's bloody unique or not? The fact is we provide it and AoE stun is amazing in proper M+, especially if you have shit like Necro or Raging. Cast time even does not matter there, it's a nice, long, ranged stun with great area.

[Lucrece]

Who cares it's bloody unique or not? The fact is we provide it and AoE stun is amazing in proper M+, especially if you have shit like Necro or Raging. Cast time even does not matter there, it's a nice, long, ranged stun with great area.

Because your utility does not exist in a vacuum. If somebody else provides better utility, they are more attractive. Which is why havoc/fire mage/outlaw rogue/shaman are so attractive for mythic+, their condensed utility.

A feral druid brings utility to mythic+ too with brez, stampeding roar, and their stun. Doesn't change the fact there are better melee.

[Gaidax]

Because your utility does not exist in a vacuum. If somebody else provides better utility, they are more attractive. Which is why havoc/fire mage/outlaw rogue/shaman are so attractive for mythic+, their condensed utility.

A feral druid brings utility to mythic+ too with brez, stampeding roar, and their stun. Doesn't change the fact there are better melee.

Fire mage can stun a bunch of adds in M+ and Combat Rez? Feral can AoE stun? News to me... I'm not even talking about Feral not being even close to Destruction/Demo overall in M+ or it being rare as well.

Really, you can try to wiggle out of it all you like, but the fact is, for example, that Destruction/Demonology utility is better than both Fire and Feral utility by a fair bit and both Destruction and Demo perform just fine in M+, unlike, for example, Feral which is a bottom feeder - a melee without advantages of being melee, really.

I mean, there could be a frikkin' point to what you say if Destruction/Demo would be genuinely terrible for M+, but they are not... so what's the problem?

[Ashnazg]

Because your utility does not exist in a vacuum. If somebody else provides better utility, they are more attractive. Which is why havoc/fire mage/outlaw rogue/shaman are so attractive for mythic+, their condensed utility.

A feral druid brings utility to mythic+ too with brez, stampeding roar, and their stun. Doesn't change the fact there are better melee.

Right - destro warlock is roughly equivalent to a BM hunter - both bring roughly the same things to a group - 4s stun, amazing cleave damage, battle rez and subpar single target damage.

However, BM hunter is easier / better at almost everything on that list - their 4s is instant (and is only worse than destro stun if the targets don't move), their cleave damage requires no forethought or strategy or ramp up, as soon as your pet blinks in you can start demolishing the meters, their battle rez is instant and can be used to res targets after a wipe (hunter feigns), their single target damage is probably slightly higher with the 27th point. On top of that, BM hunters have an 8 second immunity mechanic that allows them to live through nastier bursts of damage than a warlock can dream of (though a warlock can do it more consistently, e.g. nelth lair).

Warlocks do have better CC (you can always CC at least 1 target with fear, and in most dungeons you can CC at least 2 targets reliably (fear + banish or fear + enslave or fear + seduce)) and provide group healing / summons if necessary, but its probably not enough to outweigh the raw damage increase you get from bringing a hunter over a lock.

[Deleted]

I just got my realm first keystone master as destruction warlock.
They have their strenghts.Probably the best 2 target class. They have a good AoE stun and decenet AoE damage.I'm currently using the legendary cloak and sephuz's secret but for long runs i switch out to Demonic gateway legs so they can serve as a blink pretty much.The only thing that blows is single target damage which sucks alot on tyrannical.All in all I think they need at least an interupt to really be good in m+.Character name is Dedraon-Magtheridon. EU

[Deleted]

Sure, we're absolutely viable with good damage and excellent survivability - but utility? Where?
Healthstones? Pots are way better.
Portal? Very situational and pretty much never used because it causes as many problems as it solves. Also hard to use on the fly because of the cast/activation time.
Combat res? Sure, cause when the tank/healer dies, you most certainly have time for a 2+ sec cast before a wipe happens anyway. Not to mention when you get targeted by shit when trying to get that cast off. It should have been made instant cast a long time ago. The fact that you can pre-cast it pretty much means naught.
Shadowfury is nice indeed and the least of my worries, but seriously - cast time? Why? Because it's ranged and targetable? When is that a benefit compared to the melee stuns? Blizzard really comes up with the weirdest explanations. I mean, in theory it seems like a reasonable tradeoff - it's ranged and targetable, therefor cast time. But in practice that means nothing.

Yes, I'm salty. It's like they designed our utility with no real connection to current content whatsoever. Lets hope at least some of it gets fixed in 7.1.5.

[Bjarkan]

IIRC, the only reason because Shadowfury had cast time before, was because it do decent damage after land, something really OP that time, but right now...

[crimsonhead]

No burst at all outside of pvp, really. Prot Warriors are shield slam critting for over a million in instances, with pretty crummy gear, but I've never seen TKC or Doom crit for that much. I suppose a miracle mastery roll could get Chaos Bolt up that high.

Hit a million crit in kara last night. Was pretty happy, had the "Infernal Writ" stacked at 20 with my Moonlit Prism at around 14 or 15. Only happened once but was pretty sweet.

[Deleted]

Not entirely specific to locks, but does anyone have any advice for the freaking last boss in EoA? With Tyrannical this thing hits a 880 warrior for 1m hits all the time while all of its other abilities + unavoidable dmg is going on. After a good 2 hours we killed it after having one druid go out and respec to do it with 2 healers...It took forever and there was about 1 million waves around the boss (My Dps had droped to like 290k at the end from the amount of movement) but it died. I cant even imagine how to do this thing on the timer, let alone on higher mythic.

the only thing i found to help my group was that i can soak crushing depths alone once every minute with Dark pact + Unending resolve (as destruction).

[Deleted]

Because your utility does not exist in a vacuum. If somebody else provides better utility, they are more attractive. Which is why havoc/fire mage/outlaw rogue/shaman are so attractive for mythic+, their condensed utility.

A feral druid brings utility to mythic+ too with brez, stampeding roar, and their stun. Doesn't change the fact there are better melee.

and affliction doesn;t even have the aoe stun lol

As you point out, if an aoe stun isn;t unique, then you start looking at other factors, to see who is the best class to take.

[TravelDude]

I know we locks love to talk shit about our class and complain about how bad we are and how mop, and even wod, was soo much better, but I gotta say that I find myself having a fine time in legion.

I'm on a mythic+ team and last night we cleared our first level 10. The other dps was a enhance shaman and WW monk, so yeah, I had some serious competition. That being said, I held my own throughout it all and provided a lot of utility.

I stayed within 50-70k dps throughout the dungeon, which I think is okay considering who I was going with. I also provided tons of stuns with shadowfury. I hate that it's no longer instant, but a 4 second aoe stun is crazy OP in dungeons. But most importantly, I was able to brez people! Anyone who runs high level mythic+ dungeons knows how bad a boss wipe can hurt. If I can get a tank or heals up to save us, I have provided invaluable help.

So yeah, I don't have the top dps, but I'm able to help out in so many other ways and I think we are in an okay position, not great, but at least passable.

For sure! Shadowfury + Infernal + Banish + Enslave + Healthstones + SS + monster cleave damage = WIN! (Did my first +10 last night as well)

[Jonny727272]

For sure! Shadowfury + Infernal + Banish + Enslave + Healthstones + SS + monster cleave damage = WIN! (Did my first +10 last night as well)

Congrats on getting your first lvl 10 done! This week is going to be hard to push but my group is hopeful for a 12/13

[Kncvasdlsfui]

Who cares it's bloody unique or not? The fact is we provide it and AoE stun is amazing in proper M+, especially if you have shit like Necro or Raging. Cast time even does not matter there, it's a nice, long, ranged stun with great area.

As demo, our stun is worse than monks, our res is worse than druids, our tanking is worse than tanks, and our aoe is worse than fire mages.

No reason to ever bring a warlock to anything.

[Lucrece]

You just need more gear than the good mythic+ classes to ever hope to compete with WW/fire/BM/havoc/outlaw/fury.

Warlocks can be summed up in Legion with one word: RAMP-UP, forced choice between aoe or single target (always mediocre at one or the other).

When you're pulling 5-6 mobs 12+ to make timers, you're not touching strong aoe classes and single target is pretty shit even on demo due to how much you'll be targeted by mechanics and forced to move, losing your optimal TKC opener.

Warlock can only hope to shine in raids, where the ramp up hurts you less and the RNG resource/procs average out.

[starji]

I actually did my first +10 under timer last night too (Thicket). Went as affliction; the damage felt pretty good but my group might be pulling slow. Definitely hope they make soulstone instant cast and give Aff shadowfury. It would help a lot.

[Vitinariy]

Not entirely specific to locks, but does anyone have any advice for the freaking last boss in EoA?

It hurts, but it's doable - you have to rotate the healing and tank cooldowns really well though.
We did it with 2 chests yesterday as Guardian/Disc/Feral/MM/Havoc. Our Guardian died at around 5% of boss HP, because only him and hunter grouped up for the crushing depths soak (and hunter turtled). That was the only death we had in the instance though.

[Sjeletyven]

It hurts, but it's doable - you have to rotate the healing and tank cooldowns really well though.
We did it with 2 chests yesterday as Guardian/Disc/Feral/MM/Havoc. Our Guardian died at around 5% of boss HP, because only him and hunter grouped up for the crushing depths soak (and hunter turtled). That was the only death we had in the instance though.

Bring paladins. Did EoA tyrranical+15 with 1 minute away from two chests.
https://youtu.be/qpmnhOCqsNo?t=1567

Tl;dr bops work on crushing depths.