1. #1

    Question Help me get to a 3rd VT

    We were working on M Ursoc last night and as the title suggests I'm having difficulties getting to the 3rd Void Torrent. Since we're looking at only just beating the enrage I'm trying to squeeze out all the damage I can to make it happen. After seeing the chart showing the relative weights of secondaries at certain haste breakpoints I started using crit food and changed ring enchants from haste to crit (actually in the middle of our raid last night for the enchants). I also grabbed a crit gem for some pants I got the other night and can swap the other 2 gems I have if you guys think it'll help. I think it's something I'm doing towards the end of StM. Please see the logs below for reference. Typically, any attempt over 4:30 in duration is one worth looking at. Pulls 11, 15, and 19 are pulls where I screwed up target switching to/from the add which is why I died early.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...rce=18&fight=8

    After going through last night here's what my plan/goal is for the flow of the fight, at least on my end:
    • Since we're looking at getting a kill at the enrage because of where our dps is at, I try go into the last voidform at just before 3 minutes into the fight (typically 2:50) so I can get the first VT going in time to get a third before the boss dies. If needed I'll sit at 100 insanity for a little to make sure I start the last voidform on time.
    • Leading up to the 3 minute mark I get 2 VTs and 2 PIs off. I hold the third VT for the start of the StM phase.
    • Because I'm on the lower end for crit, I'm trying to use 2 dispersions to buffer my time while StM to have a better shot at getting to the third VT
    • I'm looking to use PI around 80+ stacks, but in practice end up using it a little early (probably something to improve on). Wondering if I should save it for a little later if I'm in a position to survive at 80 without it?
    • If I don't have anything available to cast to keep myself in voidform towards the end of PI I'll dispersion to stay alive and get VB and a SWD back off CD.
    • Aiming to use a potion of prolonged power at 30-40 stacks. 40 stacks should probably be the target since I'm aiming for a third VT, right? Or should I save it for later?

    I didn't execute these points perfectly but they're what I settled on doing after wrapping up last night. Any ideas on how to improve would be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Practice on the garrison dummy outside of raids.

    I don't think stat weights were updated for the last hotfix, which made 3d VT rather hard.

    PI gives you 20 seconds of being safe, dispersion is another 6. Ideally you want to pop PI with ~30 seconds left on VT cooldown, but for me, the 70-80 drain stacks is where it all starts to fall apart, and that's normally 40 seconds before VT. Just practice a bit and figure out where you normally slip.

    Another thing I noticed, is that I can easily keep my insanity up during PI without using any SWDs, so I always try to exit it with 2 charges ready, so I can have more time before poping second dispersion. And use your potion 5-10 seconds after second VT.

    With the changes in the hotfix, I strongly feel that the ~30 seconds after the second VT are the most important part, as your insanity starts to drain too fast, while your rotation is still out of sync (VB cooldown being longer than 2 GCDs).

  3. #3
    You need more gear to hit 3rd void torrent now.

    I could make the 3rd torrent without the 2nd use of dispersion previous to the hotfix, now im consistently ~5 seconds short even with the 2nd dispersion (after testing dummies for a few hours).

    My stats are 26% crit 35% haste, my best assumption is that the legendary belt or perhaps the shoulders are required to reach the 3rd torrent.

    7.1.5 is the death of 3 torrents.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thore View Post
    Stuff
    Main issues I found was
    -wasting sw:d charges too early, usualy resulting in 1 less charge when you need them.
    -casting Pi too early when you didnt need it yet
    -casting sw:d when you were still fine on insanity

    Also noticed you often go into s2m after 3 min, so make sure you cast your s2m right after your previous void form ends.

  5. #5
    Not overcapping insanity after 2nd VT is what makes it consistent imo.

    Lets say you have 100 insanity after 2nd VT and mind blast is off CD, while VB is coming off. Intuitively you want to spam MB->VB. But the problem occors when you're done with that sequence. The next void bolt feels far away and insanity is draining fast.

    Instead, you can mind blast, wait for insanity to drop to 65-70, then void bolt. This wait time feels awkward to begin with, but it gates mind blast (and later on SW: D) CD, which helps a ton. At around 80 stacks it gets uncomfortable. I make sure to use neck and both SW: D's without overcapping insanity, then use PI. After PI, you should be at around 110. At this point you should be able to MB-VB-SW: D-VB-dispersion-Void Torrent with ease.

    Or you could disperse twice and not worry quite as much.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the feedback. I'll have a wack at some target dummies and work out the kinks

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jullyx View Post
    Not overcapping insanity after 2nd VT is what makes it consistent imo.

    Lets say you have 100 insanity after 2nd VT and mind blast is off CD, while VB is coming off. Intuitively you want to spam MB->VB. But the problem occors when you're done with that sequence. The next void bolt feels far away and insanity is draining fast.

    Instead, you can mind blast, wait for insanity to drop to 65-70, then void bolt. This wait time feels awkward to begin with, but it gates mind blast (and later on SW: D) CD, which helps a ton. At around 80 stacks it gets uncomfortable. I make sure to use neck and both SW: D's without overcapping insanity, then use PI. After PI, you should be at around 110. At this point you should be able to MB-VB-SW: D-VB-dispersion-Void Torrent with ease.

    Or you could disperse twice and not worry quite as much.
    What neck ?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltshak3r View Post
    What neck ?
    Jewelcrafting Neck, gives 30 Insanity on-use with 5 min CD

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Just wondering... I got legendary belt last night (my other legendary is ring or wrist, using ring atm tho) and did some tries on dummies using SI instead of AS but so far I've had worse results than before without the AS insanity regen (and thats with just one target, I can imagine in raid with more than one several times it'd be even worse). Am I missing something? Is it worth to use the belt with AS? And if I stick with SI do you have hints about how to handle it? My crit is 27%, haste 35%.
    I really love AS since its passive and gives you a buff without having to waste any time at all, but I'm wondering if my dps in raid would be higher with belt+SI pre stm to make up for the loss of dps during last stm phase (altho I'm not sure given how much dps we do at the end of STM).
    Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by mmoca542e793be; 2016-11-18 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tiptopmemer View Post
    my best assumption is that the legendary belt or perhaps the shoulders are required to reach the 3rd torrent.

    7.1.5 is the death of 3 torrents.
    Not really, the shoulder now make it hard to get to the 3vt because the s2m start with 7 stacks, so everything is pushed 7 seconds, so instead of the 2VT being at 60-61 stacks its at 67-68, your 3vt is going to be at 125-128 stacks, so instead of using PI at 85-87 stacks you need to use it at 90-92 stacks and thats just luck and rng if you can get that high without the belt.

    Nvm i was wrong.
    Last edited by Clrg; 2016-11-19 at 04:29 PM.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Clerigon View Post
    Not really, the shoulder now make it hard to get to the 3vt because the s2m start with 7 stacks, so everything is pushed 7 seconds, so instead of the 2VT being at 60-61 stacks its at 67-68, your 3vt is going to be at 125-128 stacks, so instead of using PI at 85-87 stacks you need to use it at 90-92 stacks and thats just luck and rng if you can get that high without the belt.
    Shoulders dont make you drain insanity faster, so no they dont make it any harder.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltshak3r View Post
    What neck ?
    What Tehterokkar said, except it gives 75 insanity while surrender to madness is active

  13. #13
    Shoulders dont make you drain insanity faster, so no they dont make it any harder.
    Shoulders makes it easier, since you get a big boost to your Haste, making it easier to keep up with the drain.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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