Whats up with RPG endings?

[WarpedAcorn]

For what its worth, the Witcher 3's ending wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. Geralt was tasked with finding Ciri and that was the objective of the game, which you accomplished. Dealing with the White Frost was Ciri's task, and they made it very clear that this was Ciri's story and you were basically playing a support character in that story.

But endings, RPG and otherwise, mainly exist to set up franchises these days. Its rare to see an ending that is a full hard stop because they want to leave the story open for you to revisit the world. This is also partially due to a shift in storytelling to the protagonist not being able to solve every problem by the end of the game. Take Dragon Age: Origins. The Blight ended, but the Darkspawn still exist and Blights will still happen in the future, Elves are still treated poorly, mistrust for magic has grown, the dwarves continue to squabble over their city and policy, etc...Back in the day endings were about "happily ever after", but those types of endings contrast to the modern gamer who knows "happily ever after" doesn't exist.

[Deleted]

I've once made a somewhat related thread, asking why quite often in games endings seem lackluster in comparison to the rest of the story or sometimes even unsatisfying. As far as I recall, a few good points were made there, and most have already been mentioned here.

I'd like to add one point, which is of psychological nature. It is a major downer that a story, which sometimes got you caught up in it for weeks, is over and there's just nothing more, even if the end was satisfying. That is even more true for games, which get people more involved than many other entertainment mediums - at least for me it is that way. That is in part due to the interactivity. The player gets to decide within certain limits what the main character does and how he plays the story. The other part is the time spent. E.g. watching a movie can make you get involved and get you think about it even days after if it's really good. But watching it is done in ~2 hours. In a game you can spend many more, in some even 100+ hours, and experience the story. Thus many people get more attached to and more involved in it. And then? It's over. The thing we've just spent most of our free time with? Done. Even good endings can make for a really unsatisfying feeling in that moment, which makes them look worse than they actually are.
An example for it, a bit minor though, is me right now. I played Tomb Raider, the 2013 reboot, over the weekend and finished it (WARNING: very minor spoilers ahead). The ending is "complete", in the sense that the story told there on the island is finished. Still, on some level I'm feeling: "That was it already? "

The main point though, which was mentioned quite a few times here already, is imo that those games set up worlds and franchises. As an example of the Bioware games: DAO focused on one part of the story, one event in that world: The 5th Blight. It starts it, you stop it, game over. But the ending is far from complete, they've set up many side stories and some problems in the world that get tackled in later games. Note that, while this can make for more unsatisfying and incomplete endings, it also has its advantages: A world with many minor and major stories and plots in it make it feel more alive and gives the player more to do. And many of those just describe problems that are always happening or are a constant problem in said world. If that world is big and complete enough and has enough of those stories in it, it's just not possible to tackle them all in a single game, or even in a whole franchise.

[takolin]

DAO didn't need an expansion but the some expansions expanded on the universe and answered some unanswered questions. Killing the archdemon pretty much ended the game. I cant say the same for the sequels.

DA2 was a finished game as well prior to DLC storywise though it had other flaws. The exiled prince and the mark of the assassin didn't add a whole lot to the main quest line and legacy was mostly a setup for DA I.

I agree with DA I though, you need the DLC for closure of the main story line.

[Faldric]

For what its worth, the Witcher 3's ending wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. Geralt was tasked with finding Ciri and that was the objective of the game, which you accomplished. Dealing with the White Frost was Ciri's task, and they made it very clear that this was Ciri's story and you were basically playing a support character in that story.

I get what happened, it still left me scratching my head. The whole part felt like it was from another game. You meet Eredin who spent the whole game doing nothing but throwing around oneliners. Then he talks some bullshit about avallach betrayal which you 5 minutes later discover is not true and ciri just decided to fight the wild frost with the worst timing possible. Why not wait until the wild hunt is defeated? Why not going for the tower straight away instead of risking an engagement with the wild hunt? Why is the lodge built up and all they do is some handwaving? The whole storyline is a rushed mess after the battle of kaer morhen.

- - - Updated - - -

You will find that in most video games the plot tends to write itself into a corner in such a way that by the time the ending comes in, there simply can't be a satisfying denouement. This is not inherent to the medium, as you will find the same issue in the Harry Potter books where every ending is a Deux Ex Machina, but it is worth noting because video games are about feeling awesome and oftentimes "awesome" simply doesn't make sense when you add it all up.

Another thing to consider is that RPGs are very costly to develop from scratch (so the developers will want to leave things open for a sequel or expanded universe), and that the way game development works the ending can only realistically be thought out towards the end of the cycle - when there isn't really any time or energy left to spend on closing every loop.

Pretty sure thats what happened with TW3. They opened so many storylines and spent so many resources on the open world that their was not enough time/budget left to give it an adequat ending.

[Deleted]

Care to share good JRPGs?

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey.

[Faldric]

But endings, RPG and otherwise, mainly exist to set up franchises these days. Its rare to see an ending that is a full hard stop because they want to leave the story open for you to revisit the world. This is also partially due to a shift in storytelling to the protagonist not being able to solve every problem by the end of the game. Take Dragon Age: Origins. The Blight ended, but the Darkspawn still exist and Blights will still happen in the future, Elves are still treated poorly, mistrust for magic has grown, the dwarves continue to squabble over their city and policy, etc...Back in the day endings were about "happily ever after", but those types of endings contrast to the modern gamer who knows "happily ever after" doesn't exist.

I dont need a "happy ever after" ending. I just need an adequat amount of closure. Even if you want to bring a sequel, you can still properly close the current act. Sequels existed in the past and still games were given proper endings. DAO was actually a fine ending in my books. It gave enough closure, I wasn't left wondering: Wait wth happened with X? What was the reason for Y anyway?

But nowadays endings seem to be an aftersight. Developed with the last bit of time and budget. Rushed to meet some deadline. With no thought put into it and every story writer already transfered to the next project.

[Jester Joe]

SMT 3, 4, 4A
Persona 2, 3, 4, 5
Tales of Vesperia(not to be confused with Zesteria which is garbage)
Final Fantasy 4, 6 and 9
Xenoblade Chronicles
Entire Etrian Odyssey series
YS 7
Tokyo Xanadu(which should be coming out in the west on pc/vita early next year)

Tales of Symphonia and Xillia 1&2 also I would tack on.

But yeah, I rarely have this issue honestly with RPGs having bad endings, but that is because generally I stick to JRPGs.

You can probably learn Japanese before it comes out in the west at the rate it's going...

YAMATE.

[WarpedAcorn]

But nowadays endings seem to be an aftersight. Developed with the last bit of time and budget. Rushed to meet some deadline. With no thought put into it and every story writer already transfered to the next project.

One of the things I DO appreciate in game endings is a bit of an epilogue slideshow, like how DA:O did it. Even if the game is not about choices and there is no variance, some pieces of concept art and a couple lines of dialogue to tell you what happened to that blacksmith you met at the beginning goes a long ways. If nothing else it takes 40-Hour experience and reminds you of stuff that happened early on up to the end which is a nice way to close out...even if the last epilogue card is: "no one knows what became of the protagonist. some say he wandered north in search of more adventure and others say he settled down. but that is a tale for another time..."