Blizzard is amusing!

[Kellorion]

"Garrisons won't be mandatory" ~ WoD
"Legendaries won't be game breaking" ~Legion

I wonder what delightful thing they will introduce next thats "optional" Timesink

bye Felicia

Infracted: Minor Spam {MoanaLisa}

[Flurryfang]

"Garrisons won't be mandatory" ~ WoD
"Legendaries won't be game breaking" ~Legion

I wonder what delightful thing they will introduce next thats "optional" Timesink

Have yet to see Legendaries be gamebreaking They are not determining the spec rankings and from what i can see in the normal/heroic raiding scene, legendaries does not change much there

[Sosoulsu]

Criticizing the way the game is designed = "You need to go outside XD"
Blizzard sycophants are perplexing.

[thilicen]

How did legendaries break your game, OP? To that end, how were garrisons ever mandatory beyond having to actually build one and do the introduction bit?
Keep in mind that I'm talking about the -real- game-breaking and mandatory here, and not your own obsession with having to have absolutely everything.

[kamuimac]

"Garrisons won't be mandatory" ~ WoD
"Legendaries won't be game breaking" ~Legion

I wonder what delightful thing they will introduce next thats "optional" Timesink

they werent and they arent - just because ocd kids see them as mandatory doesnt make them so.

in other threads you openly admit that you dont even play this game atm - can you just go troll somewhere else ?

[Phookah]

Criticizing the way the game is designed = "You need to go outside XD"
Blizzard sycophants are perplexing.

They didn't criticize anything, they just cried like a baby and left their own thread.

[Lane]

I for one am just getting tired of these single expansion progression "systems". They become a focal point for almost all development resources at the cost of other things, activities that could be fun get shoehorned into being manipulative time-sinks to earn magic-gem-badge-point-fun-bucks to power up the thing, and come the next expansions they're pissed into the wind never to be seen from nor used again. They're also inherently alt-unfriendly in the way Blizzard chooses to implement them.

In terms of meaningful progression people feel attached to and happy with, I don't think they've ever successfully iterated on the paradigm of you level, you dungeon, you gear, you raid, you get better gear.

Agreed with the first part, not so much the second. I think Blizzard's made a few positive strides in Legion to get away from a completely "raid or die" end game.

I feel like there's no one at Blizzard who gets asked, "What could go wrong with this system?" (If there is, clearly no one listens to them. :P) A lot of the flaws of garrisons and artifact weapons, in particular, I felt were glaringly obvious from onset (let alone throughout betas), yet made it to live and will more than likely continue in their current state until the next expansion makes them obsolete. It reminds me of "Peters Evil Overlord List", #12: "One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation."

[thilicen]

Criticizing the way the game is designed = "You need to go outside XD"
Blizzard sycophants are perplexing.

No, over-exaggerations and pure nonsense is not criticism. OP makes a couple of baseless claims that aren't true in any way, it's either trolling or just another bitch-thread.

[Akka]

Anaxie, bruh, really? Legendaries aren't mandatory.

Yeah, playing while wearing gear isn't mandatory either.
Clown.

Have yet to see Legendaries be gamebreaking They are not determining the spec rankings and from what i can see in the normal/heroic raiding scene, legendaries does not change much there

Change your eyes then.

[Joodoc]

No they didn't, that's what they wanted to be heard but that's not what they said. You're probably refering to this post - http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...r-Black-Friday

And after reading it you might think they imply that the "the die will become more and more weighted toward giving you a 3" means the more kills you get but that's not what it means. It means that every week they increase the chance slightly, you farming content has nothign to do with it, you can't modify your chance BUT what what you can do is run more content so you have more dice rolls. But since the dice doesn't care about other dices, your chance doesn't increase with every roll, it's always the same and if you're unlucky after 100 rolls you won't get 3 and someone will roll 10 times and roll a 3. The bad luck protection prevents you from not rolling 3 ever in your life so in a very long time with extreme bad luck you will eventually roll it (still not guaranteed). The only chance change that happens is the weekly "slight boost to legendary drop chance*", that's all. You can't do anything about it.

* but still it's multiplicative not additive so if the chance is 1% and they increase it by 100% it's not 101%, it's just 2.

What is your source for each week they increase the leg chance, as opposed to each leg available chance? Because you linked a source that says the opposite, and as blizzard said it, that is a VERY good source baout how their inner workings work. and it even fits with what I've seen. Yes, some players get legendries luckily, and there is some imbalance. Prior to raids coming out, out guild had a few legendaries, like 6 IIRC, but only like 1 in our raid group. However as the weeks went on, and our raid group raided all of normal and much of heroic each week, that balance switched, to I think all of our raiders have legendaries, or nearly all, with some having multiple, wheras there are still a good chunk of non-raiders that still don't have any legendaries, and those that do few have more than 1, the ratio didn't keep up. This suggests FAR more the likelyhood that the bad luck protection is like blizz said, every failed drop increases your chance to get more, as opposed to your theory of each week it goes up.

Also, multiplicative is a good thing, it is to your benefit, just look at the numbers below, we will even start out with additive being better initially.
Additive(3% each time) 1% 4% 7% 10% 13% 16% 19%
Multiplicative(100% each time) 1% 2% 4% 8% 16% 32% 64%

So you're' complaining about a system that is much nicer for the reciever, as the longer your bad luck streak lasts, you exponentially get a higher and higher chance of it ending.

[Deleted]

Also, multiplicative is a good thing, it is to your benefit, just look at the numbers below, we will even start out with additive being better initially.
Additive(3% each time) 1% 4% 7% 10% 13% 16% 19%
Multiplicative(100% each time) 1% 2% 4% 8% 16% 32% 64%

My numbers were takend out of thin air and you base your post on it, it's hilarious actually. But sure let it be your way, I don't have the time and the crayons to explain it to you, it's been talked over and over in the past.

But just to make sure you won't actually go and spread the information THEY DONT INCREASE IT BY 100% EACH DAMN WEEK ARE YOU INSANE? I can't believe I have to actually make sure you understand it, I'm just baffled at this point.

[Asrialol]

"Garrisons won't be mandatory" ~ WoD
"Legendaries won't be game breaking" ~Legion

I wonder what delightful thing they will introduce next thats "optional" Timesink

The people who find legendaries gamebreaking, or think it "ruins" the game, are a horribly low minority.

How does it feel being a minority group?

[Joodoc]

Agreed with the first part, not so much the second. I think Blizzard's made a few positive strides in Legion to get away from a completely "raid or die" end game.

I feel like there's no one at Blizzard who gets asked, "What could go wrong with this system?" (If there is, clearly no one listens to them. :P) A lot of the flaws of garrisons and artifact weapons, in particular, I felt were glaringly obvious from onset (let alone throughout betas), yet made it to live and will more than likely continue in their current state until the next expansion makes them obsolete. It reminds me of "Peters Evil Overlord List", #12: "One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation."

They do have the "what woudl go wrong" and they handled two MAJOR ones for it really well.

The first issue was the issue of weekly caps versus grinding. If you don't put a cap, people can grind like crazy, if you do put a cap, they feel like they MUST reach it each week. Plus with caps it doesn't feel good to suddenly no longer be rewarded, or to be 100 points shy of that upgrade, and have to wait an entire week for it. With the artifact knowledge and the way traits go up exponentially, you technically CAN grind out AP, but what you would get in 3 hours, someone coudl get in an hour or so in a few days. and with the exponential increase the amount you have to grind is staggering for a minor upgrade, and thus each person can set what is worthwhile. personally, if there are enough WQ to get my next trait, I will do all of them and get the trait, however if there aren't I won't go out of my way to do them. An exception of course being if there is a REALLY big upgrade next, then i will do extras, or if it is a poor upgrade I won't even do the WQ if it would give the trait. It was a very smart play, it rewarded players for putting in time, but if you couldn't put in 12 hours a week, then you would get the same level of power for less overall time a little later, once you get your next AK.

The second issue was the issue of alt characters. If I level a character a month later, it will never catch up. Well with the way they handle AK levels, you can, because your first level is like a day, until you catch up. Now, you will still be behind, say when your AK catches up, you are still 500k AP behind someone, and you get the same amount each week as them. that is initially a lot, however because of the way exponential traits is going, that puts you one week like 4 traits behind, then the next like 3, then 2, then one, and eventually you're on the same trait. So you're still behind, which is fair to the person who started there and you've put less time in, but you're not so far behind it is unplayable, and it gets less and less so.

This also worked really well for offspecs. those first ~14 traits to really be viable as your spec(that first golden is huge for everyone) took a while to get for your first spec. but now if you need a second spec viable, it just takes 2-4 decent AP sources(so not treasure chest ones, but like Random heroic, or WQ) and you are there for your offspec. and with the exponential growth you can keep up two specs evenly, only 1 or 2 traits behind putting them all into one spec(which a trait or two makes a difference, but honestly it is very minor most of the time).

Yes it still has problems in some peoples eyes, though most of those problems are not understanding how it works. they system is very OS and alt friendly, requiring far less work on a second character or toon, and it reward grinding for those who REALLY want to do it, but it is minorly so.

[Tinary]

Dont treat them as orange amgawsomeshit, treat them as epics with buffs and good ilvl. Problem solved. They dont make the game or break the game. They are just strong items which is hands of good players make them see good but in bad players hand, it does nothing. We have guys who doesnt have legendary's in our raid grp pulling top dps and ranking really high while guys with 4 legendary's, 2 equipped sit below at 10-14th spot. Deep down, noone gives a fuck bout them, you guys just need a reason to QQ all the time. Same way as garrisons were not mandatory, my main raider only logged once or twice to spacebar and move on while on my alts I logged constantly to keep the cash coming. It was so hard to log once a week and put the raidbox mission to work, god damn, thumb is so swollen from pressing that spacebar 3 times.

Tho about alt friendly, AP knowledge sucks. I got the char up at sunday 20th nov and the research takes 3 days 12 hours. Where is the promised 1 day one?

[Zabatakis]

I for one am just getting tired of these single expansion progression "systems". They become a focal point for almost all development resources at the cost of other things, activities that could be fun get shoehorned into being manipulative time-sinks to earn magic-gem-badge-point-fun-bucks to power up the thing, and come the next expansions they're pissed into the wind never to be seen from nor used again.

On a somewhat side note to this, am I the only one who realises artifact traits are just the really old talent trees they scrapped because they were too cookie cutter and flat% gains were boring af? Except now you get all the boring things instead of 1 from each tier.

[Flurryfang]

Yeah, playing while wearing gear isn't mandatory either.
Clown.

Change your eyes then.

Good argument. Classy choice of words

[Joodoc]

My numbers were takend out of thin air and you base your post on it, it's hilarious actually. But sure let it be your way, I don't have the time and the crayons to explain it to you, it's been talked over and over in the past.

But just to make sure you won't actually go and spread the information THEY DONT INCREASE IT BY 100% EACH DAMN WEEK ARE YOU INSANE? I can't believe I have to actually make sure you understand it, I'm just baffled at this point.

I never said they did, and I see you ignored the part that pointed out them increasing it each week likely being wrong. I NEVER based my post on your numbers, I used numbers to prove you wrong, using one you said as a baseline to prove a point.

But regardless, I used 100% to make it easier to understand, I was showing HOW they grow, not by what amounts. the way they grow still stands, multiplicative is FAR more beneficial to the user than additive. if you want, I"ll throw up a new set of numbers, far lower, that still proves the same point.

Additive(.3% each time) ____ 1.00% 1.30% 1.60% 1.90% 2.20% 2.50% 2.80% 3.10% 3.30% 3.60%
Multiplicative(20% each time) 1.00% 1.20% 1.44% 1.73% 2.07% 2.49% 2.99% 3.58% 4.30% 5.16%

Over time multiplicative gives WAY more beneficial results.

And if you're seriously baffled, then your ability to read and comprehend is concerning, as nowhere does my post suggest it is based on that, it clearly uses it simply to prove a point. The issue of multiplicative versus additive is a common thing with stats, and that is very different because of the fact that say 100 of a stat was far more beneficial when you had 1000 than when you had 3000(or vice versa, depending on how the math was done) whereas with additive it is the same. with drop chance it isn't the same. multiplicative is far more friendly as badluck prevention.

Oh, and just to clarify, increasing the drop rate by 100% each time isn't even that insane, if your original drop rate is 0.2%, 100% increase would only be 0.4%, not all that high still. if it is sufficiently low it will take time to see gains, just everyone would see gains at roughly the same point, with lower percentages increased spreading out how long it takes to really be insanely high.

[lavaalamp]

You didn't even need to complete the Garrison to get the ring. Even at that, when the last stage was unlocked, your Garrison would've been Rank 3 anyways.

Shipyard is apart of the garrison. to get the legendary ring you needed to do that. so yes, it was mandatory for anyone who wanted anything to do with organized raiding be it pugs/guild groups.

[Taeldorian]

Yeah, playing while wearing gear isn't mandatory either.
Clown.

Change your eyes then.

Are you actually this dense? That's not possible. Since you insist, go find me a mythic raiding guild that requires you to have a legendary in order to be on their core roster. Come back when you actually have that.

Yeah, legendaries give you a nice boost depending on the one you get, but they aren't required. Nobody asks you for them when you join a raiding team. Do you apply to groups through premade group finder? How many have asked you if you have a legendary. My guess is 0, since I do tons and tons of mythic+ and not once have I been asked if I have a legendary.

Seriously, get real. Clown.

[Joodoc]

On a somewhat side note to this, am I the only one who realises artifact traits are just the really old talent trees they scrapped because they were too cookie cutter and flat% gains were boring af? Except now you get all the boring things instead of 1 from each tier.

Yes and no, there is some choice like talents, and many boring, but it is to power up your character at max level, and eventually everyone gets them all. Talent trees weren't not for everyone, and at max level they no longer changed, which meant while leveling, you had to try and figure out what would be the best for you for the next level or two, which is when people don't even really have an idea what stats to prioritize, because it changes constantly while leveling.