Idea: Higher Prestige = Better Gear

[sarkarin]

This would allow people to slowly get better gear through PvP but be enough of a grind that it doesn't invalidate other ways to get gear. So it would allow solo progression in much the same way world quests do.

And no I don't care about what happens to rated BGs and rated arena. You people figure out what should happen to those because I couldn't give a shit about participating in a tedious ladder climb like 90% of players.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

This would allow people to slowly get better gear through PvP but be enough of a grind that it doesn't invalidate other ways to get gear. So it would allow solo progression in much the same way world quests do.

And no I don't care about what happens to rated BGs and rated arena. You people figure out what should happen to those because I couldn't give a shit about participating in a tedious ladder climb like 90% of players.

You don't care about the "tedious ladder climb" in rated PvP, but want to improve rewards gained from the prestige system--a grind that takes little player ability at all, and what most players climb the ranks through just by completing world "PvP" quests?

You can still slowly get gear through PvP without ever competing in rated PvP if you so choose--just takes some luck through Titanforge drops. However, the most lucrative way to gear up would be through playing in rated PvP and playing against other players of your own caliber. The higher rated you get, the more you're rewarded with shinier gear.

It's a very similar system to PvE's gear grind--you can choose the low difficulty route of doing Heroic dungeons and Looking For Raid, hoping for warforged/titanforged drops, or you can go into the harder difficulties of Mythic+ dungeons and Heroic/Mythic raiding for better gear.

[Caolela]

You might also hit the lottery if you play it enough times, except that no matter what they do most will never hit it.

[sarkarin]

You don't care about the "tedious ladder climb" in rated PvP, but want to improve rewards gained from the prestige system--a grind that takes little player ability at all, and what most players climb the ranks through just by completing world "PvP" quests?

You can still slowly get gear through PvP without ever competing in rated PvP if you so choose--just takes some luck through Titanforge drops. However, the most lucrative way to gear up would be through playing in rated PvP and playing against other players of your own caliber. The higher rated you get, the more you're rewarded with shinier gear.

It's a very similar system to PvE's gear grind--you can choose the low difficulty route of doing Heroic dungeons and Looking For Raid, hoping for warforged/titanforged drops, or you can go into the harder difficulties of Mythic+ dungeons and Heroic/Mythic raiding for better gear.

PvP participation is at all time low because there is little meaningful gear progression or gameplay impact outside a PvP instance. Even if you don't want to accept it, the fact is 90% of players don't give a shit about tedious ladder climbs and the bullshit associated with it. Most people are not bothered to reroll and level something OP/FOTM, sift through hundreds of videos on YouTube, find players for a specific comp, coordinate play time with 9+ people, replace no shows and leavers, spend hundreds of hours going up and down the ladder not knowing whether they will ever get to their desired rating, etc etc.

Most people will likely give up after hitting just a few of those obstacles because the fun is instantly sucked out of the game. Most people just want to play and not be sucked into this world of 'rated' bullshit where suddenly their contribution to the game is not good enough because of some number on a ladder.

Most people play games to enjoy themselves and progress in whatever way is comfortable for their lifestyle. You think people working 9 - 5 with kids are going to want to deal with all the aforementioned bullshit? The community is not being cared for and its numbers are getting smaller and smaller each expansion because people cling the 'almighty ladder' system where only people at the top matter (Mostly win traders). Don't believe me? Fine, I don't care. I just came to speak the truth.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

Most people are not bothered to reroll and level something OP/FOTM, sift through hundreds of videos on YouTube, find players for a specific comp, coordinate play time with 9+ people, replace no shows and leavers, spend hundreds of hours going up and down the ladder not knowing whether they will ever get to their desired rating, etc etc.

Most people will likely give up after hitting just a few of those obstacles because the fun is instantly sucked out of the game. Most people just want to play and not be sucked into this world of 'rated' bullshit where suddenly their contribution to the game is not good enough because of some number on a ladder.

Most people play games to enjoy themselves and progress in whatever way is comfortable for their lifestyle. You think people working 9 - 5 with kids are going to want to deal with all the aforementioned bullshit? The community is not being cared for and its numbers are getting smaller and smaller each expansion because people cling the 'almighty ladder' system where only people at the top matter (Mostly win traders). Don't believe me? Fine, I don't care. I just came to speak the truth.

Welcome to MMORPGs guy. Spending countless hours researching your class, other classes, different skill/talent builds, finding/making helpful macros, coordinating time to do dungeons/pvp/raids with 4-40 people, coordinating raid times and loot rules, and then all the prep work in-between.

Yes, there are a lot of people who give up because they do not enjoy the stress involved with the competitive aspect of rated pvp, but a lot of players enjoy having a good measure for their skill and how to rack themselves up against the best, and enjoy the bragging rights and rewards that come with it. It's not a magical, spooky, evil number of doom that stops you from being good at this game; it's you. Everyone has the ability to improve and succeed at this game. I believe there was even a story a few years back about a guy with no fingers being able to climb to 1900 in the 2v2 bracket.

And yes, it's a game and most people jump on to kick back, relax, and have some fun. But at it's core, this is a game that rewards time put into it. Put in the time and effort--reap the rewards. If you think your lifestyle is stopping you from being competitive, then just opt out and enjoy unrated battlegrounds or skirmishes or world pvp and have fun. Speaking from experience, having a job that I routinely work 12 hour shifts with does not interfere with me being able to find time for rated arena or heroic raids.

Truth is the game is more accessible now than it's ever been. No matter what activity you're doing, you always have the chance to get a major upgrade if luck smiles on you. Jumping into PvP is easier than it's ever been with the way gear scales now (ignoring the glaring problem with artifact traits), and winning a battleground now guarantees you a piece of gear vs grinding out losses non-stop along with bots hoping to scrape enough honor points to buy a blue piece of gear from a vendor.

[Kagthul]

Welcome to MMORPGs guy. Spending countless hours researching your class, other classes, different skill/talent builds, finding/making helpful macros, coordinating time to do dungeons/pvp/raids with 4-40 people, coordinating raid times and loot rules, and then all the prep work in-between.

And MMOs that still ascribe heavily to this game model are dying in job lots, including WoW before it adapted.

Yes, there are a lot of people who give up because they do not enjoy the stress involved with the competitive aspect of rated pvp, but a lot of players enjoy having a good measure for their skill and how to rack themselves up against the best, and enjoy the bragging rights and rewards that come with it.

Given the numbers of people who even participate in Rated PvP (as compared to the number of people who do end-game PvP semi-seriously) ... yeah, not so much.

It's not a magical, spooky, evil number of doom that stops you from being good at this game; it's you. Everyone has the ability to improve and succeed at this game. I believe there was even a story a few years back about a guy with no fingers being able to climb to 1900 in the 2v2 bracket.

Actually, it's math. Even if you are really good (lets say, everyone was 100% equal in skill) - 85% of them would never attain a rating above 1900 because the math of how the system is built wont allow it. Welcome to a Pyramidal Ladder.

And yes, it's a game and most people jump on to kick back, relax, and have some fun. But at it's core, this is a game that rewards time put into it.

Irony is, what he is describing is a method that would reward time put into the game... what you're describing also requires random variables and is NOT about time spent (a lot of people who play Arena do less than an hour a week).

The problem is.. the previous system wasn't broken. It didn't need to be replaced. The new system isn't as good as the old one, by any measure.

There is no reward for most people to even casual PvP - so they dont. Ladder is dying, queue times for randos is skyrocketing.

why bother doing either when you can get gear that is just as good for 30 minutes of WQs (which you HAVE to do anyway because of AP)?

[Volibear]

This would allow people to slowly get better gear through PvP but be enough of a grind that it doesn't invalidate other ways to get gear. So it would allow solo progression in much the same way world quests do.

And no I don't care about what happens to rated BGs and rated arena. You people figure out what should happen to those because I couldn't give a shit about participating in a tedious ladder climb like 90% of players.

"My 110 hours of 1200 rating PvP better get me increased rewards, instead of having to git gud. Time investment > skill"
amidoinitrite

[re1gn1te]

This would allow people to slowly get better gear through PvP but be enough of a grind that it doesn't invalidate other ways to get gear. So it would allow solo progression in much the same way world quests do.

And no I don't care about what happens to rated BGs and rated arena. You people figure out what should happen to those because I couldn't give a shit about participating in a tedious ladder climb like 90% of players.

So you pretty much don't want to get good at PvP so you want to get free gear intead?

[sarkarin]

And MMOs that still ascribe heavily to this game model are dying in job lots, including WoW before it adapted.



Given the numbers of people who even participate in Rated PvP (as compared to the number of people who do end-game PvP semi-seriously) ... yeah, not so much.



Actually, it's math. Even if you are really good (lets say, everyone was 100% equal in skill) - 85% of them would never attain a rating above 1900 because the math of how the system is built wont allow it. Welcome to a Pyramidal Ladder.



Irony is, what he is describing is a method that would reward time put into the game... what you're describing also requires random variables and is NOT about time spent (a lot of people who play Arena do less than an hour a week).

The problem is.. the previous system wasn't broken. It didn't need to be replaced. There is no reward for most people to even casual PvP - so they dont. Ladder is dying, queue times for randos is skyrocketing.

why bother doing either when you can get gear that is just as good for 30 minutes of WQs (which you HAVE to do anyway because of AP)?

Finally someone around here who understands the issue. The queues are getting larger with every expansion. The PvP community is in free fall. The numbers are getting smaller and smaller. The overwhelming majority of PvP players have no way to qualify for good rewards and it's wiping out participation.

You can be an elitist prick about it and throw 90% of the community under the bus or you can find a way to include everyone and make it work. Simple.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

Finally someone around here who understands the issue. The queues are getting larger with every expansion. The PvP community is in free fall. The numbers are getting smaller and smaller. The overwhelming majority of PvP players have no way to qualify for good rewards and it's wiping out participation.

You can be an elitist prick about it and throw 90% of the community under the bus or you can find a way to include everyone and make it work. Simple.

I played 19 2s games this week and got 5 pieces of gear--4 random drops in the bag, and 1 piece from the weekly 10 wins. The longest queue we had to sit at 2200-2300 mmr (a much smaller amount of participation than the 1300 bracket) was around 3 minutes. Five pieces of gear, 3 of which were upgrades, from around 2 hours of playtime. Stressful, but ultimately satisfying to finish the week off with some better gear and a higher rating than we started at. The gear drops were abnormally lucky, yes, but it's pretty rewarding to have a piece of gear drop in your bag after a hard-fought win in the arena.

For funsies, I just now queue'd for a random bg and set a timer. Without anything veto'd and queueing for a dps or a healer, it only took 58 seconds for a game to pop. Where's the abnormally long queue you were talking about? If it's because your faction's queue's are long right now, you can run down to the underbelly and queue with the opposite faction for their faster queue times.

Competition still feels there--hell with the battlegroups being dissolved and having the ability to fight anyone in your region, it feels much more active than it felt in seasons 1, 5, or 9. If you can scrounge up the numbers for activity in the season on the release of the expansion, I'd be interested in seeing it. As for:

The overwhelming majority of PvP players have no way to qualify for good rewards

All you need to do is get a friend or two, press the H button (default hotkey to open up the Player vs. Player window), click either 2v2 or 3v3, and then click Join Battle. Bam! A way for anyone to qualify for good rewards! Even if you don't get past 1500, as long as you break 1399 you start getting 850 ilvl gear.

As much as you may think the old system worked, it ultimately failed in that it awarded mediocrity and even catered to players who would afk or bot instead of participating. You could find groups in the group finder of "losing premades", where they would stand around and do nothing waiting for the other team to win as fast as possible just so they could get quick honor from the end of the match. and then go to a vendor to buy gear.

The new system awards players and teams who try and participate and win games instead of just riding the coattails of the team or waiting for the game to end. Hell, even if you lose just by a hair (say a 1450/1500 Basin), you still have a high chance for winning a piece of gear.

If you want to pvp for gear, then do it and enjoy the competition--that's what pvp is all about anyway...not the gear, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Finally someone around here who understands the issue. The queues are getting larger with every expansion. The PvP community is in free fall. The numbers are getting smaller and smaller. The overwhelming majority of PvP players have no way to qualify for good rewards and it's wiping out participation.

You can be an elitist prick about it and throw 90% of the community under the bus or you can find a way to include everyone and make it work. Simple.

I played 19 2s games this week and got 5 pieces of gear--4 random drops in the bag, and 1 piece from the weekly 10 wins. The longest queue we had to sit at 2200 mmr (a much smaller amount of participation than the 1300 bracket) was around 3 minutes. Five pieces of gear, 3 of which were upgrades, from around 2 hours of playtime. Stressful, but ultimately satisfying to finish the week off with some better gear and a higher rating than we started at. The gear drops were abnormally lucky, yes, but it's pretty rewarding to get a piece of gear drop in your bag after a hard-fought win in an arena match.

For funsies, I just now queue'd for a random bg and set a timer. Without anything veto'd and queueing as a dps or a healer, it only took 58 seconds for a game to pop. Where's the abnormally long queue you were talking about? If it's because your faction's queue's are long right now, you can run down to the Underbelly and queue with the opposite faction for their faster queue times.

Competition still feels there--hell with the battlegroups being dissolved and having the ability to fight anyone in your region, it feels much more active than it felt in seasons 1, 5, or 9. If you can scrounge up the numbers for activity in the season on the release of the expansion, I'd be interested in seeing it. As for:

The overwhelming majority of PvP players have no way to qualify for good rewards

All you need to do is get a friend or two, press the H button (default hotkey to open up the Player vs. Player window, click either 2v2 or 3v3, and then click Join battle. Bam! A way for anyone to qualify for good rewards! Even if you don't get past 1500, as long as you break 1399 you start getting 850 ilvl gear.

As much as you may think the old system worked, it ultimately failed in that it awarded mediocrity and even catered to players who would afk or bot instead of participating. You could find groups in the group finder of "losing premades", where they would stand around and do nothing waiting for the other team to win as fast as possible just so they could get quick honor from the end of the match. and then go to a vendor to buy gear.

The new system awards players and teams who try and participate and win games instead of just riding the coattails of the team or waiting for the game to end. Hell, even if you lose just by a hair (say a 1450/1500 Basin), you still have a high chance for winning a piece of gear.

If you want to pvp for gear, then do it and enjoy the competition--that's what pvp is all about anyway...not the gear, right?

[Geldor]

I played 19 2s games this week and got 5 pieces of gear--4 random drops in the bag, and 1 piece from the weekly 10 wins. The longest queue we had to sit at 2200-2300 mmr (a much smaller amount of participation than the 1300 bracket) was around 3 minutes. Five pieces of gear, 3 of which were upgrades, from around 2 hours of playtime. Stressful, but ultimately satisfying to finish the week off with some better gear and a higher rating than we started at. The gear drops were abnormally lucky, yes, but it's pretty rewarding to have a piece of gear drop in your bag after a hard-fought win in the arena.

For funsies, I just now queue'd for a random bg and set a timer. Without anything veto'd and queueing for a dps or a healer, it only took 58 seconds for a game to pop. Where's the abnormally long queue you were talking about? If it's because your faction's queue's are long right now, you can run down to the underbelly and queue with the opposite faction for their faster queue times.

Competition still feels there--hell with the battlegroups being dissolved and having the ability to fight anyone in your region, it feels much more active than it felt in seasons 1, 5, or 9. If you can scrounge up the numbers for activity in the season on the release of the expansion, I'd be interested in seeing it. As for:



All you need to do is get a friend or two, press the H button (default hotkey to open up the Player vs. Player window), click either 2v2 or 3v3, and then click Join Battle. Bam! A way for anyone to qualify for good rewards! Even if you don't get past 1500, as long as you break 1399 you start getting 850 ilvl gear.

As much as you may think the old system worked, it ultimately failed in that it awarded mediocrity and even catered to players who would afk or bot instead of participating. You could find groups in the group finder of "losing premades", where they would stand around and do nothing waiting for the other team to win as fast as possible just so they could get quick honor from the end of the match. and then go to a vendor to buy gear.

The new system awards players and teams who try and participate and win games instead of just riding the coattails of the team or waiting for the game to end. Hell, even if you lose just by a hair (say a 1450/1500 Basin), you still have a high chance for winning a piece of gear.

If you want to pvp for gear, then do it and enjoy the competition--that's what pvp is all about anyway...not the gear, right?

- - - Updated - - -



I played 19 2s games this week and got 5 pieces of gear--4 random drops in the bag, and 1 piece from the weekly 10 wins. The longest queue we had to sit at 2200 mmr (a much smaller amount of participation than the 1300 bracket) was around 3 minutes. Five pieces of gear, 3 of which were upgrades, from around 2 hours of playtime. Stressful, but ultimately satisfying to finish the week off with some better gear and a higher rating than we started at. The gear drops were abnormally lucky, yes, but it's pretty rewarding to get a piece of gear drop in your bag after a hard-fought win in an arena match.

For funsies, I just now queue'd for a random bg and set a timer. Without anything veto'd and queueing as a dps or a healer, it only took 58 seconds for a game to pop. Where's the abnormally long queue you were talking about? If it's because your faction's queue's are long right now, you can run down to the Underbelly and queue with the opposite faction for their faster queue times.

Competition still feels there--hell with the battlegroups being dissolved and having the ability to fight anyone in your region, it feels much more active than it felt in seasons 1, 5, or 9. If you can scrounge up the numbers for activity in the season on the release of the expansion, I'd be interested in seeing it. As for:



All you need to do is get a friend or two, press the H button (default hotkey to open up the Player vs. Player window, click either 2v2 or 3v3, and then click Join battle. Bam! A way for anyone to qualify for good rewards! Even if you don't get past 1500, as long as you break 1399 you start getting 850 ilvl gear.

As much as you may think the old system worked, it ultimately failed in that it awarded mediocrity and even catered to players who would afk or bot instead of participating. You could find groups in the group finder of "losing premades", where they would stand around and do nothing waiting for the other team to win as fast as possible just so they could get quick honor from the end of the match. and then go to a vendor to buy gear.

The new system awards players and teams who try and participate and win games instead of just riding the coattails of the team or waiting for the game to end. Hell, even if you lose just by a hair (say a 1450/1500 Basin), you still have a high chance for winning a piece of gear.

If you want to pvp for gear, then do it and enjoy the competition--that's what pvp is all about anyway...not the gear, right?

Looking at your armory, still the vast amount of your gear is from pve, although you have a high pvp rank, which I doubt is easily reachable by just going into arenas with a friend once a while. It's just comperatively easier to get pve gear. Your example of 850 ilvl gear also shows that: You get 845 just from WQs in pve, which are definitely easier to do than getting an arena rating of 1500.

For me the biggest problem at the moment is: If you don't like arenas, it really get's hard to do. I just don't enjoy them, but getting organized teams for battlegrounds is much harder to do, than what you have to do in pve to get similar gear (actually much better...).

If you like arena's, then for sure, you still can get some reasonable good gear (but I'm pretty sure that most of the high ranked players are similar to you: getting most of their stuff from pve, then augment with some good (lucky) pvp gear. I could be wrong though).

I don't think providing high ranked gear via prestige ranks is the solution though, because then there is absolutely no relationship between skill and gear level. A "random BG hero" like myself should not have access to high level pvp gear.

But I also think that the current system is not that good, because the awards are just too bad in case you don't go into the arena (which is just one type of pvp). I only pvp for fun, but after a while, I always have a bad feeling of wasting my time, because at my item level (865) it's almost impossible to get an upgrade in pvp.

Mainly, because in difference to pve, you can't target specific gear, it's totally random what you get. So, not only would I need titanforged, but actually titanforged crit gear, and randomly in a specific place (like wrists or something) I need. I think they still have ample space to improve the pvp loot, without running into the problems you mentioned (which were also real).

[mmmmmmmBacon]

Looking at your armory, still the vast amount of your gear is from pve, although you have a high pvp rank, which I doubt is easily reachable by just going into arenas with a friend once a while. It's just comperatively easier to get pve gear. Your example of 850 ilvl gear also shows that: You get 845 just from WQs in pve, which are definitely easier to do than getting an arena rating of 1500.

For me the biggest problem at the moment is: If you don't like arenas, it really get's hard to do. I just don't enjoy them, but getting organized teams for battlegrounds is much harder to do, than what you have to do in pve to get similar gear (actually much better...).

If you like arena's, then for sure, you still can get some reasonable good gear (but I'm pretty sure that most of the high ranked players are similar to you: getting most of their stuff from pve, then augment with some good (lucky) pvp gear. I could be wrong though).

I don't think providing high ranked gear via prestige ranks is the solution though, because then there is absolutely no relationship between skill and gear level. A "random BG hero" like myself should not have access to high level pvp gear.

But I also think that the current system is not that good, because the awards are just too bad in case you don't go into the arena (which is just one type of pvp). I only pvp for fun, but after a while, I always have a bad feeling of wasting my time, because at my item level (865) it's almost impossible to get an upgrade in pvp.

Mainly, because in difference to pve, you can't target specific gear, it's totally random what you get. So, not only would I need titanforged, but actually titanforged crit gear, and randomly in a specific place (like wrists or something) I need. I think they still have ample space to improve the pvp loot, without running into the problems you mentioned (which were also real).

In my case, I go and knock out world quests and the odd mythic+ more often than I end up queuing for arena. I'd estimate I'd killed more mythic+ or raid bosses than I have won 2s games.

For players who primarily pve, yes it's hard to get rolling in rated pvp and feel like the gear you're getting from it is worth it, at least early on. If you intend to compete for titles, mounts, transmog, or just bragging rights, then gear is a non-issue--the only thing that matters on your gear is higher ilvl, and it makes little difference. As I said before, Artifact Traits are a glaring inconsistency there, but we'll see how that gets handled.

As for gearing just through pvp, it's a measure of scale--who puts their time almost exclusively in pvp vs someone who does only here and there.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Lakerx/simple This is a guy I see in the class hall queuing for games whenever I'm there--360 games in 2s, 1100 games in 3s, and who knows how many RBGs. Excluding the legendary and artifact, all but 2 pieces of his gear are from PvP. He may have even gotten all of his relics and his legendary from PvP as well, as it was confirmed you can get a legendary from winning pvp games.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jetorty/simple This is the top rated player in the 3v3 bracket in the US region. 200 games in 2s and 700 games in 3s. Same thing as the last guy.

I've scanned through here and there and seen a few of the top rated guys with gear from outside of pvp, but should be expected when they've got a Mythic Xavius kill or two. PvP gear is randomly itemized , but the only thing that matters in rated PvP is the item level. I've got a few 875 pieces in my bags that I don't use when I'm killing dungeon bosses because they haven't got haste, and it's why I'm using an 840 ilvl trinket instead of an 870 one chilling in the bags.


The original argument was to add rewards to the Prestige system, effectively hand-outs, which I heavily disagree with. Then it turned into "you can't gear from pvp", and that is absolutely incorrect. The rewards from non-rated pvp are on-par with how they've been in the past--in the area of heroic dungeon/raid finder/mythic dungeon ilvl. If you want better rewards you should have to earn them just as players who want better rewards from pve content must--step into the more difficult content.

[Miff]

I just want a sure fire way to target an item. i'm sick of getting 3 of the same elite item with dog shit stats. I want the mog and/or i want the item with the correct stats so i can actually use it during raids/etc. I can live without the latter, but shiiiettt, that druid mog!!

[Geldor]

In my case, I go and knock out world quests and the odd mythic+ more often than I end up queuing for arena. I'd estimate I'd killed more mythic+ or raid bosses than I have won 2s games.

For players who primarily pve, yes it's hard to get rolling in rated pvp and feel like the gear you're getting from it is worth it, at least early on. If you intend to compete for titles, mounts, transmog, or just bragging rights, then gear is a non-issue--the only thing that matters on your gear is higher ilvl, and it makes little difference. As I said before, Artifact Traits are a glaring inconsistency there, but we'll see how that gets handled.

As for gearing just through pvp, it's a measure of scale--who puts their time almost exclusively in pvp vs someone who does only here and there.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Lakerx/simple This is a guy I see in the class hall queuing for games whenever I'm there--360 games in 2s, 1100 games in 3s, and who knows how many RBGs. Excluding the legendary and artifact, all but 2 pieces of his gear are from PvP. He may have even gotten all of his relics and his legendary from PvP as well, as it was confirmed you can get a legendary from winning pvp games.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jetorty/simple This is the top rated player in the 3v3 bracket in the US region. 200 games in 2s and 700 games in 3s. Same thing as the last guy.

I've scanned through here and there and seen a few of the top rated guys with gear from outside of pvp, but should be expected when they've got a Mythic Xavius kill or two. PvP gear is randomly itemized , but the only thing that matters in rated PvP is the item level. I've got a few 875 pieces in my bags that I don't use when I'm killing dungeon bosses because they haven't got haste, and it's why I'm using an 840 ilvl trinket instead of an 870 one chilling in the bags.


The original argument was to add rewards to the Prestige system, effectively hand-outs, which I heavily disagree with. Then it turned into "you can't gear from pvp", and that is absolutely incorrect. The rewards from non-rated pvp are on-par with how they've been in the past--in the area of heroic dungeon/raid finder/mythic dungeon ilvl. If you want better rewards you should have to earn them just as players who want better rewards from pve content must--step into the more difficult content.

Big difference is: You can't target gear & more difficult content means basically you have to do arena. In pve they went the other way (which I find better), which is to open up high level pve gear for large and small scale groups.

I know the randomness of stats on pvp gear is no problem for pvp - but it is in pve - which means on average for someone who does both, it's just much easier to get pve gear. Look at yourself. What I meant by the way, but stated clumsily is, that people who do both pve and pvp on a similar high level, will have most of their gear from pve (because it's easier to get). I don't doubt that top rated pvp-people have pvp gear mostly. But I worded what I meant awkward.

As I said, I agree with you that prestige level is not a solution, but I think you your view is also a bit too rosy on how the pvp gear is done.

[Kagthul]

If you want to pvp for gear, then do it and enjoy the competition--that's what pvp is all about anyway...not the gear, right?

No, and that's what the tiny minority of people like you cant seem to get through your head.

It's an MMO. The ENTIRE GAME is a skinner box dedicated to character advancement, and right now, PvP is one of the WORST ways to advance your character - even for PvP!

You're better off doing PvE to get gear to PvP.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

No, and that's what the tiny minority of people like you cant seem to get through your head.

That's funny, maybe you should ask Splyce about that. I don't recall there being a grand prize at Blizzcon of $120,000 for the PvE raid tournament or the Best In-Game Transmog contest.

It's an MMO. The ENTIRE GAME is a skinner box dedicated to character advancement, and right now, PvP is one of the WORST ways to advance your character - even for PvP!

You're better off doing PvE to get gear to PvP.

No one was really disputing the fact that PvE is mostly better for gearing your character up for PvP; this isn't new, and was an issue back in Classic, BC, WotLK, and all the way until they disabled trinkets, legendary weapons, and set bonuses in instanced-PvP. And while gearing through PvP isn't perfect or ideal if you intend to do anything other than instanced-PvP, it's still absolutely possible and done by a larger number of the high-end pvpers of the now.

Hell, in any instanced-PvP, gear is not even close to being as important as how it's been in past seasons; You just throw on whatever has the highest ilvl in your bags and you might just get 1 or 2% more stats through Principles of War. (Artifact traits are another story).

[Tyrannica]

And what is with those that enjoy arenas,because small teams are easy to organize, but do not enjoy the new gear system? These people exist, too!

Why are there stat templates, making gearing for pvp not meaningful anymore?

Why is there randomness in how i get my gear in pvp?

I think there should be a pvp gearset back, with higher ilvl for just contributing in doing all sorts of pvp with the option to get it way faster with rated pvp. That system worked before.

Elite gear on the other hand, should be only achieved with a higher rating and should also have always higher stats, the problem with mop and wod was, elite gear had no additional stats and it was just cosmetic -----------------> less incentive to play for a rating, so a combination of old and recent pvp gear concepts could work best.

Prestige is rewarding enough, does not need gear. It even gives tons of AP.

[sarkarin]

Keep defending the almighty ladder and watch the community burn then. You can write a wall of text about how in your experience everything is dandy and the fault of the players but in the end the truth is always vindicated. The structure only works for less than 10% of players. If you are foolish enough to think that 'system' works then I pity you.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

Keep defending the almighty ladder and watch the community burn then. You can write a wall of text about how in your experience everything is dandy and the fault of the players but in the end the truth is always vindicated. The structure only works for less than 10% of players. If you are foolish enough to think that 'system' works then I pity you.

"It doesn't work for me, therefore it doesn't work"

It's not a broken system at all: if you're good at PvP, you get better gear for it. If you're good at PvE, you get better gear for it.

You're just asking for hand-outs.

[Tyrannica]

"It doesn't work for me, therefore it doesn't work"

It's not a broken system at all: if you're good at PvP, you get better gear for it. If you're good at PvE, you get better gear for it.

You're just asking for hand-outs.

And i wonder why, since those perhaps extra 20 ilvl you can get with rated pvp, are almost usless in anything pvp, because in addition wpvp is dead.

Its really a non-issue. It would be an issue if there was some cool wpvp again....with no stat templates in check, but there isn't one.