Mythic Cenarius help

[Ehrgein]

Hello there, sorry for making yet another thread about this but, I'm rather curious if it looks like we have the damage to get him to 35% or not before the 3rd wave, we have been using the zerg strat but I can't identify exactly what's the problem.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done I'm mostly interested in wipe number 7, where we got the sister down yet we needed 5% more on Cenarius, is it that they changed too soon to adds or stood on them too long? are the wisps taking too long? any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, any personal tips (I'm the vengeance DH) are also appreciated.

[Deleted]

Hi, watching your logs i can tell you a few things,

DPS :
first your dpses are parsing too low, you have 3 hunters & 3 rogues, none of the rogues should be below 400k
Some of your dpses (havoc dh, one ass rogue) didnt pop old war potions, thats bad
Only one of your hunters popped a deadly grace

If you struggle on bringing cenarius below 35%, focus cenarius before killing the sister, with only 6 melees including 3 rogues the scorned touch shouldnt be much of an issue, pre split when the timer indicates 3s, and leave cenarius ass open for the dps without the debuff (if you plan to ignore the sister and focus cenarius)
Consider using vantus rune to kill him

Why is your SP only at 310k dps? ask him to pop s2m earlier if that can help you go to phase 2 , also he died from brambles on your 7th pull, so yeah definitely tell him to s2m earlier if he is forced to move like this (consider leaving him turret mode since u have 3 hunters & 3 rogues to clear brambles)

You have almost the same ilvl as my guild , no way you should be that far from the 35% with only 4 healers (btw you have to get him to 35% before he starts the cast or you're toast)
https : // www . warcraftlogs . com /reports /RbBMFhrQWf1GnpNk#fight=7&type=damage-done heres your logs
https : // www .warcraftlogs . com /reports /byYrqaNC1WwGKXAL#fight=24&type=damage-done here are our if you want to compare (only our first mage had the 35th trait if you wonder)

Healing :

If your healers can hold it , just do as i did and stick onto cenarius ass, tell your team to pop their defensives for the scorned touches & thorns so you can push safely, else just kill the sister (our strat was to put her on the boss for the free cleave)
I doubt it works with 4 healers though, even if your healers seem to be very good

Tanking: nothing seems abnormal here, maybe consider swapping yourself with the dk since the dk can't deal very well with the spear phase 2

Thats all that comes of the top my head, hoping that helps

[Ehrgein]

Hi, watching your logs i can tell you a few things,

DPS :
first your dpses are parsing too low, you have 3 hunters & 3 rogues, none of the rogues should be below 400k
Some of your dpses (havoc dh, one ass rogue) didnt pop old war potions, thats bad
Only one of your hunters popped a deadly grace

If you struggle on bringing cenarius below 35%, focus cenarius before killing the sister, with only 6 melees including 3 rogues the scorned touch shouldnt be much of an issue, pre split when the timer indicates 3s, and leave cenarius ass open for the dps without the debuff (if you plan to ignore the sister and focus cenarius)
Consider using vantus rune to kill him

Why is your SP only at 310k dps? ask him to pop s2m earlier if that can help you go to phase 2 , also he died from brambles on your 7th pull, so yeah definitely tell him to s2m earlier if he is forced to move like this (consider leaving him turret mode since u have 3 hunters & 3 rogues to clear brambles)

You have almost the same ilvl as my guild , no way you should be that far from the 35% with only 4 healers (btw you have to get him to 35% before he starts the cast or you're toast)
https : // www . warcraftlogs . com /reports /RbBMFhrQWf1GnpNk#fight=7&type=damage-done heres your logs
https : // www .warcraftlogs . com /reports /byYrqaNC1WwGKXAL#fight=24&type=damage-done here are our if you want to compare (only our first mage had the 35th trait if you wonder)

Healing :

If your healers can hold it , just do as i did and stick onto cenarius ass, tell your team to pop their defensives for the scorned touches & thorns so you can push safely, else just kill the sister (our strat was to put her on the boss for the free cleave)
I doubt it works with 4 healers though, even if your healers seem to be very good

Tanking: nothing seems abnormal here, maybe consider swapping yourself with the dk since the dk can't deal very well with the spear phase 2

Thats all that comes of the top my head, hoping that helps

Thanks a lot for this, since the new potions were implemented I have only been keep up to date with vengeance DH potions but, now that I checked every top 10 in every class everyone pretty much uses old war / deadly grace. Thanks for that, that should change a lot. I know we have the ilvl, it's sad to see it so high, I even went for damage talents and I'm putting as much single target damage I can on cenarius, that's why I mostly go for tanking him instead of our DK, and because of gorefiends aswell.

I guess I'll change around some members and see how it goes, some people are underperforming in almost every pull, what do you think of a ret paladin, though? does might and their cleave on the treant change anything?

Also, thanks for the help, gonna check your logs now.

[Deja Thoris]

You need to push the boss by 2:45 so the first obvious step is to pot.

The fight *should* become easier after you've pushed him so sacrificing the shadow priest to make the push is perfectly acceptable. This means he should surrender at one minute in. To do this he should pop PI on the pull so its up for his surrender. At one minute he should enter his surrender void form and void torrent immediately. About a minute into his surrender he should pop a prolonged power pot. If he does it really well he will survive just over 2 min but 1:45 should be *enough* for his part.

Other stuff.
1) Everybody should second pot at a good time for them - but so the pots expire before 2:45. If they are using prolonged power this means at latest 1:45.
2) Consider vantus runes
3) Get a brambles clearing rotation.
4) Don't die to wisps. This means using healing CD's and personals here (rally / darkness etc). Pop health potions regardless here after a couple detonate to prevent random deaths.
5) Your healers can push a lot more damage for the first few seconds. Your hpala can use proper pots and double his output. When its touch and go as to if you'll make a dps check it all matters.


5)

[Adramelch]

Vantus runes should be a no-brainer with that tactic for the first kill. They're neutral in regards to the reflect aura (since for every 1% damage increase, versa also reduces damage taken by 0.5%), so it's literally free DPS.

[Eapoe]

I haven't checked your logs, but something else that helps greatly is setting up a rotation of tanks/heals clearing Brambles and never have your dps do it. We also used 2nd potion on the sister phase while saving lust for Cenarius sub 30%. Also to save time, if you haven't already get your BoP/CD rotation planned out for your tanks for spear phase. Once we made it there the next 5 wipes we had was just getting that aspect hammered down.

[Deleted]

I haven't checked your logs, but something else that helps greatly is setting up a rotation of tanks/heals clearing Brambles and never have your dps do it. We also used 2nd potion on the sister phase while saving lust for Cenarius sub 30%. Also to save time, if you haven't already get your BoP/CD rotation planned out for your tanks for spear phase. Once we made it there the next 5 wipes we had was just getting that aspect hammered down.

Euh, this is pretty poor advice all around.
Outside of paladin I dont think theres a single healer who can easily clear but spriest/hunter/rogue are the ones that can do it from the dps.
Using second pot on sister is bad since (espec melee) wont have a lot of uptime on her.
There is absolutely 0 point in using BL sub-30 as that fight is incredibly easy (as long as your tanks rotate cooldowns correctly & people avoid walls), in fact I highly doubt you can 2-phase without lusting on pull.

[Adramelch]

They're doing the burst tactic, which relies on lusting on pull. Also in regards to the Brambles, your shadow priests are going to disperse within s2m at some point so they might as well clear brambles with it. Your rogue can also clear them when going from the boss to the sister or the opposite. A tank with freedom or an hpala with bubble will also do the trick.

[Deleted]

To answer your question, for the healers you should really consider replacing your second resto shaman, his healing is abysmal (only over 50% on 1 parse, when usually you should be parsing super high on wipes on cenarius due to the high amount of damage early compared to late (as people have mentioned before, p2 is really easy once you can get a transition with 18+ people alive & people learn to dodge walls).

[Eapoe]

Euh, this is pretty poor advice all around.
Outside of paladin I dont think theres a single healer who can easily clear but spriest/hunter/rogue are the ones that can do it from the dps.
Using second pot on sister is bad since (espec melee) wont have a lot of uptime on her.
There is absolutely 0 point in using BL sub-30 as that fight is incredibly easy (as long as your tanks rotate cooldowns correctly & people avoid walls), in fact I highly doubt you can 2-phase without lusting on pull.

Maybe we lusted on pull, can't remember, but sounds right. As far as healers clearing, you have a paladin that can easily clear, BoP on tanks/heals to clear. We've even had our BDK clear with Wraith Walk. Keep in mind, you don't need to clear every Bramble, you jus need to get most and ensure you can move freely.
2nd pot on sister is for rdps and melee sitting on Cenarius, and melee that run out to help sister using a prolonged power will have plenty of benefit time from a pot. This also kills her faster and puts everyone back on Cenarius much faster to help push as last phase is a joke with the right CD's on the tanks.
If you aren't making the dps check it is more beneficial to have a tank/healer clear brambles and have no downtime on the boss at all.

[Ehrgein]

Vantus are being used, thanks everyone for the comments. I had my resto shamans talk about it last night and the other one helped the low one. So it might go better from now on.
What I'm curious about is some people's dps, should hunters be higher? keep in mind those are wipes so parses are somewhat skewed but, I feel our blood dk is not pushing as much damage as he could, besides him not potting.

[Katelockwell]

Your shadow priest being more concerned with his damage once cenarius gets to execute phase as opposed to actually pushing to the execute phase is going to be one of the biggest changes. That 5% you're missing could almost be made up by him alone if he would surrender at/near the start of the fight instead of once you've already missed the timer. Two minutes 25 seconds into the fight when you guys are missing the target by a long shot is when he decided to surrender. He also doesn't bother with a second potion.

It also doesn't help that your demon hunter is took damage from breath seconds before he died. Overkilled by 65k, that would have left him at 160k HP if he didn't get hit by the breath.

Nobody's using health potions, either.

A single health potion also would have prevented the death of your demon hunter. Three strikes on this one, he ran into range of the breath, didn't bother with any health potions or health stones, and he also doesn't bother to use a defensive cooldown at all while he's taking damage for 20+ seconds. He used it earlier in the fight, but it would have been off of cooldown for him at this point.

Euh, this is pretty poor advice all around.
Outside of paladin I dont think theres a single healer who can easily clear but spriest/hunter/rogue are the ones that can do it from the dps.
Using second pot on sister is bad since (espec melee) wont have a lot of uptime on her.
There is absolutely 0 point in using BL sub-30 as that fight is incredibly easy (as long as your tanks rotate cooldowns correctly & people avoid walls), in fact I highly doubt you can 2-phase without lusting on pull.

Having trouble making dps timer, and you suggest using three of the higher dps classes to clear brambles. I can't for the life of me fathom why you would think that having a tank sit on the boss is more beneficial than having dps sit on the boss when they are having issues meeting the dps check.

Literally the only poor advice was lusting for phase 2, lust on pull.

[Eapoe]

Your shadow priest being more concerned with his damage once cenarius gets to execute phase as opposed to actually pushing to the execute phase is going to be one of the biggest changes. That 5% you're missing could almost be made up by him alone if he would surrender at/near the start of the fight instead of once you've already missed the timer. Two minutes 25 seconds into the fight when you guys are missing the target by a long shot is when he decided to surrender. He also doesn't bother with a second potion.

It also doesn't help that your demon hunter is took damage from breath seconds before he died. Overkilled by 65k, that would have left him at 160k HP if he didn't get hit by the breath.

Nobody's using health potions, either.

A single health potion also would have prevented the death of your demon hunter. Three strikes on this one, he ran into range of the breath, didn't bother with any health potions or health stones, and he also doesn't bother to use a defensive cooldown at all while he's taking damage for 20+ seconds. He used it earlier in the fight, but it would have been off of cooldown for him at this point.

Having trouble making dps timer, and you suggest using three of the higher dps classes to clear brambles. I can't for the life of me fathom why you would think that having a tank sit on the boss is more beneficial than having dps sit on the boss when they are having issues meeting the dps check.

Literally the only poor advice was lusting for phase 2, lust on pull.

Yeah, I admitted my mistake about lust P2, definitely lust on pull. Was thinking of our first few attempts before we decided on burn start.

[Ehrgein]

Your shadow priest being more concerned with his damage once cenarius gets to execute phase as opposed to actually pushing to the execute phase is going to be one of the biggest changes. That 5% you're missing could almost be made up by him alone if he would surrender at/near the start of the fight instead of once you've already missed the timer. Two minutes 25 seconds into the fight when you guys are missing the target by a long shot is when he decided to surrender. He also doesn't bother with a second potion.

It also doesn't help that your demon hunter is took damage from breath seconds before he died. Overkilled by 65k, that would have left him at 160k HP if he didn't get hit by the breath.

Nobody's using health potions, either.

A single health potion also would have prevented the death of your demon hunter. Three strikes on this one, he ran into range of the breath, didn't bother with any health potions or health stones, and he also doesn't bother to use a defensive cooldown at all while he's taking damage for 20+ seconds. He used it earlier in the fight, but it would have been off of cooldown for him at this point.

Having trouble making dps timer, and you suggest using three of the higher dps classes to clear brambles. I can't for the life of me fathom why you would think that having a tank sit on the boss is more beneficial than having dps sit on the boss when they are having issues meeting the dps check.

Literally the only poor advice was lusting for phase 2, lust on pull.

Thanks, didn't really thought about checking for health potions, I thought it was a given since I repeat it 4 times per day... but thanks, will do it twice as often.

Will relay all of it to our shadow priest, I told them to do that but they insisted that they couldn't or would die way earlier, but maybe they didn't took that your way into consideration.
Thanks a lot for this.

[Katelockwell]

Thanks, didn't really thought about checking for health potions, I thought it was a given since I repeat it 4 times per day... but thanks, will do it twice as often.

Will relay all of it to our shadow priest, I told them to do that but they insisted that they couldn't or would die way earlier, but maybe they didn't took that your way into consideration.
Thanks a lot for this.

No problem.

Ultimately your priest will die earlier in the fight. The more important thing for you guys at the moment is making the push, and that's not going to happen with the current st up if he doesn't surrender. Phase two is pretty much such a joke that you can almost kill it with just 10 people left alive. Everyone's main focus should be getting it to 35% in time and staying alive.

[Ehrgein]

No problem.

Ultimately your priest will die earlier in the fight. The more important thing for you guys at the moment is making the push, and that's not going to happen with the current st up if he doesn't surrender. Phase two is pretty much such a joke that you can almost kill it with just 10 people left alive. Everyone's main focus should be getting it to 35% in time and staying alive.

That's what I try to push into their minds, phase 2 is nothing compared to phase 1. I'm doing a bit of player switching, as in, replacing our dk because he takes a fuckload of time to react to either picking wisps/sister, or his damage overall, not to mention the fact that he never uses potions. Much appreciated, again.

[Ehrgein]

Your shadow priest being more concerned with his damage once cenarius gets to execute phase as opposed to actually pushing to the execute phase is going to be one of the biggest changes. That 5% you're missing could almost be made up by him alone if he would surrender at/near the start of the fight instead of once you've already missed the timer. Two minutes 25 seconds into the fight when you guys are missing the target by a long shot is when he decided to surrender. He also doesn't bother with a second potion.

It also doesn't help that your demon hunter is took damage from breath seconds before he died. Overkilled by 65k, that would have left him at 160k HP if he didn't get hit by the breath.

Nobody's using health potions, either.

A single health potion also would have prevented the death of your demon hunter. Three strikes on this one, he ran into range of the breath, didn't bother with any health potions or health stones, and he also doesn't bother to use a defensive cooldown at all while he's taking damage for 20+ seconds. He used it earlier in the fight, but it would have been off of cooldown for him at this point.

Having trouble making dps timer, and you suggest using three of the higher dps classes to clear brambles. I can't for the life of me fathom why you would think that having a tank sit on the boss is more beneficial than having dps sit on the boss when they are having issues meeting the dps check.

Literally the only poor advice was lusting for phase 2, lust on pull.

Hello, first of all, sorry for bumping. I just wanted to let you know that your advice and everyone else's got us as far as 5%, I assume? we should be killing him tonight. I decided to tell them to use prolonged power when the wisps came in so the extra hp bump along with ancient healing potions would prevent random deaths.
Thanks for everything, everyone.

[Deleted]

Having trouble making dps timer, and you suggest using three of the higher dps classes to clear brambles. I can't for the life of me fathom why you would think that having a tank sit on the boss is more beneficial than having dps sit on the boss when they are having issues meeting the dps check.

Literally the only poor advice was lusting for phase 2, lust on pull.

The only way the tanks can clear is with freedom (which has a 15 second cooldown).

It seems like their only paladin is on drake duty, which makes it risky to have him run to the group to give freedom to the tank so he can clear because it might cause a dragon to breath in the direction of the group, which will inevitably clip people since the range is very hard to gauge.

Outside of freedom, tanks can't cleanse, hence me suggesting that they should have mobile dps do it.

[Eapoe]

The only way the tanks can clear is with freedom (which has a 15 second cooldown).

It seems like their only paladin is on drake duty, which makes it risky to have him run to the group to give freedom to the tank so he can clear because it might cause a dragon to breath in the direction of the group, which will inevitably clip people since the range is very hard to gauge.

Outside of freedom, tanks can't cleanse, hence me suggesting that they should have mobile dps do it.

Easily rectified by switching tanks around or having the Paladin put freedom on a healer in range of him (there's always one) and can still clear brambles without having a dps do it to make the damage points they need. Someone also pointed out the Spriest can do it with Disperse since they need to anyways. Point is, there are work arounds to only having 1 Paladin which still lets them clear Brambles without pulling dps off the boss if they struggle to do damage needed.

[Deleted]

Gonna hijack this post instead of making a new

We're currently working on Cenarius, and trying our luck with the zerg tactic. We've only had like 10 pulls on him, so all we've really learned so far is that wisps are bad and hurt a lot. I am, however, a bit concerned about our dps. I know we have 2:45 to transition him, but right now thats not where we are in our progression. As such, I was wondering about what percentage we should roughly aim for as the first add dies as well as when the sister spawns. Right now we're around 65-60% when the tree dies, which seems to be on the low side to me, yet Im just not sure.

Also, what do you do in terms of damage on the sister? How many people do you usually allocate for her?

Cheers