Is this for real ? (HUGE nerf to secondary stats for ALL specs)

[BiggestNoob]

Awful troll is awful.

Thanks for letting us know you don't play this game!

Anyone else want to confess?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Isn't this kind of like an overall tuning thing? If it affect us all equally, how much will we even notice in game?

[Deleted]

Isn't this kind of like an overall tuning thing? If it affect us all equally, how much will we even notice in game?

But, but the sky is falling!

[Chrno]

i am more worried about my class changes then about the overall secoundary stats change.
I think reaching haste caps shouldn't be so easy to reach as they currently are so i don't really mind this change.

[s_bushido]

Isn't this kind of like an overall tuning thing? If it affect us all equally, how much will we even notice in game?

Different classes/specs scale differently.

[Deleted]

Isn't this kind of like an overall tuning thing? If it affect us all equally, how much will we even notice in game?

It will be very noticeable for a lot of classes since their gameplay is about getting some secondary stat tressholds due to their class mechanics (regen, procs, etc) to feel smooth. Scaling isn't equal, therefore the effect won't be equal.

While i understand why blizzard is doing this, this way, it should make everyone bother about it how we are not even mid expansion and this is happening.

[Wries]

You don't really want to equip an 865 with the optimal stats because your average ilvl will be low and it WILL be the only thing the guy recruiting from MM will see.

Issue here is that designed a whole MM system around the idea of gearscore. Now they have to reinforce and make it so that only the newest gear leads to the most powerful character. Leaving out interesting gear choices (e.g. a trinket staying somewhat relevant throughout the expansion lifecycle and inciting runs for older content) and for real reducing everything down to the number.

But with that said, I really can't think up a better solution for all of this. Neither could Blizzard, unfortunately.

[Murderdoll]

Isn't this kind of like an overall tuning thing? If it affect us all equally, how much will we even notice in game?

No.

Does every class scale and behave the exact same way when you take away X Haste? X Mastery? X Crit? No of course not. This is not simply taking away damage done. This is changing a behavior of specs.

----

Real easy way to fix this would be to make Agility/Str/Int to be the exciting/attuned stat. Instead of it simply being damage done. Agility now affects Stormbringer procs for example. Then use the other secondaries to slightly tune speed/gcd and damage scaling. That means you care more about ilvl over secondaries because an ilvl increase will always have more primary stat.

The issue theyve created is that secondary stats are the interesting ones. They influence how we play.

Probably not a change for 7.1.5 or 7.2 though. Theyve kinda screwed themselves on this one. Theyre fucked either way. Theyve given us too much secondary stats (an issue we noted in Beta) but on the other hand. Its very hard to give players these stats and get us used to a certain playstyle/speed etc then just pull the rug out. They run the risk of doing exactly opposite of what they said they want to do and that is log in one day and the playstyle is completely different.

[Stardrift]

I actually went to work today. Then to the gym. Did some shopping. So thank you, but Ive been outside a bit.

Again, you have totally failed to comprehend the issue we all have with the change. My overall DPS number comparative to everyone else is meaningless. I do not care about it, so the fact EVERYONE is getting the nerf has absolutely zero bearing on my issue with the change.

My issue with the change. For the umpteenth time, but at this rate we know you are either a) feigning ignorance in order to troll or b) are actually stupid. Is that the changes, affect the way the classes feel and how they work. IE, they are nerfing fun. If you take away X% Haste and Mastery from lets say an Enhance Shaman, you take away what makes them play in a fast paced environment.

No it doesn't lol. You're just very slightly slower, or very slightly weaker. As is with everyone else. Let's say your class was shit from the start and everyone else was better. All stats nerfed. You're shitter than you were before, but so is everyone else. You're still at the same level of shitness you were before when compared to everyone else.
And again, why insult? It's petty. You're, again, trying to argue with someone online. It's pointless.

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Thanks for letting us know you don't play this game!

Anyone else want to confess?

Why do you act like that's such a good insult lol.
You don't play the game if you're so busy and obsessed with micromanaging your stats to the point where you actually go red to the face in anger when you see stats have been nerfed. Instead of, you know, playing the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't this kind of like an overall tuning thing? If it affect us all equally, how much will we even notice in game?

We'll notice virtually none of it. Just like in the past. There'll be that odd one who's a lil on the special side that cares incredibly deeply about some numbers and statistics in a video game, but hey, those kinds of people are not to blame for how their mind works.

[MasterHamster]

Let's try something completely different.
Consider if these new numbers they're toying with was in at launch. Would there be a problem?

If not, why would there be now. You (and literally every other player) losing 1-3% output.

[clevin]

Let's try something completely different.
Consider if these new numbers they're toying with was in at launch. Would there be a problem?

If not, why would there be now. You (and literally every other player) losing 1-3% output.

Fucking hell... the people saying this either aren't playing or are clueless. The issue is NOT output. We'll be fine there as long as they tune Nighthold etc with the new weights in mind.

The issue is that HOW I play is affected by secondaries. I play a Destro Lock. To cast spells, I need Soul Shards. To get them I cast Immolate on a mob and each tick has a 15% chance to give me a shard... and ticks are affected by haste. So I want as much haste as I can reasonably get in order to get shards so I can cast, at least to the point were shard generation becomes a minor or non-issue .

When I have lower haste, shards generate slower and I'm stuck, unable to cast things like Chaos Bolt. This is not fun or engaging.

Now, sure, they could adjust for this by increasing the chance that an Immolate tick will give me a shard from 15 to, say, 18%. But that's just for MY spec. To offset things like this, they really need to work though all of the specs where a stat has significant effect on the smoothness of the play style... and then they'll get it wrong for some because it's complex. So they'll need to adjust AGAIN.

[MasterHamster]

Fucking hell... the people saying this either aren't playing or are clueless. The issue is NOT output. We'll be fine there as long as they tune Nighthold etc with the new weights in mind.

The issue is that HOW I play is affected by secondaries. I play a Destro Lock. To cast spells, I need Soul Shards. To get them I cast Immolate on a mob and each tick has a 15% chance to give me a shard... and ticks are affected by haste. So I want as much haste as I can reasonably get in order to get shards so I can cast, at least to the point were shard generation becomes a minor or non-issue .

When I have lower haste, shards generate slower and I'm stuck, unable to cast things like Chaos Bolt. This is not fun or engaging.

Nothing here really contradicts what I said... but fine, using "output" was the wrong way to state the point.
You'll be losing a couple percentages of haste, and the only reason you're frustrated about this change is because it's being implemented post-launch.

But yes, for a while, your haste % will be back at the level it was perhaps weeks ago depending on your gearing, I'm sorry, but this argument that changes to stat per % mid expansion is causing you to feel your character will be less fun to play (until you get to some other magical haste breakpoint?) doesn't mean much in the big picture.

All in all, this change is a slight setback in character secondarys to avoid a much bigger issue down the line, and players are as always blowing it out of proportion just because it's a nerf right now. This is a game-wide adapt change that'll pretty much affect no one but the guys who calculates stat weights

Now, sure, they could adjust for this by increasing the chance that an Immolate tick will give me a shard from 15 to, say, 18%. But that's just for MY spec. To offset things like this, they really need to work though all of the specs where a stat has significant effect on the smoothness of the play style... and then they'll get it wrong for some because it's complex. So they'll need to adjust AGAIN.

There's no real need for any minor changes to offset this minor change that'll sort itself out as our gear becomes even better over time..
This is just what I tried to point out. Players look at the now and can't accept changes to the "basic rules" established on launch if it results in a ever so slight nerf to characters.

Frostbolts damage has been increased by 20%,
Frostbolts damage has been increased by 20% again,
Frostbolts damage has been decreased by 20%
(1*1.2*1.2*0.8 = 1.152)
Why do you hate Frost mages blizzard???

[Lolsteak]

Nothing here really contradicts what I said... but fine, using "output" was the wrong way to state the point.
You'll be losing a couple percentages of haste, and the only reason you're frustrated about this change is because it's being implemented post-launch.

Personally i'm losing 8-9% crit as a DH when combined with the flat 5% crit nerf, That heavily affects the DH rotation due to Chaos Strike refunding half Fury on crit.

The DH rotation already had a fair amount of waiting without the Legendary ring (Which is also getting halved), All these changes are making resource generation an absolute chore.

[Nihilan]

The runaway power creep from stat scaling does absolutely need to be reigned in. The other side of that coin however is that quite a few specs play like utter garbage with low levels of certain stats (mostly haste) due to the inherent slowness of the rotation or resource generation.

I have been playing this game for over a decade. I have no faith whatseover that Blizzard will be able to properly balance these upcoming changes. Eventually yes. But in the interim? For the next six months?

Why do you think they are making it so much easier to reroll alts?

[Tharkkun]

This was intentional. Secondaries scale at a much slower rate, so a massive nerf now is going to remain a massive nerf for the remainder of the expansion. We're already about 80% of the secondaries we'll see at 950+ ilvl.

I guess people don't pay attention to what happens in beta.





What exactly is it like to know nothing about this game?

Except we don't have the build on the PTR yet where the secondaries are buffed back to our current levels. The changes will effect how they scale going forward. So maybe you should pay attention to the communication from Blizzard?

Goal 3: Don’t lower player power. This is a key part of the overall strategy that isn’t yet complete. Right now, on the PTR, player power is definitely down a few percent compared to live. The next build will have changes that increase the total amount of stats given by all items above level 800 to account for this gap, such that the overall power of your equipped items should be about the same (if not slightly higher) than it is currently in 7.1.

[clevin]

Nothing here really contradicts what I said... but fine, using "output" was the wrong way to state the point.
You'll be losing a couple percentages of haste, and the only reason you're frustrated about this change is because it's being implemented post-launch.

But yes, for a while, your haste % will be back at the level it was perhaps weeks ago depending on your gearing, I'm sorry, but this argument that changes to stat per % mid expansion is causing you to feel your character will be less fun to play (until you get to some other magical haste breakpoint?) doesn't mean much in the big picture.

All in all, this change is a slight setback in character secondarys to avoid a much bigger issue down the line, and players are as always blowing it out of proportion just because it's a nerf right now. This is a game-wide adapt change that'll pretty much affect no one but the guys who calculates stat weights



There's no real need for any minor changes to offset this minor change that'll sort itself out as our gear becomes even better over time..
This is just what I tried to point out. Players look at the now and can't accept changes to the "basic rules" established on launch if it results in a ever so slight nerf to characters.

"Hey, we're setting you back weeks but it's OK, right?"

No. No it's not. I paid for those weeks. I played the game to get to where I am. Fuck, I paid for an expansion that was supposed to be designed well out of the gate. Seriously, they had close to a year in pre-release public testing plus private in house testing... and NOW they're realizing that having secondaries be so important is an issue? REALLY?

You act like this was unavoidable but it's entirely due to some pretty basic, obvious decisions:

1) Make secondaries almost as important as primaries
2) spend item budget so you have a good chunk of it in secondaries
3) Design at least some specs so their rotation gets smoother as 1 or more secondaries increase.

Did they even think about why secondaries were always worth about half of the primary stat in the past, not 80%+?

So, while you might be fine with this, I'm not.


PS: The thing that's really galling is that this is one of those aspects of the game that really CAN be simulated with math. It should have been easy to see how much item budget pieces would have at various levels and the effect of that on the % of a stat that the player character would end up with, etc.

[beelgers]

Except we don't have the build on the PTR yet where the secondaries are buffed back to our current levels. The changes will effect how they scale going forward. So maybe you should pay attention to the communication from Blizzard?

Goal 3: Don’t lower player power. This is a key part of the overall strategy that isn’t yet complete. Right now, on the PTR, player power is definitely down a few percent compared to live. The next build will have changes that increase the total amount of stats given by all items above level 800 to account for this gap, such that the overall power of your equipped items should be about the same (if not slightly higher) than it is currently in 7.1.

Everyone is ignoring this part (this will bring those crit/haste levels back in in a lot of places) because it is easier to complain. I have a feeling that overall we'll see very slight differences for most people. The sky is probably not falling here.

[LaserChild9]

I'm not blaming them to test this, it's just stupid they're not telling anybody that they're testing it.

Hence why we should react.

And if they had told us about it before do you really think that the reaction would have been any different? I think we all know that in this case, Blizzard were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
Personally I don't see the big issue, first off, it nerfs everyone, secondly it's only on the PTR. Sure it makes current dps checks hard, maybe even unreachable, but obviously they will change that by adjusting bosses appropriately, they are not gonna make any content impossible.

[Deleted]

Thats what happen when you overhelm your game with gear and huge powercreeep kicks in. Blizzard get them self into spot where game stop making sense and is on bring of being broken. All that scaling, legendary, items, 2 15151 difficulty levels only making game more and more broken each expansion.

[Saracens]

Enough of the bickering and the personal attacks. Continue the discussion on the topic at hand and not the users within the thread.