New mage trying to decide whether to go Arcane or Frost in 7.1.5

[Paunche]

Hello everyone. So i retired my warlock and started up a mage. Just hit 110 and was wondering if Arcane is any better in 7.1.5?

currently it looks like Frost is better.
Will Frost continue to be better than Arcane in 7.1.5?

Thanks for your input.

[Salystra]

Frost has been and always will be the go to for PVP, although its been viable in the past for PvE (even I played it and I do love frost) they seem unable to balance correctly between pvp and pve elements (this may change given now we have dual pvp talents etc).

Due to this I myself am going with the theory that it will suffer buff/nerf cycles if deemed OP in PvP which will directly impact pve.

Given that we are "locked" into specs more than ever I would go with the safer option of Arcane/Fire as Frost is the gamble (Fire right now has been gutted but I'm hoping it will get better) but if not at the higher end of the scale raiding wise then play whatever spec you feel most comfortable playing.

For reference I will be going Arcane/Fire but keep my frost weapon ~level26 for gold traits.

[Cablok]

I would go arcane, even now before the patch arcane absolutely destroys frost on any sort of 3+ target fight. While frost may sim higher on ST it's pretty difficult to achieve those numbers, currently my arcane spec can compete for top spots somewhat.

Another reason i'd go arcane is because of the introduction of mythic+ dungeons. Arcane is the BEST spec I've played from the mage specs in m+ dungeons. The aoe you do on trash is bonkers and fights are either full burn in lower m+ or gaming quickening ( which will no longer be a thing since PTR talents are making single target better via overpowered talent.) allows for great boss damage.

Frost strengths: Single Target and Two Target cleave (splitting ice)

Arcane Strength: Aoe, Burst

Note: This is from the perspective of someone with all major artifact traits completed in every spec, a separate set of gear for each spec as well as experience on all heroic bosses. Mythic experience 1/7 with attempts on dragons. But all things considered the above strengths should be the same regardless of ilvl. M+ experience is a level 13 completion so far, consistently 11-12

[Deleted]

It is too early to say what will become superior - it is still all subject to change.

[Amaterasu65]

Have in mind that TV build gets a little nerfed via Frozen Touch and Ebonbolt nerfs. However as already stated, it's too early to judge.

[Deleted]

Oh a mage who doesn't wants to be fire, I'm not alone :P. In my opinion mage goes Frost > Arcane > Fire. After some fixes they are not so distant from each other, and fire is a bit "boring" (it is not boring but feels strange). I prefer to play frost (it's my favourite dps spec in the game speaking both in pvp and pve) with Glacial Spike (OH GOD you will one-shot disturbing adds, 2-3M dmg, seriously) and even if you have "Splitting Ice" it DOES affect not only ice lances but that mofo Glacial Spike (so you have a dual ice blast which dual frozen so you next dual-icelance will deal tons of dmg). Also if you mantain frost bomb you are the "cleave/semiAoE" master doing pure single target damage (even ignoring blizzard). It's a very fast, and mobile spec, and never had any doubt (maybe pre-cataclysm it was purely pvp). Arcane rocks too, you have to know how to manage an ultra burst phase and then maintain recovering mana, trying to lose little DPS (Arcane damage is affected by mana %). Don't let fire mages tell you that is the only pve viable spec because I am tired of seeing fire mages who don't know how to get even a 3 crits chain.

[pies1]

GS build mobile? Aside from Frozen orb it's 100% hard cast spells. TV is far more mobile.

[Sylvaeres]

Oh a mage who doesn't wants to be fire, I'm not alone :P. In my opinion mage goes Frost > Arcane > Fire. After some fixes they are not so distant from each other, and fire is a bit "boring" (it is not boring but feels strange). I prefer to play frost (it's my favourite dps spec in the game speaking both in pvp and pve) with Glacial Spike (OH GOD you will one-shot disturbing adds, 2-3M dmg, seriously) and even if you have "Splitting Ice" it DOES affect not only ice lances but that mofo Glacial Spike (so you have a dual ice blast which dual frozen so you next dual-icelance will deal tons of dmg). Also if you mantain frost bomb you are the "cleave/semiAoE" master doing pure single target damage (even ignoring blizzard). It's a very fast, and mobile spec, and never had any doubt (maybe pre-cataclysm it was purely pvp). Arcane rocks too, you have to know how to manage an ultra burst phase and then maintain recovering mana, trying to lose little DPS (Arcane damage is affected by mana %). Don't let fire mages tell you that is the only pve viable spec because I am tired of seeing fire mages who don't know how to get even a 3 crits chain.

You're talking about mages not knowing how to play their class, while saying the GS build is mobile and that Frost is the best spec and Fire is the worst. I think you need to settle down

[Paunche]

Thank you for replies guys!

[Deleted]

Arcane looking the strongest currently but impossible to say right now.

[deepr]

I like Frost but I get the feeling it's almost impossible to play it perfectly. Most of the time I just can't get an optimal rotation going because you have to move so much during boss encounters. There's just too much going on and a lot of it is very much anti-caster. It's like melee classes have it 10 times easier to do some proper damage.
Or maybe I'm getting too old for this game.T_T

[Deleted]

You're talking about mages not knowing how to play their class, while saying the GS build is mobile and that Frost is the best spec and Fire is the worst. I think you need to settle down

but getting those 5,5+ million crits with GS is so good tho, problem with TV is you're dependent on getting FoF procs and sometimes you'll get periods of dry spells so you need to game it a lot more by literally casting every spell that can potentially proc FoF. GS is a lot more straight forward, it might not be as mobile as TV but you can still save up those icelances for when movement comes.

[flovust]

I would go arcane, even now before the patch arcane absolutely destroys frost on any sort of 3+ target fight. While frost may sim higher on ST it's pretty difficult to achieve those numbers, currently my arcane spec can compete for top spots somewhat.

Another reason i'd go arcane is because of the introduction of mythic+ dungeons. Arcane is the BEST spec I've played from the mage specs in m+ dungeons. The aoe you do on trash is bonkers and fights are either full burn in lower m+ or gaming quickening ( which will no longer be a thing since PTR talents are making single target better via overpowered talent.) allows for great boss damage.

Frost strengths: Single Target and Two Target cleave (splitting ice)

Arcane Strength: Aoe, Burst

Note: This is from the perspective of someone with all major artifact traits completed in every spec, a separate set of gear for each spec as well as experience on all heroic bosses. Mythic experience 1/7 with attempts on dragons. But all things considered the above strengths should be the same regardless of ilvl. M+ experience is a level 13 completion so far, consistently 11-12

You really do under estimate frost in M+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojxxc_-nxqI

and his M+ guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNJQfKNSvoQ

[Brewhan]

go arcane and fuark up the club bro!

[Freesya]

I'm playing frost and happy with it. My guild is a casual raiding one (7/7 HC, 3/3N) and I leave my arcane colleague far behind. Never had issues in M+ either, and did M+11. Frost is a very dynamic, easy to move around and viable spec for me. Never liked fire and this expac has not changed it, and Arcane I find too boring and static.
But that's a persnal opinion you do not have to follow.
Even at the start of Legion, when Fire were gods, I still played Frost and didn't regret it.

My strong advice: play the spec that YOU like most and feel comfortable in. The numbers will come and go, but the fun is most important.

[Deleted]

You really do under estimate frost in M+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojxxc_-nxqI

and his M+ guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNJQfKNSvoQ

There's difference between doing it in time and actually doing boost level damage. NL is fine for frost but almost every other dungeon is pretty bad for them.

Frost destroys pretty much every spec in st no movement with right legendaries. Cleave is great and aoe is shit. New changes make it a bit better.

Arcane has higher burst and great aoe, however sustained st without cds is bad. Definitely the choice for m+.

If you want to have spec for raid go frost if for m+ go arcane. Arcane will still be alright for raids and will be better on certain fights. Frost is great, but only with certain legendaries imo.

So it comes down to playstyle in raids but for m+ just go arcane.

[unknownbeef]

As we are getting closer to 7.1.5, is it still too early to tell which spec seems dominant for ST/raid ?

[Obelisk Kai]

As we are getting closer to 7.1.5, is it still too early to tell which spec seems dominant for ST/raid ?

Yes, it is all a numbers game right now and, if people are right, Blizzard still has three weeks to make adjustments (two for practical purposes due to the Holidays). So the numbers can and very likely will change again before patch launch and maybe even after Nighthold launches if they get more raid data.

I was surprised to not see a build this week tweaking the numbers further so that they could gather data over the holidays.

[Fayenoor]

Have in mind that TV build gets a little nerfed via Frozen Touch and Ebonbolt nerfs. However as already stated, it's too early to judge.

Isn't that the story always? Either it is always too early to judge, or it is always too late to fix anything.

[Amaterasu65]

Isn't that the story always? Either it is always too early to judge, or it is always too late to fix anything.

Exactly, that's why make a hard guess based on most likelihood (if it makes any sense), in combination with what you like playing best.