"Legion has the most unbalanced PvP ever"

[Deleted]

The problem isn't even balance, it's just boring.

the fact that the friendlist emptied faster than wod even is the real bad sign.

[Appelgren]

The only thing i can remember that was as stupid as monks are this season would be s5 blood dks.

They were nerfed eventually. Monks are just getting buffs while they continue to faceroll the ladders.

Season 2 will fix it!!

[Tyrannica]

Disagree entirely. This game is still skill based, and there's still room for outplaying the enemy. My friend is a prime example of that.

My friend is not that good. His maximum rating was 1800 in the past, when the game "took skill". With your logic, he should be above 2000 rating now because he's playing a mongo class (Feral Druid).

Nope, he's 1600. Living breathing proof that there are distinct differences between good players and shit players.

This does not proove anything at all? We do not know which comp he played and what skill level his mates had and if he has switched mates, or his mates switched classes and so on. Lot of lacking information here, that "proof" is not valid, sry.

See above.

And vice versa.

Good! Rogues should not be able to run away forever. I don't want to go back to the days where games lasted forever because each team was just hiding/peeling and resetting CDs each time the opponent went for a kill. Rogues should have a weakness, and now they do.

You speak a lot about arena, but with that one comment it seems you never entered the arena? Did you know that all serious rogues took always shadowstep in arenas? BoS was used in bgs and PvE. It did not hurt much other than some scrubs not to be able to land a kill in unrated pvp, but thats not the point, what did HIT the rogue was the removal of some cc among all specs and the pruning of preperation.

All I see in that video is a salty Rogue trying to tell us that 2v2 is unbalanced by training a low mobility class that was being countered by RDruid HoTs. /noshit

In 3v3, Rogues can be peeled. They can be countered. They can no longer spam CC on the enemy team and leave them helpless while they run around spamming Eviscerate on the kill target. And that apparently takes more skill? I call that having too much utility.

This is not about a bracket its about how the rogue and many other melees do work, however the rogue is the best example, because he was about cc and burst and not tunneling a target with high constant dmg like a FDK. SIN does not work other than that no matter the bracket or situation, the other 2 specs are gutted. Blizz simply destroyed class identity here.
What do you think what happens to the flood of DKs in 3s right now, when blizz finally nerfes their dmg to the ground? It will soon enough proove, that modifying the dmg knobs will not be enough to make classes useful and interesting to play in PvP. These are actions done by devs that only know how to handle PvE tuning. And it certainly shows.

Besides, name me a rogue who is not salty? And i name you people that ended their subs./pun intended.

I'm by no means saying that Rogue should stay weak. It's clear Rogue needs some number/mechanical fixes if they need to be viable again. But for god sake, they do not need an overloaded kit with 5 different CCs. That's just making the problem worse.

I think you still do not understand the problem, which is the design and not, if they are too weak or too strong? CC is their trademark and makes them unique as a melee, because other melees do not have that much cc and shouldn't be rogues? Why not just remove them, if you think its just about numbers? Because it certainly isn't their main problem, stupid scaled pvp templates not beeing equal to all classes - just adds to the design flaws they got in all THREE specs!

And talking about such a thing like "balance" which i do not care much -in all honesty gameplay is the thing i care - Legion is still the most unbalancend PvP ever, simply because there is no pvp gear that makes pvp unique and attracts more people other than glads and r1 players in their sandbox. Or did you miss that most people skipped pvp for pve, and this was the reasion? There is no need to even talk about broken classes because of failed "class identity" attempts along with pruning that legion brought to us?

I wonder what class you main anyways?!

Do you really think balance is just made by numbers? Or is balance the balance between PvE and PvP that is currently broken?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...than-WoD/page5

how about these numbers?

Besides since its important for you, for whatever reasion:

Why do you think 3s are balanced when they are not? What class do you main that gives you that weird PoV, because its simply not happening in my part of the multiverse, i gave you that arenamate link, but you never commented on the class representation other than DHs are not there? I do not consider DH right now at all, because they are a new class and are always presented lower in numbers, similar what happened with the monk when MoP launched, but rogues(again) are close in class representation among the DHs - a 12 year old class, designed about Arenas, i might add, destroyed on purpose by pvp templates, thats not even an "accident" downplayed by devs in previous expansions.

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...r=3v3&faction=

14 DHs and only 24 rogues are in the highrated 3s (EU+US) - Explain this with balance? How come that even hunters, no one wanted to play in 3s have 60 playing over 2,6k+ rating in 3s? Not even need to talk about druids and monks here. BOTH are overpresented in multiple specs!
If thats a forced meta caused by pvp templates, i want templates to be removed for good and this so called fake "balance", which is just about how many druid specs of the 4 they have are FOTM each month. This is hardly the game that used to be. I remember BC and introduction of arenas and how powerful pure dds were accross the board, and now people tend to whine about little shits like BoS...or a selfheal. I wished all the noobs would play in BC again and get stunlocked or feared to death on a regular basis. I know for sure, that many people did not start with Vanilla and BC nowdays and are crybabies. I never EVER complained about balance in BC, how about this? While still stunlocked, feared to death and all that crap. I loved it, actually. Because i could do it too, on my pure DD that is, not some fucking hybrid, master of all class. That was balance. Pure dds feared for their CC and bursty dmg. Not like in legion, hybrids dominating all the meta, because artefacts made it so that almost all specs can global people. And everyone must have cc too.......for no reasion. How about these ferals and ww monks only have selfheal and dmg and no cc at all? There is that so called class identity in legion? Obvousily that excuse for pruning only counts for certain classes. Fact is dude, a cc and pure dd class like a rogue/mage/lock can have 5 CCs and its no problem, but other classes that could tank and heal, should have not even 1 cc. Because that is actually balance. Can a rogue heal like a monk or druid? No? Why is that? But, druid and monk can cc like a rogue too?

Oh lets use the 3s are balanced excuse for class inbalances like this. Do i carry 2 other dudes around whenever i want to do pvp? even when i decide to play early in the morning? Is this a game like pet battles where i carry at all times 3 pets with me, ready for combat? Do i control 3 chars or 1? These are the questions of balance my friend.

Finally: I do not know what crusade you are planing here, but it certainly didn't go your way...wouldn't be surprised if you are Holinka in disguise either, promoting new pvp changes. Stating everything is allright, while the majority of the com thinks otherwise!

And now excuse me, i rather like to do some pet battle pvp. Because this is what i consider balanced 3vs3 in the year 2016.

[Lightbull]

This discussion has turned into whether or not Rogue is fun, disregarding the balance of the game itself. Therefore, PvP is not the most unbalanced the game has ever been, since other xpacs had many, many more issues. I think I've made my point here, but I'll reply to a few of these statements.

This does not proove anyhting at all? We do not know which comp he played and what skill level his mates had and if he has switched mates, or his mates switched classes and so on. Lot of lacking information here, that "proof" is not valid, sry.

I thought you were trying to argue that PvP takes no skill? Why does this information matter?

You speak a lot about arena, but with that one comment it seems you never entered the arena? Did you know that all serious rogues took always shadowstep in arenas? BoS was used in bgs and PvE. It did not hurt much other than some scrubs not to be able to land a kill in unrated pvp, but thats not the point, what did HIT the rogue was the removal of some cc among all specs and the pruning of preperation.

This is not about a bracket its about how the rogue and many other melees do work, however the rogue is the best example, because he was about cc and burst and not tunneling a target with high constant dmg like a FDK. SIN does not work other than that no matter the bracket or situation, the other 2 specs are gutted. Blizz simply destroyed class identity here.

I'd argue that Blizzard has made class identity better here. Before, all Rogue specs were about CC, damage, and mobility. They all just did their roles a little differently. Same issue with Hunters, though Rogue is probably a less severe case. Now, we have a bit of identity. Assassination has a large focus on damage, Outlaw has CC and utility, and Subtlety has mobility. Obviously, Outlaw and Subtlety are really lacking in damage, but their damage should never match Assassination.

What do you think what happens to the flood of DKs in 3s right now, when blizz finally nerfes their dmg to the ground? It will soon enough proove, that modifying the dmg knobs will not be enough to make classes useful and interesting to play in PvP. These are actions done by devs that only know how to handle PvE tuning. And it certainly shows.

I think you still do not understand the problem, which is the design and not, if they are too weak or too strong? CC is their trademark and makes them unique as a melee, because other melees do not have that much cc and shouldn't be rogues? Why not just remove them, if you think its just about numbers? Because it certainly isn't their main problem, stupid scaled pvp templates not beeing equal to all classes - just adds to the design flaws they got in all THREE specs!

I don't think you understand the design philosophy. Frost DK has a ton of damage, but we've already seen in 7.0 that a damage focused spec is useless without said damage. As with Assassination, Frost won't get gutted because it doesn't have anything else to bring to the table aside from ridiculous peels. Some people like it like that. Not every class should be a fast paced mechanic heavy spec like Rogue. May I remind you that this game is, and always has been, a casual game. Maybe the casual Rogues enjoy Assassination and Subtlety. The pros will stick to whatever class is best like usual, but you and the rest of the Rogues that like the utility it gave, should go Outlaw. You don't seem to mind that idea, since you're arguing against Rogue in general instead of a single spec.

Rogue still has a lot of CC for a melee. Especially the CC focused one, Outlaw. 6 second ranged stun (if you have Deeper Strategem, which you should), 4 second Cheap Shot, 8 second Blind, 5 second Kick, 4 second Gouge, 6 second disarm (if you took Dismantle), and any others that I missed.

The other two specs aren't lacking in CC either. Assassination loses Blind and Gouge for Garrote, Sub loses Gouge but keeps Blind, and has 3 Shadow Dance charges so they can use Cheap Shot even more. Both specs don't have a ranged stun, but have a melee stun with a longer duration. Name one melee spec that has more CC than the Rogue.

Sub Rogue is no longer a god spec with an overloaded kit. It can take it's place on par with the rest of the melee classes now.

Now that I think about it, I bloody hope Outlaw doesn't become FotM, because that CC is going to be ridiculous...

And talking about such a thing like "balance" which i do not care much -in all honesty gameplay is the thing i care - Legion is still the most unbalancend PvP ever, simply because there is no pvp gear that makes pvp unique and attracts more people other than glads and r1 players in their sandbox. Or did you miss that most people skipped pvp for pve, and this was the reasion? There is no need to even talk about broken classes because of failed "class identity" attempts along with pruning that legion brought to us?

Why has PvP balance got anything to do with the gearing system? I agree that PvP needs something more in order to make it more fun and customizable, but that has nothing to do with the balance of the game. Starting to think you have a warped idea of what PvP balance actually is.

Before you jump on the ilvl differences, that ilvl difference is negligible. Even casual PvPers that rely on only PvP gear get to at least ilvl 840, which is only 4% lower than the pros. Ilvl doesn't even matter to them anyway. Anyone who actually tries to play arena has an even smaller difference, making it even more negligible.

I wonder what class you main anyways?!

Elemental Shaman. Don't be fooled by my avatar, I haven't played Paladin in months.

Do you really think balance is just made by numbers? Or is balance the balance between PvE and PvP that is currently broken?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...than-WoD/page5

how about these numbers?

I can't explain this. But with the points I've made I can assure you it's not because of PvP balance.

Besides since its important for you, for whatever reasion:

Why do you think 3s are balanced when they are not? What class do you main that gives you that weird PoV, because its simply not happening in my part of the multiverse, i gave you that arenamate link, but you never commented on the class representation other than DHs are not there? I do not consider DH right now at all, because they are a new class and are always presented lower in numbers, similar what happened with the monk when MoP launched, but rogues(again) are close in class representation among the DHs - a 12 year old class, designed about Arenas, i might add, destroyed on purpose by pvp templates, thats not even an "accident" downplayed by devs in previous expansions. Its intended to suck like this. I say screw this game!

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...r=3v3&faction=

14 DHs and only 24 rogues are in the highrated 3s (EU+US) - Explain this with balance? How come that even hunters, no one wanted to play in 3s have 60 playing over 2,6k+ rating in 3s? Not even need to talk about druids and monks here. BOTH are overpresented in multiple specs!
If thats a forced meta caused by pvp templates, i want templates to be removed for good and this so called fake "balance", which is just about how many druid specs of the 4 they have are Fotm each month. This is hardly the game that used to be. I remember BC and introduction of arenas and how powerful pure dds were accros the board, and now people tend to whine about little shits like BoS...or a selfheal. I wished all the noobs would play in BC again and get stunlocked or feared to death again on a regular basis. That was balance. Pure dds feared for their CC and bursty dmg. Not like in legion, hybrids dominating all the meta, because artefacts made it so that almost all specs can global people. And everyone must have cc too.......for no reasion. How about these ferals and ww monks only have selfheal and dmg and no cc at all? There is that so called class identity in legion? Obvousily that excuse for pruning only counts for certain classes.

Class representation has always been messed up. The overpowered specs are several percentages above the rest. Not a hard concept to grasp.

Most of this is just rambling about how bad Rogue is or how good the old days were (subjective), but the part in bold is an absolutely ridiculous claim and I shouldn't need to explain why.

Finally: I do not know what crusade you are planing here, but it certainly didn't go in your way...wouldn't be surprised if you are Holinka in disguise either promoting new pvp changes. Stating everything is allright, while the majority of the com thinks otherwise!

My "crusade" is to dispel the negativity floating around the game. Players kick up a stink about issues in the game but never look at the things that are good. Does that make me a white knight fanboy? No, I give plenty of criticism about WoW too. Does it matter? No.

There are problems in the game. But being negative about every little thing is going to give Blizzard a warped idea of what they need to fix.

[Tyrannica]

Rogue still has a lot of CC for a melee. Especially the CC focused one, Outlaw. 6 second ranged stun (if you have Deeper Strategem, which you should), 4 second Cheap Shot, 8 second Blind, 5 second Kick, 4 second Gouge, 6 second disarm (if you took Dismantle), and any others that I missed.

Sweet, so you found out that Outlaw still has a lot of CC a true sherlock here explaining me my own class, but since this is about pvp i would like to show me even 1 high rated outlaw...... i am waiting.

Actually outlaws are hard countered by any plate melee team especially palas. They do absolutely no dmg, all you can do as an outlaw is to stick to a healer and prevent any healing he could do for a certain amount of time. Obviously while still efffective in low rated 3s its not at high rated.

Sub Rogue is no longer a god spec with an overloaded kit. It can take it's place on par with the rest of the melee classes now.

Your ele, certainly likes this. Won't be for too long, i count on blizz that they will make sub op again but still dump to play, legion sub is nothing like wod sub, numbers aside. Its now a dumb spec with 2 buttons, what was once a more difficult spec to play. And its still unbalanced. Too powerful in the beta, useless and unrewarding after hitting the live servers. well done.

Now that I think about it, I bloody hope Outlaw doesn't become FotM, because that CC is going to be ridiculous...

here we agree finally....that would be horrible, but only because outlaw is the least rogue-like spec imaginable. not much is needed for this actually, give outlaw a way to ignore armor(make it creative so its not the same as war/uh) because outlaw mainly does physical attacks but without colossos smash or the sweet little arp stat, invented and removed in wotlk, makes this source of dmg ineffective against many melee comps.(you may watch Dalaran Games streams who explaines this problem well by doing arena games as outlaw, you'll get simply outplayed by plate teams even though you have that cc kit)

Also revert the nerf of plunder armor in the pvp talent tree after all plunder armor was nerfed by 50% shortly after legion went live- voila burst is back.
Actually what makes me angry is, that blizz made most radical changes not in the beta but shortly after it all went live. Did not notice this with the same extend with other classes. Hence, i said they had ample time to do deal with balance issues and got MASSIVE feedback in the beta forums as well.
But i bet, its too complicated for blizz to fix the problem outlaw has with plate teams in creative class unique ways(btw a simply ghostly strike that was moved from sub to outlaw in the legion redesign could just lower armor and its a tier1 talent). Btw, wotlk rogues still had expose armor as a base ability for all specs, reducing armor by 20% - http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=8647

If you look on talent trees before cata was a thing, you start to wonder why so many abilities and talents that made actually sense gameplay wise and for the class identity were removed? This counts for all classes not just rogues.

Not really a surprise why people want legacy servers, thats not some blindfolded nostalgica the game simply was more fun back then, because it was quite different balanced in a way that was more satisfying.

Actually even a cheaper way would be to just let the dreadblades deal partly shadow dmg similar to the scourge strike of an unholy dk, but i think ghostly strike with arp will open more choices to this gameplay and finally give this talent actually a sense.(it has nearly no impact right now no matter the content)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you feel about the balance between pure DD classes and hybrids regarding pvp?

This is why i think BC had the best PvP balance and also most people that wanted to play it.

Its simply no comparission to the dead pvp com nowdays.

When did you start to play wow? Because it seems you were not part of the old BC pvp com, where arena was actually invented and there was the right balance between classes in a way that made it fun and addictive to play.
Wotlk and S5? I never touched pvp in wotlk, it was entirely a PvE addon. PvP innovations and pvp class balance all went into BC.

BC was the first and last expansion with a strong focus on PvP. R.I.P. Burning Crusade! A shining example how PvP balance and content should be done!

[chronia]

Not really a surprise why people want legacy servers, thats not some blindfolded nostalgica the game simply was more fun back then, because it was quite different balanced in a way that was more satisfying.

While not a real avid PVPer myself, i just dabble in it from time to time, i do think this statement is True. Vanilla is definately where i had the most fun PVPing. Not that i ranked very high, think Luitenant Commander on both of my Vanilla characters, but i had a lot of fun fighting at Xroads, Southshore / Tarrenmill, Alterac Valley's that would last for a day or 2, swinging constantly in favor of each side. But also after raid BG queueing to blow off some steam (esp if we queued into our server hordes HWL premade), we had alot of very nice BG's against those guys, which were always pretty tight, we even got a thread going on our realm forums with ppl from both teams commenting on the matches and expressing how fun and tightly matched they were (i guess for them it was a break from farming non premades, and for us something else to do besides raiding).

As for true balancing ofc Vanilla wasn't that great, esp 1v1, who doesn't remember rogues being to kill ppl naked with only a lvl 1 dagger equipped because most if not all of their abilities didn't scale really well with gear, but had a high base damage at their highest rank, or my Warlock where i could fear / dot kill ppl for days, and for example on my warrior i remember one/two shotting classes like mages who like 0 armor before the weapon damage normalisation nerf if you had a slow weapon like a Arcanite reaper.

[Tyrannica]

As for true balancing ofc Vanilla wasn't that great, esp 1v1, who doesn't remember rogues being to kill ppl naked with only a lvl 1 dagger equipped because most if not all of their abilities didn't scale really well with gear, but had a high base damage at their highest rank, or my Warlock where i could fear / dot kill ppl for days, and for example on my warrior i remember one/two shotting classes like mages who like 0 armor before the weapon damage normalisation nerf if you had a slow weapon like a Arcanite reaper.

It was pure fun, because you found op stuff at every corner, it wasn't exclusive to a class not even rogues. I started with a SL/SL lock in BC season 2. No healer/caster was able to compete with me, they actually just filled up my hp bar like a midnight snack.(mages, shadowpriest for example) healers like druids were feared to death it was a quick death, not too much waiting here.

On the other side any rogue, especially undead rogue, bm hunter and warrior smashed locks to tiny little bits and we did not stood a small chance even. Its a radical balance, but i loved it.

I think i loved it mainly because CC was a big deal and mostly pure dds like mages, locks, rogues had plenty of it and while it was effective, too. And hybrids did not dominate all of the pvp scene and healers actually were pretty vulnerable facing 1 dd, if not played correctly.

[Lightbull]

Sweet, so you found out that Outlaw still has a lot of CC a true sherlock here explaining me my own class, but since this is about pvp i would like to show me even 1 high rated outlaw...... i am waiting.

Actually outlaws are hard countered by any plate melee team especially palas. They do absolutely no dmg, all you can do as an outlaw is to stick to a healer and prevent any healing he could do for a certain amount of time. Obviously while still efffective in low rated 3s its not at high rated.

This is why we have stat templates. Buff their damage a little and they will be fine. Part of me is excited to see Outlaw have a place in the meta, but at the same time I'm terrified.

How do you feel about the balance between pure DD classes and hybrids regarding pvp?

It has never really bothered me.

When did you start to play wow? Because it seems you were not part of the old BC pvp com, where arena was actually invented and there was the right balance between classes in a way that made it fun and addictive to play.
Wotlk and S5? I never touched pvp in wotlk, it was entirely a PvE addon. PvP innovations and pvp class balance all went into BC.

BC was the first and last expansion with a strong focus on PvP. R.I.P. Burning Crusade! A shining example how PvP balance and content should be done!

You got me, I started in Wrath. But, I have plenty of friends who have played TBC, they have given me most of my knowledge about the game back then.

Most people seem to big up Wrath PvP when it really wasn't that great. I want to jump on a TBC server just to see why people miss it so much, and to see how it compares to the other xpacs.

[Krusza]

Disagree entirely. This game is still skill based, and there's still room for outplaying the enemy. My friend is a prime example of that.

My friend is not that good. His maximum rating was 1800 in the past, when the game "took skill". With your logic, he should be above 2000 rating now because he's playing a mongo class (Feral Druid).

Nope, he's 1600. Living breathing proof that there are distinct differences between good players and shit players.

That's anecdotal. I've seen enough people go from 1600 to 2200+ this season. I've literally seen backpeddling DKs at 2.1 mmr. Not just once either.

Whenever I lost a game this expansion, I didn't feel like it was because they were better. Even in WoD, you could tell if people were good. You can't anymore. Sure there are differences, there are still going to be people at 1600 because they don't even keybind, but there isn't any observable difference between a 2k player and a 2.5k player, except what comp they're playing, lucky queue streaks, and the amount of games played.

Hence why I've quit. The fact you can face something like WWDK with two backpeddling rats derping about all over their keyboard, probably drooling from the mouth and lose to it, there's no point in playing.

[Tyrannica]

You got me, I started in Wrath. But, I have plenty of friends who have played TBC, they have given me most of my knowledge about the game back then.

Most people seem to big up Wrath PvP when it really wasn't that great. I want to jump on a TBC server just to see why people miss it so much, and to see how it compares to the other xpacs.

I never liked wrath pvp, but BC pvp was awesome. i hope you can expierence it one time.

- - - Updated - - -

Hence why I've quit. The fact you can face something like WWDK with two backpeddling rats derping about all over their keyboard, probably drooling from the mouth and lose to it, there's no point in playing.

Well, the comp is called "Walking Dead" for a reason!

[Deleted]

Wut?

Let's just ignore the fact that triple BM Hunter existed in early MoP, and Arms was able to 1 shot.

Let's just ignore the fact that season 5 DKs were a thing, as well as Ret for most of Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that some casters were able to nearly 1 shot people back in Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that Vanilla PvP was a thing.

Let's just ignore the fact that some eSports games in Wrath ended in 4 seconds due to the immense burst damage the game had back then.

Let's just ignore the fact that before WoD most specs were completely unviable.

Yeah PvP isn't in the best spot right now but it's much more balanced than it was in the past.

EDIT: Also, the first season of an expansion is always shit. I'm saving my judgment for PvP in the later patches.

And what about those of us who only played for wpvp? MoP had Timeless Isle which was great, no repeat of that in Legion and wpvp is worse then its ever been in history of this game.

[Lightbull]

And what about those of us who only played for wpvp? MoP had Timeless Isle which was great, no repeat of that in Legion and wpvp is worse then its ever been in history of this game.

Well yeah World PvP is messy right now, I was referring to arena.

[Gungnir]

I think the main issue is that not only does some classes have absolutely insane damage, but with the whole dumbing down of classes to fit the masses or whatever form of intrinsic value they seem to put in the whole "preservation of class identity", it has become increasingly difficult to avoid getting globaled into infinity since all classes lost almost all of their CC.

This cuts almost 70% of the available ways of deal with someone bursting in arena other than personal defensives, and even that is lacking in most classes.
Also as stated before, due to the removal of PvP gear and the stat template, clinical and stale status of BG's, WPvP is in the worst state it has ever been.
EDIT: due to the above issue, dueling is also completely broken now, which was one of the things I used to do tons of.

[salate]

Wut?

Let's just ignore the fact that triple BM Hunter existed in early MoP, and Arms was able to 1 shot.

Bro, that was only for a week. (my best friend and me were bm+arms )
What we see now continues for 4-5 month?

[Aleksej89]

Balance has always been shit.

I am just happy i do not have to farm PVP gear for days/weeks on every spec/character just to have a chance of actually doing something in a BG.

[Deleted]

The only thing that explains the level of incompetence from the PVP team is that they are just a side team. They have to bow to the PVE raid encounter overlords who design the whole game and gameplay around raids and bosses.

I remember the days when you could 50 sec CC someone in pvp for months during vanilla. And despite the introduction of DRs on CCs the game is still a stunfest since Cataclysm.

Don't you think that pvp with so much CC and barely any skillshot is not already disqualifying enough?

- - - Updated - - -

I think the main issue is that not only does some classes have absolutely insane damage, but with the whole dumbing down of classes to fit the masses or whatever form of intrinsic value they seem to put in the whole "preservation of class identity", it has become increasingly difficult to avoid getting globaled into infinity since all classes lost almost all of their CC.

This cuts almost 70% of the available ways of deal with someone bursting in arena other than personal defensives, and even that is lacking in most classes.
Also as stated before, due to the removal of PvP gear and the stat template, clinical and stale status of BG's, WPvP is in the worst state it has ever been.
EDIT: due to the above issue, dueling is also completely broken now, which was one of the things I used to do tons of.

Dude there is already too much CC in the game despite pruning. They removed mostly utility abilities rather than CC. Adding more CC just makes things worse, once your trinket is on CD, what do you do when people can use stuns all the time? Thats the most boring way of globaling people: stun+insane burst

[Riistov]

I would say Legion is the worst pvp has been since season 5. That season (when DKs were implemented) was the most broken the game ever was and I doubt it will ever get that bad again (DKs being able to solo 3v3 at a fairly high rating).

But yeah cataclysm was a lot better, TBC was way better, MoP was way better, even WoD was better depressingly enough. It's really strange how they have control over pvp templates now but it's as if the devs don't play the same game as everyone else, the incompetence is staggering even for Blizzard.

"In my opinion" is missing from all of these statements. Not even sure what type of pvp you're talking about 3v3? RBG?

In my opinion, arena feels a lot better than it has in a long time. The problem with WoD was that matches became FAR too formulaic for my tastes. You knew when iceblock was coming, knew when to expect a deep into a poly, knew when spell reflect was coming, knew when you were going to get HoJ'd into a Freezing trap.

The thing I really enjoy about Legion so far is that, by removing a lot of CC interaction, they have changed the strats up quite a bit. I never know what strat teams are going to come with when I am facing Legion RMD as opposed to WoD RMD.

Just my two cents. its not perfect, but they have broken the comp/counter-comp formula that has ruled WoW for the past 6 years or so, and I have to say I'm liking it. Good luck trying to beat your counter in WoD...it was just such a remote possibility, it seemed more productive to /afk out half the time. In Legion, we have the opportunity to do just that, and thats huge tbh.

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Hence why I've quit. The fact you can face something like WWDK with two backpeddling rats derping about all over their keyboard, probably drooling from the mouth and lose to it, there's no point in playing.

You can say that about any season dude! Back in WoD s1 it would have been "The fact you can face something like Jungle cleave with two backpeddling rats derping about all over their keyboard, probably drooling from the mouth and lose to it, there's no point in playing.

Frustrated people look to place the blame anywhere but on their shoulders. Seasons/classes change, you either adapt or don't, but dont blame the meta. There is always going to be something overpowered.

[Kauko]

Agree with OP. And after reading couple of posts, it just confirms that some people just repeat one and the same s*** for years... Like if they don't even play the game, some random player dominates them and his class is OP...

Fights are much more fun for me now, no more tedious games from WoD... In MoP it was not so bad, but still not as good as it is in Legion. Didn't play Cata, but played a lot in Wotlk and TBC and there was no balance. Anyone saying that it was better then is just lying, wasn't even playing then or was playing an OP class. Most of classes didn't have a chance back then...

Its much more obvious now who has the skill to play his class than it was before. And also about class balance, I don't think its as bad as people say it is. I can't check since wow pvp leaderboards don't have filters anymore, but the last time I checked it had almost every spec, even couple of tanks on it... And even arena matches on streams are more fun now. No more 3-4 comps...

[TheFirstOnes]

It's not balance thats the issue, it's the entire game as a whole that's absolutely disgusting dogshit.

The fact that now all it requires to be a 2300 player is literally:

Play any mongo melee
Run after someone and do a PvE rotation

That's literally it. No exaggeration. Even from people who are at 2700+ CR, I've heard them say there was barely any difference from 2300 to 2700.

There is nothing left in the game. The only way you can enjoy the current state of PvP is if you're shit.

That's not because the game is bad, just because someone is good, sadly.

You just need to get good at your class, and learn to play. Simple.

[Ramaloce]

Paladins:"PvP still takes a lot of skill and is perfectly balanced"

How about no, not even close. Now I play shadow (since my wow beginnings) and all my PvP comes from that perspective. PvP is even farther away from balanced than WoD or MoP, the stat templates looks amazing on paper but they shit the bed in practice losing a bunch of stats (I lose over 20% haste, 10% crit much needed stats for shadow, for a near useless amount of stam and some vers.) going from world to bg/arena It feels goddamn awful and drastically cripples me to even pretend to do damage outside of voidform (still do decent inside it, but it's still gimped to hell). It's because of shadow's template being like it is I can say this with a straight face and 100% mean it: "World PvP right now feels way more balanced than instanced PvP, yes even with the stupid million damage bull that rolls in once and awhile"