1. #1

    Have Blizzard became a begging company?

    Let me help you understand where I'm coming from here. I played from vanilla to late cata (dragon soul) then quit for years and although I never missed the game and thought I'd ever come back, at the start of legion i decided to give it another go and mostly I've been enjoying it.

    As a customer over the years I feel my relationship with blizzard has changed, in the past I was sold mostly on the consistent quality of the game and excitement of future content, blizzard didn't need to do very much to keep me subbed other than keep making great content and fixing the occasional fuck up of an idea they had, for these reasons I kept my sub going.

    Now I feel more that I'm sold on the basis of promises to fix the game and that blizzard has "learned from their mistakes" and that they won't don't it again. Wether it's long content droughts, class balancing, bad loot systems etc etc it seems that for quite some time now blizzard just can't seem to get it right and the drop in subs over the years certainly indicates that people have slowly but surely lost their faith in blizzard. Yet despite all these mistakes and promises of they have learned, they just keep seeming to get it wrong (current PTR build has many classes very worried).

    Let me give you a very basic example to portray my point:

    Blizzard: "here are propose changes, we hope you enjoy them!"
    Community: "please don't do that, we have tested it on the PTR and this is a bad idea"
    Blizzard: "yeah but we know best, these changes are happening, deal with it"
    Community: "fine we're unsubscribing"

    6 month later when blizzard looks at its quarter reports and it's shareholders asking them why their profits are down again.

    Blizzard: "please come back, we made mistakes, we've learned and listened and we won't do it again"
    Community: "ok let's give blizzard another try, maybe this time they will get it right"

    6 months later same thing happens again! It's like blizzard are riding on the egos of their former glory and need a reality check.

    A few years ago blizzard could barely put a foot wrong, everything they did just seemed to work pretty well but in recent years it's gone the other way and all of a sudden I feel like I'm being begged to keep my subscription going, does anybody else get a sense of this? Has anybody else lost respect for blizzard over the years like me? I have no faith in them anymore.
    Last edited by fragga; 2016-12-04 at 11:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Trying to keep players excited about playing a ten year old + game requires new ideas. Some of those or hits others are misses. Its hard to get it just right.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    A few years ago? You mean 8 years ago?

    Because Blizzard hasn't done things without screwing up since a long time. Imo, they have become a pretty sub standard company no matter how much popular their games are. Accessible games and pretty UI is just about why they stay relevant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also its painfully obvious that many developers in the studio have their job not because of their competence but because they know each other, networking, etc...just like how most managers/directors end up at their position in firms.

  4. #4
    Never been that way for me. As far as I remember back to TBC, Blizzard has always had me shaking my head at their decisions. I won't say I have lost faith; I just never had any in them to begin with.

    With that said though, I think they still make fine games that I enjoy playing (Overwatch, Hearthstone, D3 to an extent), even Legion. I will get called a fanboy though because I enjoy their content that so many people hate apparently.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    Never been that way for me. As far as I remember back to TBC, Blizzard has always had me shaking my head at their decisions. I won't say I have lost faith; I just never had any in them to begin with.

    With that said though, I think they still make fine games that I enjoy playing (Overwatch, Hearthstone, D3 to an extent), even Legion. I will get called a fanboy though because I enjoy their content that so many people hate apparently.
    I don't think people hate their content, I think it's more frustration being portrayed as hatred.

  6. #6
    It's true though - Blizzard shoves their decisions down players' throats as literally the best things ever only to say some months later that it didn't turn out to be so great. I mean, I get it that it's part of the decision making - you wouldn't go forward with the ideas you don't think are worthwhile but the way they are representing all their changes and philosophies is just so much over the top most of the time (which is also part of the reason why Blizzcon is such a cringefest).
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Nobody is stopping you to play Elemental casually during questing or raiding #1000 with your disabled mage friends.

  7. #7
    Warchief ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    Post-merger team is a hodgepodge of seniority that just wants to coast on the success/culture WoW had before they were "promoted".

    Holinka and Celestalon alone should've been fired long ago, WoD being the final nail. Nope, instead we still have them for Legion hammering holes in the foundation.

    Every expansion since/including Cata is basically "it's my turn to fuck up the game."
    There are no bathrooms, only Zuul.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster TheVaryag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fragga View Post
    Let me help you understand where I'm coming from here. I played from vanilla to late cata (dragon soul) then quit for years and although I never missed the game and thought I'd ever come back, at the start of legion i decided to give it another go and mostly I've been enjoying it.

    As a customer over the years I feel my relationship with blizzard has changed, in the past I was sold mostly on the consistent quality of the game and excitement of future content, blizzard didn't need to do very much to keep me subbed other than keep making great content and fixing the occasional fuck up of an idea they had, for these reasons I kept my sub going.

    Now I feel more that I'm sold on the basis of promises to fix the game and that blizzard has "learned from their mistakes" and that they won't don't it again. Wether it's long content droughts, class balancing, bad loot systems etc etc it seems that for quite some time now blizzard just can't seem to get it right and the drop in subs over the years certainly indicates that people have slowly but surely lost their faith in blizzard. Yet despite all these mistakes and promises of they have learned, they just keep seeming to get it wrong (current PTR build has many classes very worried).

    Let me give you a very basic example to portray my point:

    Blizzard: "here are propose changes, we hope you enjoy them!"
    Community: "please don't do that, we have tested it on the PTR and this is a bad idea"
    Blizzard: "yeah but we know best, these changes are happening, deal with it"
    Community: "fine we're unsubscribing"

    6 month later when blizzard looks at its quarter reports and it's shareholders asking them why their profits are down again.

    Blizzard: "please come back, we made mistakes, we've learned and listened and we won't do it again"
    Community: "ok let's give blizzard another try, maybe this time they will get it right"

    6 months later sake thing happens again! It's like blizzard are riding on the egos of their former glory and need a reality check.

    A few years ago blizzard could barely put a foot wrong, everything they did just seemed to work pretty well but in recent years it's gone the other way and all of a sudden I feel like I'm being begged to keep my subscription going, does anybody else get a sense of this? Has anybody else lost respect for blizzard over the years like me? I have no faith in them anymore.
    "6 months later sake thing happens again! It's like blizzard are riding on the egos of their former glory and need a reality check."

    Exactly that, riding on their former glory, they make mistakes left and right, not to mention the big elephant In the room, Warlords of Dreanor. As an orc fan, I was overly excited to go there, see orc culture from way back then, but minorly changed or affected due to time travel. Not to mention time travel screws everything up, so not only do we have a 2nd story of the universe, the movie makes a 3rd alternative story that would confuse newcomers Into WoW even more.

    And I hate what they did to Farahlon, all the promises they gave, I wanted to see more of the Laughing Skull, more of the Iron Horde, more on the WARLORDS... only Blackhand was given any justice to his story and epicness, we kill him In a raid as a large threatening boss, as well as Kil'rogg perhaps, but what of the rest? We have Ner'zhul vanish Into oblivion In a zone related story, we have Kargath die In an arena, which while befitting him, was a let down.

    Not to mention how ORGRIM FREAKING DOOMHAMMER DIES IN WARLORDS. And while on the Doomhammer subject, nobody still cared Thrall, a green orc from outer space is wielding a hammer forged by Blackrock orcs, and wielded by Orgrim, yet Thrall wields It now too with a frostwolf symbol on It?

    But that's kinda besides the point.

    Yes, I lost all my faith In Blizzard, and because It's appropriate for the post at hand I will mention my banning. I've been banned on 2015 April due to a hacker stealing my account for 4 months, that's the short story. Blizzard won't believe me, cancel all my tickets, Ignore all my emails, keep telling me that they don't believe It was a hacker but It was me, that the Investigation provided proof to say otherwise, bla bla bla... and while all the WoW fanboys obviously side with Blizzard, I don't. I know I'm Innocent, I've done nothing but work hard and provide for my family, and working hard makes you stop playing WoW for a bit, and I came back to play again, I realized I was banned... yey, right?

    Blizzard will fix It, no problem..... a year and a half later, still nothing. Despite 250+ tickets, 150+ emails, 50+ live web chats, 2 phone calls, nothing. They won't return my account despite me playing their game loyalty every month for 12 years, having had NO black mark on the account whatsoever, a spotless record. It's bizzare.


    So yes, that's my reason for not trusting them, among other things ofcourse, their design choices lately, their story flipping over In Legion, the Artifact Power a mistake, World Quests are basically just a new coat of paint for Daily Quests, but spread around the whole world which just makes It more annoying then a daily hub, screwing up Garrisons, all of warlords really, despite some good decisions, they've still overall screwed up more and more... It's no coincidence they went from 12 million subs since the end of Wrath, to 5.5 Mil Q3 2015, and right now assumed to be around 3-4 mil, 4 mil If you're optimistic, 5 mil If you're a fanboy and fanboy-optimistic.
    Last edited by TheVaryag; 2016-12-04 at 11:48 AM.
    Permabanned on WoW since April 14th 2015, main acc I had since vanilla gone and trashed for no good reason, 6+ years later still banned with more appeals resulting in my BATTLENET games being suspended for a month eachtime I try making TICKETS because I'm asking for help with the perma ban. Blizzard has stopped caring for their first veteran players and would rather we leave, considering the Lawsuit, can you afford to keep peps banned even for so long under questionable circumstances?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fragga View Post
    Let me help you understand where I'm coming from here. I played from vanilla to late cata (dragon soul) then quit for years and although I never missed the game and thought I'd ever come back, at the start of legion i decided to give it another go and mostly I've been enjoying it.

    As a customer over the years I feel my relationship with blizzard has changed, in the past I was sold mostly on the consistent quality of the game and excitement of future content, blizzard didn't need to do very much to keep me subbed other than keep making great content and fixing the occasional fuck up of an idea they had, for these reasons I kept my sub going.

    Now I feel more that I'm sold on the basis of promises to fix the game and that blizzard has "learned from their mistakes" and that they won't don't it again. Wether it's long content droughts, class balancing, bad loot systems etc etc it seems that for quite some time now blizzard just can't seem to get it right and the drop in subs over the years certainly indicates that people have slowly but surely lost their faith in blizzard. Yet despite all these mistakes and promises of they have learned, they just keep seeming to get it wrong (current PTR build has many classes very worried).

    Let me give you a very basic example to portray my point:

    Blizzard: "here are propose changes, we hope you enjoy them!"
    Community: "please don't do that, we have tested it on the PTR and this is a bad idea"
    Blizzard: "yeah but we know best, these changes are happening, deal with it"
    Community: "fine we're unsubscribing"

    6 month later when blizzard looks at its quarter reports and it's shareholders asking them why their profits are down again.

    Blizzard: "please come back, we made mistakes, we've learned and listened and we won't do it again"
    Community: "ok let's give blizzard another try, maybe this time they will get it right"

    6 months later same thing happens again! It's like blizzard are riding on the egos of their former glory and need a reality check.

    A few years ago blizzard could barely put a foot wrong, everything they did just seemed to work pretty well but in recent years it's gone the other way and all of a sudden I feel like I'm being begged to keep my subscription going, does anybody else get a sense of this? Has anybody else lost respect for blizzard over the years like me? I have no faith in them anymore.
    This is, what is called "Bait and switch". I've learned from long history of 3 failed xpacks in a row, that when they release new xpacks - they know, players will buy them no matter what - mostly due to extremely aggressive marketing, that tells you, that "this xpack is best xpack, ever made". That's, when they lose their sense of fear and do, what they want. But when players start to realize, that new xpack is exactly the same crap and start to quit - Blizzard start to beg them to stay and to give them another chance. And, you know, Blizzard wouldn't do it, if players wouldn't allow them to do it. Don't listen to anybody! If you personally feel, that new xpack will be crappy - then simply don't buy it! The only language, Blizzard understand - is language of your wallet.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  10. #10
    I can't relate to your kind of thinking at all. It's incredibly weird to me.

    It already starts with the whole idea of having to have any kind of "relationship" to a company (what?!), having "faith" and being "sold" on products based on this or that or whatever ... I don't get that at all. It's as if you had this really really complicated, emotionally dependant relationship to this person and you can never quite figure out how close you can allow yourself to get to them. On the one hand, you know their company comforts and inspires you, but on the other hand you also know they can suddenly have these weird phases where they grow distant or cold or just do something weird and it hurts your feelings.

    It weirds me out. Jesus Christ, it's just video games. They way you describe it, it seems to strenuous and stressful to deal with. Come to think of it, you really do feel and act as if you're having a relationship. But you need to realize that it's not only a one-way street, it's also a total figment. And in all this, it strikes me as very very weird that the thing you're thinking about is that you feel "begged" or that "Blizzard is a begging company". It's just such an off takeaway from the whole thing. I think you have bigger issues to think about regarding this whole thing than that. If I were you, I would walk away from it all.
    Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2016-12-04 at 12:33 PM.

  11. #11
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Wouldn't call it begging more than half blackmail from the playerbase if you use that example.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fragga View Post
    6 month later when blizzard looks at its quarter reports and it's shareholders asking them why their profits are down again.
    Stoped right her cause you just proof you wanna just bash Blizzard. Blizzard profits have been going up for years....

  13. #13
    "The game has moved on without me, maybe I should stop and move on with my life instead of dwelling on stupid shit."

  14. #14
    I think its an old game and no matter what they implement the game is still gonna suck.

    Their acquisition on new players is near to 0%. They only live by from people that keep coming back to the game. At some point everyone's gonna stop coming back and thats it pretty much.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    You know, some people might miss the point, that blizzard, at least with the wow, is the prisoner of it's own making.

    Some people say "They should have fired abc and xyz long ago!", cool, and hire whom in their places? Blue people ouot of nowhere? Some with experience? Maybe some without? Now firing "old employees" is like throwing the captain of a ship over the roof, and then going to the random passenger and saying "You, captain, now!"(Partially they did that with WoD and failed). Nothing in life is easy and nothing is white-black. Easiest solutions may solve problem or problems but might as well make tens of others.

    Moreover reason why they are the prisoners of their creation, is: Wow is a trademark, something set in stone long time ago, there are many variables connected to that. Some people like X, some like Y in this game, but everyone, EVERYONE knows what more or less is "World of warcraft". You can't just change that because reasons, making some even extremely original changes, because that might backfire. It's like adidas would start to make now suits ONLY. Even if they would be best, their customers would be more like "WTF?!" Trademark would lost it's effect and it has to be build from scratch. And with wow it is even worse because they HAVE to make changes to keep people interested, but changes have to be minor and major at the same time. Bringing something new and preserving what's old. And THAT is extremely difficult.

    Some ideas might adapt, some might not. Some might bring minor damage and decline while others can utterly destroy trademark. But who's to judge in the end, playerbase? Designers? Stakeholders? All of them?

    IMO today's world, is full with people who look at the very tiny bit of data and gives fast, "reasonable" solution, mostly....out of their ass, which, in theory might fix this lil lil problem, but make some tremendous damage somewhere else or in the long run. We all have limited information, so what we think might work, in the big picture would be simply dumb, keep that in mind.

    Sry for spelling, english is not my mothertongue.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    I mean Blizzard are prone to some really stupid decisions bit in general I think they make high quality, good looking fun games, which is more than can be said for a lot of games companies.

  17. #17
    It not so much begging as it is bending over to the amount of whiny babies throwing a tantrum over the smallest of changes.

    The vocal minority is to blame here aswell.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lateralsx5 View Post
    A few years ago? You mean 8 years ago?

    Because Blizzard hasn't done things without screwing up since a long time. Imo, they have become a pretty sub standard company no matter how much popular their games are. Accessible games and pretty UI is just about why they stay relevant.
    You mean 12 years ago?
    Vanilla WoW was laughed at when it was released by hardcore EQ players. It was totally-lol-casual kiddy game and design decisions made by Blizzard left their MMO laughably easy compared to REAL MMOs.

    WoW was always meant to be the crowd pleaser, I don't know what makes you think those early years were any different. Possibly because you didn't play MMOs before WoW?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    That's not a fact, it's the opinion of a vocal minority.
    If it were a vocal minority then I doubt Blizzard would be making changes on this basis

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