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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    ^ yeah ok true, on an average pack its a sustainable 700k->1.5m, bigger burst packs its 4m+, single target I can burst around 800-1m with chaos blades, it's fairly consistent.. my friend did a +7 on his ww monk and overall did 719k
    What you can burst for is irrelevant on ST. I'm not even sure its a metric worth mentioning. Check your dps at the end of a dungeon, thats what you did. Staring at skada and saying "wow bursted for X" noone cares and I don't think its a metric that makes you more useful - especially in bolstering or raging and esp not skittish.

  2. #22
    400k dps after the dungeon is over is an ok start.
    A good aoe dps class will and a maw run at around 700k.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Please just stop. You pulled numbers with no sense out of your ass and were proven wrong.


    At least we know for sure you are clueless about M+ with statements like these. Thanks for clarifying.
    I did not pull any number from my ass, that's what I experienced running multiple M+ as a tank over the course of weeks. That's called interpolating and quantifying. How is my word (which I can trust on) worse than yours? How is yours a proof? That does not make any sense. Even if you had provided a video, what you didn't, that would only prove that your scenario is in fact possible, but that would not rule out any other possible solution.

    And I'm still saying 10-12 is virtually the same, Warning: Quantifying again, read carefully, don't slip any word. The super low more damage/health is so insignificant compared to the 4/7/10 affix, that this is true. If any group can clear a 10, they can also clear a 12, there was not a single group which cleared 10 in time, willing to go up to 12, that failed. If you are already struggling on a 10 and hardly made it than and only than you may fail a 12, but I never joined a group that bad. Maybe I'm just lucky picking groups. On the other hand I don't even look what groups are there, I just pick any 9 there is and stick to them, if they are okish people.

    12 is the highest M+ lootwise right now, so this is a good point of reference. As said before you want to do one run on 12+ for maximum loot and as many 3 chest runs as possible on the highest M+ you can easily farm, that's 9 for any non casual. As there are not that vast 9 keys avaible people tend to go for ranges, 7 to 9 in this case. Sorry that this has to be explained to you, did not expect that I need to start explaining on a that low level.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    And I'm still saying 10-12 is virtually the same
    LFR is virtually the same thing as Mythic. Much hyberbolic right ? Words have meanings. And your "virtually" means shit. 12 is clearer harder than 10, any single person doing MM+ know this, you don't. There is "non virtual" differences between these levels.

    You are trying to defend your made up facts way too hard. It's look pathetic to be honest. I'm done.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    LFR is virtually the same thing as Mythic. Much hyberbolic right ? Words have meanings. And your "virtually" means shit. 12 is clearer harder than 10, any single person doing MM+ know this, you don't. There is "non virtual" differences between these levels.

    You are trying to defend your made up facts way too hard. It's look pathetic to be honest. I'm done.
    Sad that trying to educate people is pathetic to you. Hope you never meet teachers, poor unfortunate soul.

    LFR compared to Mythic Raiding
    Normal mode and Heroic Mode in between
    New mechanics.
    Damage is increased not by a fix percentage, but tuned individually
    Health is increased not by a fix percentage, but tuned individually
    20 players vs 25 players (tuned down for leavers)
    The dropped loot ilevel gap is 835 to 880

    Again M+10 compared to M+12
    M11 in between
    No new mechanics at all
    damage/health increased from +100% to +110% (approx, can't look it up, not at home), thats 5% more
    Loot gap is 860 to 865

    If you are mad, because you either got bad groups or are a bad player yourself that you can't clear 12, that's not my fault. I'm sorry for you, but not my fault. As stated before I never met a single group which was clearing M+10 that was not capable of clearing M+12 afterwards. This small boost from warmup groupplay outweights the virtually nonexistant difference in 10 to 12. Sure there is a difference, but it's neglectable. Without UI I could not tell if I'm in a +10 or +12, can you? Try to proof it. That's like getting a backpack full of chocolate, you would not even recognize if there is one piece more ore less if you are not told.

  6. #26
    How much dps you do and the difficulty of Mythic + is directly related to your characters ilvl and how many points you have in your artifact, not to mention what legendaries you have. It's silly to really set standards like "XXX is easy". I remember a time when +9 was brutal and now we can 3 chest it, I remember when Nightbane was tough and now it's an easy one shot.

    It's all relative, and you discover how you fit into this relative scale by jumping in and giving it a go. Karazhan is tough for the gear that it drops, but only the Nightbane run can be really compared with Mythic + (because it's a timed run) and I'd say it sits somewhere around the level of Mythic + 9-10 with Nightbane himself being closer to one of the tougher bosses at around +12. For sure Nightbane himself is a lot more difficult than beating the timed run, but then the timer ends when you summon him so there is no pressure.

    Don't ask for opinions, just jump in and get a feel for it, work your way up... What you will likely quickly discover is that the affixes presented will mostly determine the difficulty (greatly varying) and that some dungeons are vastly more difficult than others, or greatly favour different class setups.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-12-14 at 04:03 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    Sad that trying to educate people is pathetic to you. Hope you never meet teachers, poor unfortunate soul.

    LFR compared to Mythic Raiding
    Normal mode and Heroic Mode in between
    New mechanics.
    Damage is increased not by a fix percentage, but tuned individually
    Health is increased not by a fix percentage, but tuned individually
    20 players vs 25 players (tuned down for leavers)
    The dropped loot ilevel gap is 835 to 880

    Again M+10 compared to M+12
    M11 in between
    No new mechanics at all
    damage/health increased from +100% to +110% (approx, can't look it up, not at home), thats 5% more
    Loot gap is 860 to 865

    If you are mad, because you either got bad groups or are a bad player yourself that you can't clear 12, that's not my fault. I'm sorry for you, but not my fault. As stated before I never met a single group which was clearing M+10 that was not capable of clearing M+12 afterwards. This small boost from warmup groupplay outweights the virtually nonexistant difference in 10 to 12. Sure there is a difference, but it's neglectable. Without UI I could not tell if I'm in a +10 or +12, can you? Try to proof it. That's like getting a backpack full of chocolate, you would not even recognize if there is one piece more ore less if you are not told.
    Every level of mythic+ is about 8% more damage and health than the previous one. 10 is 200%, 11 is 216%, 12 is 233%, etc. There is a little deviation from this, but that is generally how the formula works

    16% Extra damage and health is not insignificant. Like, if they increased mythic Helya's damage and health by 16%, it wouldn't be unreasonable for the top 5 guilds to struggle to get re-kills.

    It's kind of difficult to get a direct comparison a lot of times though, because some dungeons are harder than others and it's rare to get the same dungeon twice in a row.

    As a tank, I definitely notice the difference between a 10 and a 12. In a 10, I basically have an extra 20% DR all the time compared to the damage of a 12.

  8. #28
    It depends if you're trying to get all 3 Chests. In which case you'll probably want the following:

    I've ran a lot of keystones, and from what I can tell, +2 to +6 keystones 200k-300k DPS is probably good enough.

    +7 to +9 Keystones depends on the affixes, but somewhere around 400-600k DPS is good.

    +10 and up Keystones will need a lot more damage on either Fortified or Tyrranical, so probably 600k+

  9. #29
    I'd say to worry less about the total dps numbers and just let the results speak for themselves. If you're struggling to even finish a certain + level, trying to push higher might not be the best goal for the group as a whole, who may benefit more from 2x / 3x lower mythics. Additionally, having a pretty core group that runs them often together will make life much easier, people know what to do where, learn how to play efficiently together, etc... all of which shaves time off the clock.

  10. #30
    after getting our first +12 clear in time it was interesting to see what was the contributing factor that helped us get some of the +2/3 on the higher mythic+

    dps is one thing for example:

    if you have a tyrannical affix and the mythic plus is a +10 and your skada looks somthing like this
    dps1 - 465k
    dps2 - 450k
    dps3 - 435k
    tank - 235k
    healer - 120k

    you will be killing bosses in about 2 minutes depending on what boss it is and you are on course for a +2 very easy - BUT what our group noticed is how much better our times got once we starting getting aggressive with our trash pulls and ironing out the kinks (going from 15 deaths per run to about 2)

    also it may be a common practice for most of the audience reading this - but flasks / food buffs / runes / dps pots are HUGE when progressing on your highest key as a group also it may take a few dungeon wipes to work out where the best spot are to pre pot and double pot depending on what trash pack - and boss pack you have and is there a part where you need to be 'killing time' when waiting on dps cooldowns to come back up to kill a boss or take down a certain trash pack (EOA is good dungeon for this example)

    mythic+'s is all about 'wipe time' be expected to do about 4-5 of the same instance roughly around the same mythic+ (6/7/8) before you get a hang of the instance

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