What is the current situation of the blood DKs?

[Sluvs]

Hey guys,

I'm currently leveling a Blood DK to tank heroic raids with my friends, and I would like to know how is it playing, it definetely looks fun for me so far, but how is it performing? I heard the nightmare spear can be particularly nasty for us and that we have a extremely spikey health bar. I have been researching guides, so I am getting informed. But I'm having problems in finding his strengths and weaknesses.

So, can anybody help me please?

[Rubim]

Hey guys,

I'm currently leveling a Blood DK to tank heroic raids with my friends, and I would like to know how is it playing, it definetely looks fun for me so far, but how is it performing? I heard the nightmare spear can be particularly nasty for us and that we have a extremely spikey health bar. I have been researching guides, so I am getting informed. But I'm having problems in finding his strengths and weaknesses.

So, can anybody help me please?

Do you want to do World Firsts? Gettting to the top of 1%?

If you don't, all classes are viable.

Having said that,
spikey health bar
That's true, but you need less HEALING from your healers.

nightmare spear
Blood Tap, externals.

On 7.1.5, we will have a better CD (2 Charges 40% DMG Reduction) and some talents revision.

[Raxz]

Should also mention just in case you don't already know this, Maw of the Damned active ability seems to scale with # of targets hit so you will have even more self-healing tanking adds. Volunteer for it on fights like Cenarius.

[Tehr]

Do you want to do World Firsts? Gettting to the top of 1%?

If you don't, all classes are viable.

Having said that,
spikey health bar
That's true, but you need less HEALING from your healers.

That's actually not true, BDKs require more healing than Bears/Warriors, and about the same as DHs/Pallies, and less than Monks.

That being said, so long as your healers don't immediately flash heal you every time you take damage, our health bar isn't really that spiky. Just pool RP at all times and only use DS when necessary or when you're about to cap RP and you'll be able to smooth out your damage intake by quite a bit.

nightmare spear
Blood Tap, externals.

On 7.1.5, we will have a better CD (2 Charges 40% DMG Reduction) and some talents revision.

Bears are the best for shit like this, but for the most part the spears are not that bad. The problem with Cenarius (that is being solved in 7.1.5) is that we have to use far more runes for maintaining Bone Shield with Marrowrend than we do on other fights (since Bone Shield drops on ICD due to the ticking damage), which significantly reduces our self-healing.

[Sluvs]

That's actually not true, BDKs require more healing than Bears/Warriors, and about the same as DHs/Pallies, and less than Monks.

That being said, so long as your healers don't immediately flash heal you every time you take damage, our health bar isn't really that spiky. Just pool RP at all times and only use DS when necessary or when you're about to cap RP and you'll be able to smooth out your damage intake by quite a bit.



Bears are the best for shit like this, but for the most part the spears are not that bad. The problem with Cenarius (that is being solved in 7.1.5) is that we have to use far more runes for maintaining Bone Shield with Marrowrend than we do on other fights (since Bone Shield drops on ICD due to the ticking damage), which significantly reduces our self-healing.

I see, tanks (HEHE)!
Do you thik rune tap is worth gettin over foul bulwark? What about spectral deflection?

I see the guides saying otherwise, but to me... it just seems off.

[Deleted]

Rune tap is good on fights where you need burst mitigation. So Cenarius and Odyn. Most of the DK community is pretty bad so even suggesting Spec deflect will get your head torn off. It IS good on certain fights, contrary to what most people say. It's good for Mythic Odyn for example.

[Tehr]

I see, tanks (HEHE)!
Do you thik rune tap is worth gettin over foul bulwark? What about spectral deflection?

I see the guides saying otherwise, but to me... it just seems off.

Spectral Deflection itself is very strong (32% DR as an absorb is fucking huge), but due to "bugs" (design flaws) associated with it, it is much worse than RD unless you absolutely need the additional DR to survive a hit.

The problem lies with the fact that Spectral Deflection removes the ICD from Bone Shield, so if you're routinely hit with attacks that deal 25%+ of your health (which can be common on high difficulties), you will have to dedicate a LOT more runes to the upkeep of Bone Shield than normal, which significantly detracts from your RP generation through fewer Heart Strikes, in addition to losing out on the RP generation from Rapid Decomposition. Mathematically speaking, you will require less external healing throughout the course of the fight if you take RD (except when you need the DR, as stated above) over SD just because of the extra RP generated, so barring significant changes, I think RD will still be superior to SD even in 7.1.5.

As far as M Odyn is concerned, SD is not required as you can survive every spear with just Rune Tap (assuming you're running as far as you can), and the RP generation lost compared to taking RD (assuming you're making proper use out of Heart Strike) is pretty enormous, and you will feel the lack of self-healing.

I personally take Rune Tap on M Odyn, but under ideal circumstances you can take Foul Bulwark and survive every spear (10 stacks of Bone Shield and full health should leave you at ~500k after every spear) so I wouldn't say Rune Tap is MANDATORY for M Odyn, but it's pretty strong. Definitely mandatory on Cenarius if you're not tanking Dragons in the corner, but overall Foul Bulwark will be better in any other scenario.

Get used to taking 2112132 (my preference) or 2112131 (good for AoE) and rarely changing (as of 7.1.0, things may change in 7.1.5.).

[hasslehoof]

Rune tap is good on fights where you need burst mitigation. So Cenarius and Odyn. Most of the DK community is pretty bad so even suggesting Spec deflect will get your head torn off. It IS good on certain fights, contrary to what most people say. It's good for Mythic Odyn for example.

This. You will get prolapsed on M Helya without SD currently, the amount of tank damage she does is absolutely insane, esp if your Hpala/Whatever your Tank healer is gets the orb and has to kite. It's still sketchy even with it, but you won't get two shot like you would without it.

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

I'm currently leveling a Blood DK to tank heroic raids with my friends, and I would like to know how is it playing, it definetely looks fun for me so far, but how is it performing? I heard the nightmare spear can be particularly nasty for us and that we have a extremely spikey health bar. I have been researching guides, so I am getting informed. But I'm having problems in finding his strengths and weaknesses.

So, can anybody help me please?

It's not so much of a problem in HC. Counter the spear with Blood Tap and a fresh deathstrike, you can also take the talent which will consume an extra stack of Bone Shield. If it still feels not enough for, say, the one last shot - stack with IBF.

[Sluvs]

It's not so much of a problem in HC. Counter the spear with Blood Tap and a fresh deathstrike, you can also take the talent which will consume an extra stack of Bone Shield. If it still feels not enough for, say, the one last shot - stack with IBF.

You mean rune tap? I mean, i cant see how one rune would help me in this situation... What about VB? Wouldnt it help me in this case? I dont intend to progress through mythic, Heroic raiding will be my end game. That and mythic dungeons.

[Deleted]

You mean rune tap? I mean, i cant see how one rune would help me in this situation... What about VB? Wouldnt it help me in this case? I dont intend to progress through mythic, Heroic raiding will be my end game. That and mythic dungeons.

Whichever skill it is that consumes a run to give you a short but noticeable damage reduction. VB would help too, it's always more HP to deduct from and CD is fairly low. Funny how I use it kinda more... casually - and don't perceive it as such a strict pinpoint mitigation measure as RT.

[Sluvs]

Whichever skill it is that consumes a run to give you a short but noticeable damage reduction. VB would help too, it's always more HP to deduct from and CD is fairly low. Funny how I use it kinda more... casually - and don't perceive it as such a strict pinpoint mitigation measure as RT.

Thanks! Time to see if foul bulwark is going to be missed then! Yeah i'm having problems deciding when to use VB, since the cooldown is basically 40 sec or something, I'm inclined to use it on cooldown but I'm not sure hot to proceed with that.

- - - Updated - - -

Spectral Deflection itself is very strong (32% DR as an absorb is fucking huge), but due to "bugs" (design flaws) associated with it, it is much worse than RD unless you absolutely need the additional DR to survive a hit.

The problem lies with the fact that Spectral Deflection removes the ICD from Bone Shield, so if you're routinely hit with attacks that deal 25%+ of your health (which can be common on high difficulties), you will have to dedicate a LOT more runes to the upkeep of Bone Shield than normal, which significantly detracts from your RP generation through fewer Heart Strikes, in addition to losing out on the RP generation from Rapid Decomposition. Mathematically speaking, you will require less external healing throughout the course of the fight if you take RD (except when you need the DR, as stated above) over SD just because of the extra RP generated, so barring significant changes, I think RD will still be superior to SD even in 7.1.5.

As far as M Odyn is concerned, SD is not required as you can survive every spear with just Rune Tap (assuming you're running as far as you can), and the RP generation lost compared to taking RD (assuming you're making proper use out of Heart Strike) is pretty enormous, and you will feel the lack of self-healing.

I personally take Rune Tap on M Odyn, but under ideal circumstances you can take Foul Bulwark and survive every spear (10 stacks of Bone Shield and full health should leave you at ~500k after every spear) so I wouldn't say Rune Tap is MANDATORY for M Odyn, but it's pretty strong. Definitely mandatory on Cenarius if you're not tanking Dragons in the corner, but overall Foul Bulwark will be better in any other scenario.

Get used to taking 2112132 (my preference) or 2112131 (good for AoE) and rarely changing (as of 7.1.0, things may change in 7.1.5.).

Thanks! I will keep RD then for now and see when the patch hits if it will be worth changing. Foul Bulwark basically means that i will always have 10% more health, but I will run with rune tap on raids, since it looks like it might make things smoother.

[Deleted]

If you wanna have a good time and not put too much work into artifact traits and stat optimised gear (10% bonus armor is HUGE for blood DKs), I would recommend Guardian druid or protection paladin, both are very strong in this tier. If you need more mobility go for a warrior, leap + charge is great.
Atm Blood DKs are considered some of the worst if not the worst tank out there, next patch we will probably sit around medium-high tier.
That's my humble opinion anyways.

[Deleted]

You do know the 10% armor on the artifact is just 10% increase on how much armor you have, not a 10% increase in the DR it does. You get like 2% extra DR when you get that talent.

[mmimzie]

You do know the 10% armor on the artifact is just 10% increase on how much armor you have, not a 10% increase in the DR it does. You get like 2% extra DR when you get that talent.

yeah had a substitute tank telling me how godly it made him. I decided that meant i ignore pretty much everything they said forever.

[Deleted]

Hi Sluvs just wanna give my 2 cent I'm maining a blood DK this expansion.

I think that blood dks are in a pretty decent spot, some of our abilities could use a retune and I wouldn't mind getting some of the old ultility spells back but overall it's good. We can have quite a spiky health bar when we do content we only just geared enough for, but when we outgear content I think we are some of the most consistent tanks (I know I might get my head chewen off for saying this.) but it's not uncommon that I keep my self alive on some mythic dungeon bosses without needing much heal, and just let the healer do a bit of damage.
I switch between runetap and foul boulwark quite a bit, some bosses with dots in raids makes it a bit of a hassle to keep a decent amount of bone shield charges on, so I perfer to take DR instead of a healthbar where max health jumps up and down. I also like to play around with the other talents one bosses trying to find those that fits my play and the boss I'm fighting. But most will tell you that dks have a lot of bad talents, that might be true for some but I also think that they all have a niche use somewhere.

The problem with bone shield charges dropping on spells and sometimes dots are being fixed so it should make it more useful to take .some of those talents that uses our bone shield charges in 7.1.5. as we should have an easiere time maintaining it.
Abilitywise use hearth strike when you have runes and 7+ boneshield charges, Marrowrend to keep above 5, blood boil and Death and decay on on cooldown or wait for adds to spawn to quickly grab them. Death strike when you taken a big hit or to avoid cap runic power. I also think we are the only tank with 2 taunts, but don't hold it against me.

[Llarold]

Hey guys,

I'm currently leveling a Blood DK to tank heroic raids with my friends, and I would like to know how is it playing, it definetely looks fun for me so far, but how is it performing? I heard the nightmare spear can be particularly nasty for us and that we have a extremely spikey health bar. I have been researching guides, so I am getting informed. But I'm having problems in finding his strengths and weaknesses.

So, can anybody help me please?

Blood DK's are near the bottom end of the pack in terms of damage output and general tankiness metrics. That said, Blood is definitely a fun, unique spec, and the utility of Death Grip/Gorefiend's Grasp can really change the game on some fights.

I see, tanks (HEHE)!
Do you thik rune tap is worth gettin over foul bulwark? What about spectral deflection?

I see the guides saying otherwise, but to me... it just seems off.

There are times where Rune Tap is worth taking. In most situations, Foul Bulwark is the best choice. It's about evaluating the situation and making the best choice for the encounter ahead. If there is predictable, potentially fatal burst damage (e.g., Cenarius/Odyn/Helya), then Rune Tap is good. Otherwise, the constant HP of Foul Bulwark is a better choice.

[Saybel]

I actually just switch with our guardian druid and take the drakes in p3 while he takes the boss

Probably horribly inefficient, but better then having to tank spears when you have a tank with an assload of CDs :<

[Sluvs]

I see! Thanks guys, i currently running mythics withou any issues and ToV normal, although my health is spikey, is not as much as the demon hunter. Which almost gave me heart attacks.

I running blood mirror on those bosses and rune tap too, this is giving me plenty of CDs to survive, and as soon as 7.1.5 hit i think i will take SD.

Blood DK's are near the bottom end of the pack in terms of damage output and general tankiness metrics. That said, Blood is definitely a fun, unique spec, and the utility of Death Grip/Gorefiend's Grasp can really change the game on some fights.

Since I'm not going to run any raid on mythic,just heroic ones, I think i will be fine, I rather have a fun tank to play than an optimised boring one.

Thanks for the tips, I'm currently ilvl 848 and tanking everything that I can. I still figuring things out, but i think im getting the hang of it.