NSA’s best are ‘leaving in big numbers’

[Deleted]

NSA’s best are ‘leaving in big numbers,’ insiders say

https://www.cyberscoop.com/us-dhs-cy...on-with-china/

Low morale at the National Security Agency is causing some of the agency’s most talented people to leave in favor of private sector jobs, former NSA Director Keith Alexander told a room full of journalism students, professors and cybersecurity executives Tuesday. The retired general and other insiders say a combination of economic and social factors — including negative press coverage — have played a part.



“I do hear that people are increasingly leaving in large numbers and it is a combination of things that start with [morale] and there’s now much more money on the outside,” Alexander said. “I am honestly surprised that some of these people in cyber companies make up to seven figures. That’s five times what the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff makes. Right? And these are people that are 32 years old.”

“Do the math. [The NSA] has great competition,” he said.



The rate at which these cyber-tacticians are exiting public service has increased over the last several years and has gotten considerably worse over the last 12 months, multiple former NSA officials and D.C. area-based cybersecurity employers have told CyberScoop in recent weeks.

“Morale has always been an issue at NSA, with roughly 20 percent of the workforce doing 80 percent of the actual work,” a former official told CyberScoop on the condition of anonymity. “NSA is a place where people retire in place. At some point watching this behavior even for motivated people becomes highly demotivating.”

The concern held by some in the intelligence community is that this attrition will overwhelm ongoing recruitment efforts that are now beginning to hit stride.



The challenges associated with recruiting proficient cybersecurity professionals to the agency has become a consistent talking point for sitting NSA Director Mike Rogers.

During public speaking events, Rogers has often talked about the spy agency’s need to explore creative solutions to counter what is commonly referred to as “brain drain.” One example is the creation of a “tour of duty” program, which Rogers says could help those in the private sector more easily transition into classified work and then return to industry.

“What really bothers me is that the people of NSA, these folks who take paltry government salaries to protect this nation, are made to look like they are doing something wrong,” Alexander said Tuesday. “They are doing exactly what our nation has asked them to do to protect us. They are the heroes. They are the ones that deserve our praise. Not a guy who took this race to Hong Kong and to Moscow.”

Alexander, who is now a cybersecurity executive, was speaking at an event hosted by the University of Maryland’s journalism school. He observed that many Americans have come to fear the spy agency and its employees because of a basic misunderstanding concerning the NSA’s role, responsibilities and value in the scope of national security.

“You see politicians raising their phones saying ‘they’re listening to your phone calls, they’re reading your emails’ … what we did is enrage people,” Alexander said. “We gave them that impression based on the way that it was reported across all of the media.”



In large part, Alexander blamed the press for propagating an image of the NSA that causes people to believe they are being spied on at all times by the U.S. government regardless of their independent actions.



“I think it’s a whole combination of things [for poor retention rates], but part of it is the way people see them. [An NSA employee] is not someone to stand up and say what they are doing is good for our nation. You don’t hear that. And if they’re not told that, they go home to their family and friends, and then people say ‘oh, you’re the NSA, are you listening to my phone calls?’”

But sources say that some of the factors causing low morale at the agency may be more complicated than Alexander leads on and has described in past comments including those made at Tuesday’s event. For example, the NSA’s structural reorganization plan known as NSA21 — an objective pioneered by Rogers — has become a growing point of tension between different divisions within the secretive agency, sources tell CyberScoop.

The NSA’s offensive-leaning signals intelligence unit known as Tailored Access Operations, or TAO — a storied group of the government’s best hackers — and the defensive-focused team known as the information assurance directorate, or IAD, are no longer separate entities. Rather, NSA21 has installed policies that work to combine TAO and IAD into a sort of joint workforce.

The recent shift is effectively pushing two groups — those with differing skills and even culture — to work more closely together today than at any point in the NSA’s history, said historian Matthew Aid.

[Slant]

Somehow I see him raising "NSA is listening to our phones" as a reason for low morale, but he never really refutes it. So, do they listen to the phones or not? If it's justified that people are pissed, then yes... perhaps the NSA is doing it wrong, ever thought about that? :P

[Deleted]

usa is a nation of criminals

these people are constantly crying wolf about how no one has a say in their business but yet they spy on most of the world including their own citizens

[THE Bigzoman]

What stood out to me:


“

What really bothers me is that the people of NSA, these folks who take paltry government salaries to protect this nation, are made to look like they are doing something wrong,” Alexander said Tuesday. “They are doing exactly what our nation has asked them to do to protect us.

Who asked you to compile all the data that you did? Not me.

Some serious delusions there.

[Skroe]

The existence of the NSA never should have been made public. It needs to go back into the shadows.

- - - Updated - - -

What stood out to me:


“What really bothers me is that the people of NSA, these folks who take paltry government salaries to protect this nation, are made to look like they are doing something wrong,” Alexander said Tuesday. “They are doing exactly what our nation has asked them to do to protect us.

Who asked you to compile all the data that you did? Not me.

Some serious delusions there.

Our elected officials authorized it.

They kept their jobs despite years of talk about it.

In the end, it's proven to be not a big enough deal to actually remove anybody from office. That's not an opinion. That is the simple fact of what happened. For all the outrage, it's been a big fat zero political issue.

[THE Bigzoman]

The existence of the NSA never should have been made public. It needs to go back into the shadows.

- - - Updated - - -



Our elected officials authorized it.

They kept their jobs despite years of talk about it.

In the end, it's proven to be not a big enough deal to actually remove anybody from office. That's not an opinion. That is the simple fact of what happened. For all the outrage, it's been a big fat zero political issue.

Nobody has been impeached, but the job aspect is debatable. It contributed to the the anti-establishment resent we're seeing right now.

[Deleted]

The existence of the NSA never should have been made public. It needs to go back into the shadows.

yeah fuck humans rights and privacy, dem sheeple be too dumb to understand anyways
#nothing2hide

buildind 1984 facilities should definitely not be done "into the shadows"

[Skroe]

The take away is this: the NSA needs to pay a lot better tk attact the best talent in order to compete with the private sector.

This is a recurring theme across all of government. I went to Carnegie Mellon University, one of the best science schools in the world. I have a masters in computer science. The NSA and CIA recruited aggressively at my university. At lot of people, like myself, would have been happy to serve their country.

But the wrinkle is, making $30,000-40,000 a year out of the gate when you can make two to three times that with a mere B.S. is a joke, and you'd be insane to do it. Same deal with the military actually. My best friend just got out of the Army, and he is now going to be a contractor for BAE doing a similar job, making over twice as much.

Strip away concerns about the NSA's operations proper, if you believe that government should have people who are the best in the field working for it rather than those who can't get hired elsewhere, then you should absolutely share the General's concern. What is true of the NSA in this case is true of NASA, the EPA, the State Department and much, much more.

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody has been impeached, but the job aspect is debatable. It contributed to the the anti-establishment resent we're seeing right now.

No. It's the economy. It's always been the economy. It will always be the economy. This is a country where a majority of citizens support torture to extract information. It's not exactly up on high minded idealism. I wish we were, but let's not pretend we're something we're not.

[I Push Buttons]

The take away is this: the NSA needs to pay a lot better tk attact the best talent in order to compete with the private sector.

This is a recurring theme across all of government. I went to Carnegie Mellon University, one of the best science schools in the world. I have a masters in computer science. The NSA and CIA recruited aggressively at my university. At lot of people, like myself, would have been happy to serve their country.

But the wrinkle is, making $30,000-40,000 a year out of the gate when you can make two to three times that with a mere B.S. is a joke, and you'd be insane to do it. Same deal with the military actually. My best friend just got out of the Army, and he is now going to be a contractor for BAE doing a similar job, making over twice as much.

Strip away concerns about the NSA's operations proper, if you believe that government should have people who are the best in the field working for it rather than those who can't get hired elsewhere, then you should absolutely share the General's concern. What is true of the NSA in this case is true of NASA, the EPA, the State Department and much, much more.

- - - Updated - - -



No. It's the economy. It's always been the economy. It will always be the economy. This is a country where a majority of citizens support torture to extract information. It's not exactly up on high minded idealism. I wish we were, but let's not pretend we're something we're not.

While I would like the best and brightest to work for the government, I would prefer they did so out of a sense of civic duty and public service than for a fat check. People who are there in spite of poor pay, rather than people who are only there because of good pay.

And I am a tax and spend Democrat who is all for high taxes and giant government. If people's self-interest is so much that they are willing to leave their own home vulnerable to attack so they can make more money, then so be it, I guess we're fucked. The government shouldn't be forced to pay people beyond 99th percentile salaries to function properly.

[Deleted]

Governments need to up the payment or they will never have the best of the best ever again.

Screw the other reasons given though. With a higher salary hardly any of them would care about the ethical part.

[Skroe]

While I would like the best and brightest to work for the government, I would prefer they did so out of a sense of civic duty and public service than for a fat check. People who are there in spite of poor pay, rather than people who are only there because of good pay.

And I am a tax and spend Democrat who is all for high taxes and giant government. If people's self-interest is so much that they are willing to leave their own home vulnerable to attack so they can make more money, then so be it, I guess we're fucked. The government shouldn't be forced to pay people beyond 99th percentile salaries to function properly.

There is no reason that both be true. Patriotic individuals should be well compensated. They are after all, competitively recruited in a marketplace. That is how the United States simply is.

[Deleted]

Yeah if they cannot compete with salaries, then they should contract national security to some private company which has outsourcing centers in China.

[Daerio]

Somehow I see him raising "NSA is listening to our phones" as a reason for low morale, but he never really refutes it. So, do they listen to the phones or not? If it's justified that people are pissed, then yes... perhaps the NSA is doing it wrong, ever thought about that? :P

Yeah, it seems like the simple solution is stop spying on Americans without a warrant. Morale goes up, recruitment goes up, maybe the NSA actually manages to stop a terrorist plot one day.

Or they just whine that their plan sucks and isn't working out in the hopes that America rallies around the organization violating our most fundamental rights? How could anyone in that organization consider themselves a patriot while disgracing themselves and the Constitution?

Pay scale isn't the problem, the general says it right in the article.

[Draco-Onis]

Yeah, it seems like the simple solution is stop spying on Americans without a warrant. Morale goes up, recruitment goes up, maybe the NSA actually manages to stop a terrorist plot one day.

Or they just whine that their plan sucks and isn't working out in the hopes that America rallies around the organization violating our most fundamental rights? How could anyone in that organization consider themselves a patriot while disgracing themselves and the Constitution?

Pay scale isn't the problem, the general says it right in the article.

Your elected officials congress, the president are all for this including the incoming administration. We the American people said we were okay with this, the topic of spying on Americans did not even get mentioned during the election the majority of people don't care.

[Daerio]

Your elected officials congress, the president are all for this including the incoming administration. We the American people said we were okay with this, the topic of spying on Americans did not even get mentioned during the election the majority of people don't care.

Source?

10char

[Draco-Onis]

Source?

10char

Source for what? the patriot act? the fact that it was never mentioned during the debates? the fact that zero officials lost their elected seat because of it?

[PosPosPos]

Governments need to up the payment or they will never have the best of the best ever again.

Screw the other reasons given though. With a higher salary hardly any of them would care about the ethical part.

It's hard to afford the salary required to woo talent back when the right wing is constantly bitching about having to pay taxes at all.

In their little reality marble, one can have their cake, snatch the cakes of others, and still be able to eat them without any consequences whatsoever.

[Daerio]

Source for what? the patriot act? the fact that it was never mentioned during the debates? the fact that zero officials lost their elected seat because of it?

The fact that Americans don't care about being spied on by their government just because it wasn't an election issue this cycle?

Or do you think that's unrelated to the topic we're discussing, which is low morale in the NSA? Well, if you do, then you're wrong.

[Draco-Onis]

The fact that Americans don't care about being spied on by their government just because it wasn't an election issue this cycle?

Or do you think that's unrelated to the topic we're discussing, which is low morale in the NSA? Well, if you do, then you're wrong.

If it is not important enough to affect their votes then they don't care enough about it, that's how our system works.

[Daerio]

If it is not important enough to affect their votes then they don't care enough about it, that's how our system works.

It's important enough for the NSA to come begging for more money to retain their employees in the face of low morale.