Is Survival worth maining?

[WhippWhapp]

I was maining SV, 27 points into the weapon.

Started to level the BM artifact after seeing some rank 1 BM vids on YouTube, and as much as I love SV- BM walks all over it in PvE. SV is harshly punished DPS-wise if you miss your window due to boss mechanics, stuns, etc.

I am ilevel 866, and my BM hunter can pull 300k single target reliably, I never see that when I'm playing SV.

I'm not an arena master by any means, ( just started ranked a few weeks ago), but I don't find BM to be that far behind SV in PvP. Brangs frenzy stack BM build has awesome burst!

[Deleted]

Bottom line is that it very-much depends on 7.1.5 as to where SV stands. It's clear from the changes appearing on the PTR notes that everything could change then.

One thing most who play SV seem to agree on is that it is fun to play.

One of it's main flaws is that it is scaling poorly due to the way secondary stats basically don't affect it's performance much.

What I mean by that last statement is that our dps is not dependent on getting crits for procs like a Fire Mage or Fury Warrior is. Nor does haste scale our DoTs like it does for the caster classes. Nor does our Mastery directly add to our dps, it just makes an ability more likely to be available. Versatility is our best stat because all the others are worse than it. Versatility does not add more to a SV hunter than it does to any other class so therefore we fall behind as gear levels (and thus accrued secondary stats) increase.

To my mind, for SV to have a good long-term future, at least one of our secondary stats needs to change how it works. Mastery would be the obvious change, leaving it how it is but also adding a non-RNG static aspect to it, perhaps increasing DoT damage.

[DeicideUH]

Bottom line is that it very-much depends on 7.1.5 as to where SV stands. It's clear from the changes appearing on the PTR notes that everything could change then.

One thing most who play SV seem to agree on is that it is fun to play.

One of it's main flaws is that it is scaling poorly due to the way secondary stats basically don't affect it's performance much.

What I mean by that last statement is that our dps is not dependent on getting crits for procs like a Fire Mage or Fury Warrior is. Nor does haste scale our DoTs like it does for the caster classes. Nor does our Mastery directly add to our dps, it just makes an ability more likely to be available. Versatility is our best stat because all the others are worse than it. Versatility does not add more to a SV hunter than it does to any other class so therefore we fall behind as gear levels (and thus accrued secondary stats) increase.

To my mind, for SV to have a good long-term future, at least one of our secondary stats needs to change how it works. Mastery would be the obvious change, leaving it how it is but also adding a non-RNG static aspect to it, perhaps increasing DoT damage.

Mastery should be changed, IMO.

Make the chance to proc Mongoose Bites static (perhaps modified by talents), something around 10%, and then make Mastery increase damage of Flanking Strike, Mongoose Bite and Fury of the Eagle.

Also, why can't the DoT from harpoon critically hit? They should fix that.

[MajorTom]

Looking over today's notes it looks like they're buffing survival by a flat 7% for it's rotation abilities. Will it be enough though?

[WhippWhapp]

The concept of scaling foreign to you, is it not? Only because you are 830 and pull 175k dps doesn't mean that the dps numbers improve in a straight line upwards with higher ilvl. If it were, nobody would complain.

Also, pretty pretentious to believe that the people who cleared mythic emerald nightmare simply don't know how to play their spec thus score so low on the dps charts.

An i830 telling ppl who've cleared EN mythic to do the math, lulz.

It scales crappy because secondary stats don't do anything really for SV.

[Poeseidon]

Main survival hunter here. Ilvl 888 and I cleared 7/7 mythic emerald nightmare. (Yeah, i am one of the 34 guys who killed mythic xavius)

It's certainly possible to main. I don't have the BiS bracers and when I try hard, I may not find myself at the very bottom of the dps charts. I never score high compared to my guild mates though.

- - - Updated - - -



i forgot to mention that on the lower ends normal or lfr, you'll have a rather easy time with the spec. It scales well there. Going into hc shouldn't be to much of a problem either if you got the proper stats (not to much mastery, more haste and versatility) and a somewhat decent understanding of the rotation. So if you plan to play on that level, the problems survival hunter has on the higher end of things shouldn't concern you.

Mythic+ wise it's rough. Theoretically speaking, there is no reason why anyone would want you in a mythic+ dungeon. Just none. No stuns, just slows + snares which every other spec has. Even the dps ain't otherworldly to compensate for that. Fortunately for us, nobody plays the spec. Nobody knows what the spec is capable of and everyone assumes that you are ranged as hunter to begin with when you queue for a group. So you might just find your way into mythic+ 12 dungeons like I do before they realize that you are a survival hunter and at that point, you can not be kicked anyway else they'd deplete the keystone.

This guy<3

[Viking]

Looking over today's notes it looks like they're buffing survival by a flat 7% for it's rotation abilities. Will it be enough though?

no. /10char

[MajorTom]

Looking over today's notes it looks like they're buffing survival by a flat 7% for it's rotation abilities. Will it be enough though?

It looks like it was a 25% in a previous build and they reverted it back down to 7%. Wonder how many survival hunters are on the PTR testing this for them to see they needed to bring it back down THAT much haha

[Rabbit]

I miss my old surv so much, it still hurts me everytime I switch to surv from time to time.

[Keltas]

Looking over today's notes it looks like they're buffing survival by a flat 7% for it's rotation abilities. Will it be enough though?

We also lost 5% crit and the ability to gain MB charges off pet abilities (this isn't noted anywhere, but I've seen multiple people confirm it).

Some of our better talents got dumpstered as well, such as improved traps. Although caltrops is amazing now, so that probably isn't a dps loss. Same with snake hunter. It got nerfed again for some reason, but murder of crows is good enough that it probably doesn't matter.


The 4pc and the tier stat changes will probably get survival to lower middle of the pack in dps. It's fun and I'd rather play it myself, but there is absolutely no justification for a mediocre melee that has no utility, niche dps situation to shine in, and really no strengths to speak of. No huge burst, no amazing burst aoe, no high sustained damage, horrible cleave, and ironically no survivability.

[Lairiel]

I am ilevel 866, and my BM hunter can pull 300k single target reliably, I never see that when I'm playing SV.

You're doing something wrong then.

"Is Survival Worth Maining?" Frankly, I can't answer that. No one can. We'd need more information. You mention interest in raiding, and wanting to make a "Smart" choice. In which case, Id say just go with whoever is #2 spot on the average meters right now. #1 will have a nerf incoming.

If you want to have fun? And want to be viable, but probably not optimal, have no issues in Heroic raids but possibly have trouble getting into Mythic? Survival is in fine shape. Really it is. You can be very competitive with other specs on most (but not all) fights. Some *cough Ursoc*

Of the 3 hunter specs it has the highest single target sustained damage, as well as Very respectable AOE cleave Burst (but not sustained aoe, and if targets aren't stacked for cleaving essentially No aoe at all). It can struggle when there is a lot of high mobility target switching when targets aren't dying. (if they ARE dying, like say the adds in p2 Xavius, it's actually pretty great). It also means relearning and retraining a LOT of reflexes, if you are used to playing another hunter spec. It has, strangely enough, rather sub par Survival tools.

I don't play it because I think I'll top the meters. Though I do beat out the other hunters from time to time, there's an Enhancement shammy in my guild that I just can't touch >_< Of course, neither can anyone else... I play it because it's WAY more fun for me than Beast or Marks. I've tried. Beast feels boring as hell. And marks feels awkward. Extremely awkward. I'm hoping that the next patch will shake things up a bit, but right now I'm pretty committed to Survival. I'm sitting at 34 points in at the moment.

You ask about what will be in the Nighthold? I don't know. I do know that Survival mastery has a baked in soft cap which is rapidly approaching. You can only make use of so many charges of mongoose. The more haste you have, the more you can use, but that tends to make Haste better. Not mastery =P Since haste also increases your extra procs through base mastery. That soft cap puts us at a solid disadvantage to the other hunter specs, whos mastery can scale up indefinitely.

The 4 piece bonus will make hitting a 6 stack more frequently more sought after. Not necessarily staying at it, but hitting it, dropping, and hitting it again, repeatedly. Which again buffs haste. But it's already been nerfed, since its multiplicative stacking made a bursty space even more bursty. For some reference, if the new legendaries went in along with the original 4 piece, Butchery could have hit in excess of 5 mil+, leading to situations where a 3 second burst would out damage the rest of a several minute fight =P

So. TLDR? No one really knows. Play what's fun. Cross your fingers. Nearly everything is viable for heroic raids at least. And if you want to prep for mythic don't bother asking. It's very much about what's best at the time. You're better off keeping several characters capped and viable.

[Gurg]

Its not just scaling thats the issue. Since were quite reliable in "LFR/Normal" and even "Heroic" content with the stat cut we might be a bit more valuable at the start of .5

But still.. Its not just our stats that are the problem, even so they are part of the problem, our rotation is main problem and its something not being done anything about it so far.

It simply has too much buttons to press.
With high enough haste you will perform well, but again, what ever you do every other melee can do better with much less of a hustle. And thats it.

[Runefeather]

Yes it is worth maining. It's a fun spec, it doesn't matter that it's melee because if you were looking at rogue or warrior the fact they are melee wouldn't even come into it. You might find it a bit challenging in raids at first if you are not used to playing melee as it can be harder some times to keep raid awareness up. Just have fun and see how it goes, worst comes to worse, if you want to switch back to a ranged spec later you will have high ak and can try out bm or mm.

[Raqubor]

No it's not.
The two ranged specs do everything better.

[Yhcti]

I'm actually looking at Survival as my main for PvP and alt for PvE, my only other option is my Outlaw Rogue. More focused on PvP than PvE however. It seems Survival is in a good spot for PvP? Also for things like LFR and Normal and casual Mythics/Mythic+ I'm guessing Survival is also fine? Mine is only ilvl 842 but I do feel very far behind when I do random heroics... I've yet to brave a mythic or even start PvP yet also...

[Deleted]

No it's not.
The two ranged specs do everything better.

No, they don't. They failed at fun aspect totally. 2 buttons emptiness.
For top hardcore raiding where only numbers matter yes, survival cannot compete there now.
If your guild is not in rush survival will do the work. Good legendaries help a lot.

In PvP Survival is godlike in comparison to MM/BM at the moment + ton of fun.
Might be one of the top atm.

+ patch 7.1.5 should be DPS increase overall

[Dahkeus]

No it's not.
The two ranged specs do everything better.

Only if you ignore PvP. =P

[Riistov]

For PvP? Yes.

For PvE? No.

[Kantoro]

Quite honestly, I would not recommend maining a hunter right now. They are in the worst place they have been in since...ever.

[Hiricine]

Its only worth maining if it brings more utility or something special than a majority of raid specs, or at least a specific fight mechanic. Right now the Survival rotation is such a cluster of random and dots, and there really aren't any fights that call for tar trap or the like that its not even worth switching over on a single fight.