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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I like the previous legendary systems where you would do a lot of questing along the main storyline to get your 1 legendary.
    Yes. Time-gated legendaries usually have some kind of a storyline, in addition to mindless grinds. Now, if they would reduce the mindless grind, and instead add more quest steps, probably something like the green fire questline for warlocks in MoP, then this would be a great way to get a legendary.

    Getting a legendary out of an emissary chest is not epic at all. Its only 1 step away from a random boar dropping a legendary because you are lucky. How can people like that? Glaives of Azzinoth dropped only from the end boss of the hardest raid in TBC, and same goes for Thori'dal after Sunwell was implemented. Tarecgosa and Fangs of the Father had very cool storylines and special approaches to bossfights. Cloak and ring were for everybody to get, even in LFR, but to finish the legendary, it took almost the whole expansion, so the journey was epic because it took so much time to finish and got you into many different locations.

    And now we not only don't know when we get our legendaries, we can get stuck with the worst possible choices. This is masochistic.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    I find the double think here really bizarre.

    So apparently a guild working to get 3-6 members of their raid a legendary (Shadowmourne, Fangs of the Father, whatever) is 'special snowflake' but everyone whining so much that they need to first have a welfare legendary in the form of capes / rings during mop and wod, isn't, nor is getting legendaries from world quests and normal dungeon bosses.

    Got it

    Also, i went through MC, where i didn't get a legendary. It was still sick because I loved having one in the raid. I went through BWL where the same applied. BT, Ulduar, and finally in ICC i get my first legendary. I lived both worlds, and i can tell you it was much better.

    Your mindset of "well, i didn't get it, so it sucks" is one that screams "i have never raided in a guild".

    There are no special snowflakes in a guild, sorry to break your bubble. If there are, that guild dies, fast.
    OK, so what's the big deal: Why aren't you happy that someone else in your raid group has a BIS legendary? The only problem with legendaries at the moment is envy.

    Edit: And yes, I have raided MC to WOTLK (quit before ICC) and then started again during MoP. I have/had no issues with others getting the legendary, I just think it's better for the game as a whole that they are not as exclusive as they have been back in the days.

  3. #43
    Tbh they probably should've put them in a tier between legendary and epic.

    But I like the system. Add some different unique effects and everyone doesnt end up with the exact same build. Could be balanced a lot better still

  4. #44
    I prefer neither. I sat out the "legendary" in WoD entirely and am sitting out Legion completely.

    Whether time-gated RNG drop grind or RNG instant grind, these systems are entirely transparent attempts at dragging out playtime and eventually they will burn out a great many players who would have happily kept playing with a capped currency reward system.

  5. #45
    WoD rings were boring but fair. Legion legs are fun but completely unfair.

  6. #46
    Personally i prefer any system that is not based on two RNG walls, including having no system at all (so no legendary items).

    You can have a system that randomly rewards players with a token so they can choose their legendary.
    You can have a system that rewards players with currency that then they spend on something that grants a random legendary.
    What you cannot have is a system that randomly rewards players with a random legendary.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  7. #47
    The time gated legendary system was fine for the legendaries that it was giving away.
    Basically everyone who played the game seriously was getting the legendary sooner or later.

    The legendary could be strong, since on higher levels of play everyone had it and it was not giving anyone an unfair advantage.

    There were no options to not get the legendary or get not the one you need.

    Basically in all the expansions the legendary systems worked and they never were fucked up as much as they are now.

    Vanilla - both thunderfury and sulfuras required a long and painful random grind, required your whole guild to help you in the process, and the difference between them and other options was not that huge, and even when it was - still you most likely had 1 per guild.
    Atiesh - extremely rare, long grind, by the time you got all the splinters and pieces of the staff - you already finished all the content and it was irrelevant.
    The mount while cool and rare had no influence on your character whatsoever.

    TBC
    Warglaives - the drop chance was not good, it dropped from the end boss of the tier that not many people got to kill, and usually again in your whole guild 1-2 people were able to get both the glaives and they were assigned by the guild.
    Thoridal - dropped from the last boss of SWP, and if you killed him without the legendary - you were not to worry about competing with someone who has it.

    WoTLK
    Val'anyr - it was good, but the farm for it was long, the drop rates for shards were not so good, they were still assigned by guilds to some people, and since guilds stopped farming Ulduar at some point - still not so many people got them. However this was, probably, the most easily obtainable legendary in history of WoW (obtainable while still relevant). Its ilvl though was not that high, and though the proc was nice - you were not that much better than other ppl with, lets say, HC IC loot.
    Shadowmourne - it was very good, the farm was long and tedious, during the relevance of the content still 1-2 ppl in your guild had it not more.

    Cata
    Caster staff and rogue daggers, both from a long quest grind, both only for some classes.

    Pandaria/wod
    The back and the ring which were obtainable by everyone through a long quest. Gave a huge boost, but it wasn't that big of a deal since everyone and their grandma had one, since they were time gated.


    The problem of current legendaries is not the fact that they are time gated. It is that some of them have the impact of a time gated legendary being a must have for some of the classes, but being actually a random drop.

    If all the legendaries were like the Prydaz, or the movement speed boots, or within 1-2% dps there would've been no problem with the randomness.
    You get not the one you want - ok, pity but not a problem.

    But there are legendaries that give a huge advantage. And making those random, while still widely available is a problem.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzael View Post
    My preference is skill gated legendaries.
    ^
    This.

    They should have tied Legendaries to different types of content and difficulty combined with more or less challenging solo scenarios.

    You want the currently best Legendary?
    Sure, do this quest chain, clear all Dungeons on M+ level 10, kill Mythic Xavius, collect X amount of gold/materials and complete a brutally challenging scenario.

    Other Legendaries should've been tied to other content, e.g. utility legendaries for solo content, weaker throughput legendaries for easier group/raid content, PvP-only legendaries for Random/Rated BG/Arena and so on...

    That way we would have a clear goal and could see actual progress. More legendaries would come with each big content patch with the older ones being upgradeable to stay relevant. Also, casual players would have a chance to get the best legendaries from previous patch because challenges would be easier due to outgearing content after some time.


    BTW:
    IMO Legendaries would have been better if we 'engraved' their effects into our artifacts instead of being actual gear (similar to D3 Cube).
    Last edited by chooi; 2016-12-15 at 05:29 PM.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Yes. Time-gated legendaries usually have some kind of a storyline, in addition to mindless grinds. Now, if they would reduce the mindless grind, and instead add more quest steps, probably something like the green fire questline for warlocks in MoP, then this would be a great way to get a legendary.

    Getting a legendary out of an emissary chest is not epic at all. Its only 1 step away from a random boar dropping a legendary because you are lucky. How can people like that? Glaives of Azzinoth dropped only from the end boss of the hardest raid in TBC, and same goes for Thori'dal after Sunwell was implemented. Tarecgosa and Fangs of the Father had very cool storylines and special approaches to bossfights. Cloak and ring were for everybody to get, even in LFR, but to finish the legendary, it took almost the whole expansion, so the journey was epic because it took so much time to finish and got you into many different locations.

    And now we not only don't know when we get our legendaries, we can get stuck with the worst possible choices. This is masochistic.
    Not only that, but it creates a situation of haves and have-nots. Any chance at a feeling of epicness is robbed by the simple fact that it's a pull of a slot machine. The legendary isn't tied to any lore or explanation, it just appears in your inventory while doing mundane, random tasks.

    Not only that, but it's completely against the theme of WoW gameplay, which has almost always been "Put in the time and work towards progressing your character".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    BTW:
    IMO Legendaries would have been better if we 'engraved' their effects into our artifacts instead of being actual gear (similar to D3 Cube).
    100% agreed. Legendaries should have been something that modified/replaced existing talents or artifact traits. They should have been a choice to use it rather than a straight upgrade based on a completely random drop chance.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    I think a time gated system ala MoP is quite poor compared to Legion, I (most of the time) get more legendaries for spending more time in the game than other people who spend less time. When a guildie is whining about only having 2 legendaries and I ask him how many M+ he's done, I find it quite fun how someone can expect to get something for doing nothing at all. I've run around 350 m+ while clearing HC ToV/HC EN + M EN each week, and I have 3 legendaries, and I think I've earned them. Is there RNG, yes. Has there always been RNG, yes. The system can be improved, but I personally find it "okay"

  11. #51
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    No, people just hate getting the one legendary that has zero function in most raid encounters. Sephuz needs to be entirely reworked or removed, because it is garbage.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Glarolas View Post
    Title, How is collecting some shard/crystal from raids or quests and everyone who stayed caught up gets it the same week any better? It's actually far worse then random system imo.
    Correct. /thread

    The worst thing about humanity is that most people forget shit so fast. Blizzard chose this system, because the previous one was hated and bad. At least now you still get something out of doing WQs and lower-tier dungeons and you are never (well I never saw anyone requiring that in legion) required to have a legendary for any kind of content.

    Except for the story behind the MoP/WoD legendaries nothing about them was good. They were tedious to get, but also mandatory at the same time.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Time gated legendaries where never bad, people whining about everything was bad.
    Old system:
    You have to raid for X hours to get your legendary? Yes, but then you had a legendary, it was always good and you never ever had to do shit again. Also all of the "time gating" revolves around doing PvE Raids, and legendaries are only usefull por PvE raids/mazs; so you only need to do whatever you where doing to get your legendary (so fucking hard) You subbed later? You had cathcups, i had one legendary ring on WoD on less than two month thanks to the stupid ships catchup that basically skipped HM and BRF.
    New system:
    You did every shit possible 24/7? Too bad! Sephuz lol xDDDXdxdxDDDXXDDDXDdxd. Second legendary? Prydaz hahaAHAHAaxdxDDDXDddXd. Then you get your third one and.. OMG! shit legendary shared with your armor type. Then you get your fourth.... other shit legendary. And then after 3 fucking months of farming like a fucking beast you are in a dead end where you depend on total RNG to get your fifth legendary, so you better delete the character and start from scratch over again because you will NEVER have your fifth legendary because of the luck-protection cap.
    This or you are a casual that is doing a WQ and suddenly your BiS legendary appears and gives you 50k DPS. Best system ever.
    PS: Don't get me wrong, i had 2 BiS legendaries after getting my fifth legendary (almost 1k m+ done) but this system is just worst than Diablo legendary farming.
    Last edited by mmocc0105de390; 2016-12-15 at 08:52 PM.

  14. #54
    The main issue with legion legendaries is that it changes how we play our specs.

    I wouldn't mind the RNG so much if the legendaries were all straight utility like additional healing effects (Shalladrasil) or shielding (Phyra), but many of the legendaries for specs are tied to "fluidity". BM and SV Hunters (I've also heard that Unholy is highly dependent on thier bracers too) for example both have very fluid builds IF they receive Call of the Wild bracers.

    I think a lot of the frustration with the legendary system is highly tied to how classes are preforming with said legendaries. Past legendaries, the ones from MoP and WoD, were role specific and were not mandatory to any spec or a spec fluidity. Example, when I got my cape in MoP and my ring in WoD (no Hunter legendaries in Wrath or Cata sadly), the game play of my class didn't change. All I got was a very generous DPS boost.

    It is a poor design choice to tie so much spec reliance on a massively cruel RNG system.

  15. #55
    People have been whiny btiches since vanilla.
    No matter the system, there will be a way to complain. It's never ending.

    Are we still forgetting the tears about arcane mages being able to make more of the legendary ring than any other class or are we gonna just pretend that didnt happen?
    Remember how healers were qqing that cape proc was random and would often get wasted? lol.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Glarolas View Post
    Title, How is collecting some shard/crystal from raids or quests and everyone who stayed caught up gets it the same week any better? It's actually far worse then random system imo.
    Because it keeps everyone on equal footing and doesn't give some people 10% extra damage over their peers because they got lucky with the legendaries they got.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesque View Post
    I think a time gated system ala MoP is quite poor compared to Legion, I (most of the time) get more legendaries for spending more time in the game than other people who spend less time. When a guildie is whining about only having 2 legendaries and I ask him how many M+ he's done, I find it quite fun how someone can expect to get something for doing nothing at all. I've run around 350 m+ while clearing HC ToV/HC EN + M EN each week, and I have 3 legendaries, and I think I've earned them. Is there RNG, yes. Has there always been RNG, yes. The system can be improved, but I personally find it "okay"
    The problem is not the amount of legendaries/effort ratio. It's the fact that some asswipe who barely does anything in the game as you mention gets his 2 BIS legendaries in his first 2 drops while the other guy that farms hundreds of M+ ends up with 4 shit legendaries. This problem is especially bad for pure DPS classes who have to deal with spec specific legendaries when every patch can instantly change the status quo of their specs.

  17. #57
    I prefer neither. It's not one or the other, there are more options

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzael View Post
    My preference is skill gated legendaries.
    ^

    The felfire questline or some of the solo dungeons from the former legendaries (espacially those from cataclysm) should be the standard.

  19. #59
    What makes me laugh is that the worst case scenarios being offered AGAINST deterministic loot are so weak, and aren't as bad as what's currently happening in the game by a long shot. "Oh, it'll make some legendaries mandatory." They already are. "Oh, everyone will just want the best ones." They already do. Just there's no means for people who are unlucky enough not to have them already to get them regardless of how much time and effort they pour into the game. It's a lottery and the only way you can improve your odds is buying more tickets. But you still might NEVER win.

    Deterministic loot is just better. Period.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Glarolas View Post
    Title, How is collecting some shard/crystal from raids or quests and everyone who stayed caught up gets it the same week any better? It's actually far worse then random system imo.
    No thanks. Rng system is fine as long as all the legendaries are really close to each other dps/hps wise. Lets say utility dps legendaries being 10k behind is fine. But now most cases even equipping utility shit causes dps loss.

    Also another big problem with this system is retarded softcap. To get my fifth legendary i need to still stack BLP for weeks and i've been doing it for 3-4 weeks now with +300 mythic+ done and sixt will take double of that time so system is fuckin stupid

    There needs to be fair rng for everyone and not just that players get instantly their 2 first legendaries.

    Lets say if players got legendary every 50 mythic+ that would be fine and later on it could be reduced to match casuals workload but for time being that is fucked up too

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