Best rogue mythic+/dungeon spec?

[Kongnic11]

Which spec is the best for mythic+? And generally leveling ?

[Tengokuq]

Outlaw is a great spec to start of with, but once you hit this sweet ilvl 870+ you switch for Assassination. I am a 876 ilvl Assassination 35 trait point with Sephuz ring and the legendary back and I am doing roughly 500-800k(Sometimes up to 1 mil depends on procs) on AoE targets, 3-4 mostly, if more; I deal more. On single target, I do 400-500k sometimes up to 650k if the boss dies fast. Assassination is great on M+ 9 and above, whereas Outlaw outshines Assassination in low m+ by far.

[Deleted]

Outlaw is a great spec to start of with, but once you hit this sweet ilvl 870+ you switch for Assassination. I am a 876 ilvl Assassination 35 trait point with Sephuz ring and the legendary back and I am doing roughly 500-800k(Sometimes up to 1 mil depends on procs) on AoE targets, 3-4 mostly, if more; I deal more. On single target, I do 400-500k sometimes up to 650k if the boss dies fast. Assassination is great on M+ 9 and above, whereas Outlaw outshines Assassination in low m+ by far.

outlaw stilll outperforms assa by far.

[Deleted]

outlaw stilll outperforms assa by far.

Yup, in both AoE sustain and ST Burst.

Outlaw is a great spec to start of with, but once you hit this sweet ilvl 870+ you switch for Assassination. I am a 876 ilvl Assassination 35 trait point with Sephuz ring and the legendary back and I am doing roughly 500-800k(Sometimes up to 1 mil depends on procs) on AoE targets, 3-4 mostly, if more; I deal more. On single target, I do 400-500k sometimes up to 650k if the boss dies fast. Assassination is great on M+ 9 and above, whereas Outlaw outshines Assassination in low m+ by far.

Those numbers are ridiculously low, i dont know your gear progression, but every outlaw 875+ with atleast 1 dmg Legendary laughs at those numbers.

[Dobrogii]

On high m+ assasination is the best choice if u want a good clear.lower mythics are in favor of outlaw,but when u high geared doesnt rly matter cuz everything dies in seconds

[Deleted]

On high m+ assasination is the best choice if u want a good clear.lower mythics are in favor of outlaw,but when u high geared doesnt rly matter cuz everything dies in seconds

can you now tell me why assa is better in higher m+? because i can't see a point at all.

[Leetbeartank]

Depends on your group. If you have good cleave, but not great ST, go assassination. If you have great single target already, go outlaw. Of course, good legendaries for one spec make this entire debate pointless because it's more dependent on those than the spec at that point. Also you need to take into account the affixes... Especially the level 10 affix.

That being said, and despite the fact that Blizzard fucked this expansion up with legendaries... If you don't have any, or you have shitty Sephuz's and/or Prydaz, outlaw is the superior dungeon spec. You will do the most overall damage as outlaw... Even at higher mythic plus dungeons.

[TwentyTwelve]

can you now tell me why assa is better in higher m+? because i can't see a point at all.

Heres a good reason; Sin isn't RNG based like Outlaw for Single target.

Outlaw is great when u have ur CDs - but after u sink to bottom unless you have some good rng with buffs, which, most of the time you wont, do you really want to play roulette everytime u do mythic + on whether or not u get 1 or 3 chests?

Same with AoE, Sin has higher AoE output if the targets have the health to live longer than 20 seconds. Outlaw has great aoe (with cooldowns, see a pattern?) and okay aoe without CDs but it's only going to beat Sin if they die extremely fast (low m+).

Sin has 400k + ST easily, with bad rng, with good rng it's much much more, heck i'm 866 ilvl bursting upto a million ST with Sin. without procs i burst 600kish but i ALWAYS end around 400k.

AoE 866 sin, doing anywhere from 400k-1m+.

[Deleted]

Heres a good reason; Sin isn't RNG based like Outlaw for Single target.

Outlaw is great when u have ur CDs - but after u sink to bottom unless you have some good rng with buffs, which, most of the time you wont, do you really want to play roulette everytime u do mythic + on whether or not u get 1 or 3 chests?

Same with AoE, Sin has higher AoE output if the targets have the health to live longer than 20 seconds. Outlaw has great aoe (with cooldowns, see a pattern?) and okay aoe without CDs but it's only going to beat Sin if they die extremely fast (low m+).

Sin has 400k + ST easily, with bad rng, with good rng it's much much more, heck i'm 866 ilvl bursting upto a million ST with Sin. without procs i burst 600kish but i ALWAYS end around 400k.

AoE 866 sin, doing anywhere from 400k-1m+.

In some points i agree, i play only outlaw, because i dont want to be an affliction warlock like assa or a fucked up sub spec without a legendary.
I play outlaw with the Ravenholdt and the Bracers Legendarys, and 400k ST is a joke for me. I Burst for like 1.2 million on bosses with "normal" rolls, and end up being on 600k at the end with tyranical. (with normal rolls) no overpowered ones.
Even on AoE it's not that much RNG as you think, of course shark/truebearing makes it more powerful, but to say that the timer depends on your rolls is just not true, the overall damage is pretty consistent with those legendarys. of course not everyone got those oranges, but they do help the spec big time. and even in a +12 or +14 mythic dungeon trash just dies fast as hell, of course that is a thing where the whole groups comes to shine.

[TwentyTwelve]

In some points i agree, i play only outlaw, because i dont want to be an affliction warlock like assa or a fucked up sub spec without a legendary.
I play outlaw with the Ravenholdt and the Bracers Legendarys, and 400k ST is a joke for me. I Burst for like 1.2 million on bosses with "normal" rolls, and end up being on 600k at the end with tyranical. (with normal rolls) no overpowered ones.
Even on AoE it's not that much RNG as you think, of course shark/truebearing makes it more powerful, but to say that the timer depends on your rolls is just not true, the overall damage is pretty consistent with those legendarys. of course not everyone got those oranges, but they do help the spec big time. and even in a +12 or +14 mythic dungeon trash just dies fast as hell, of course that is a thing where the whole groups comes to shine.

I mean my dps numbers shouldnt be compared with yourself as i am very undergeared and have no legendaries that benefit me (i have the legs), heck i'm not even 35 traits due to the rogue being my alt until 2 weeks ago. But overall Sin outperforms Outlaw in every way for me - and i believe will continue to do so regardless of legendaries, if one benefits Outlaw, it'll benefit Sin.

[lollified]

As far as I have checked from warcraftlogs, outlaw outperforms assassination in overall damage done at all m+ levels, from 2 to 15. So, my question is not "what is the best spec for m+" but if anyone checked PTR so far, with lower cp ruptures getting buffed and whatnot, do you think assassination will at least get closer to outlaw in numbers?

[crenix]

assasin is only really good in m+ if you have the legendary cloak, and even then its only good in higher levels of m+.

[Deleted]

Depends on your group. If you have good cleave, but not great ST, go assassination. If you have great single target already, go outlaw. Of course, good legendaries for one spec make this entire debate pointless because it's more dependent on those than the spec at that point. Also you need to take into account the affixes... Especially the level 10 affix.

That being said, and despite the fact that Blizzard fucked this expansion up with legendaries... If you don't have any, or you have shitty Sephuz's and/or Prydaz, outlaw is the superior dungeon spec. You will do the most overall damage as outlaw... Even at higher mythic plus dungeons.

Outlaw beats SIN ST in below 3 Minute m+ bossfights on any level. There is no use for SIN in mythic+ worst spec ever.

[Deleted]

600-700k+ total dps no matter what key level (i go not lower than 6). bracers, cloak, 890 premium. assa. >1mil burst on single target without prolonged/old war. 600k sustain at +15 tyrannical pure single target fights (and ~20% more if adds/cleve are around).

For very good aoe values you need bracers + cloak + strong aoe trinket, otherwise outlaw will do way better trash dps. Boss dps wise is outlaw not comparable (as long as you dont have very good rng).

[Deleted]

I mean my dps numbers shouldnt be compared with yourself as i am very undergeared and have no legendaries that benefit me (i have the legs), heck i'm not even 35 traits due to the rogue being my alt until 2 weeks ago. But overall Sin outperforms Outlaw in every way for me - and i believe will continue to do so regardless of legendaries, if one benefits Outlaw, it'll benefit Sin.

You're just spreading misinformation - Assa is not the best m+ spec, even when you go higher. Ironically, Assa is more RNG dependant on the parts that matter for speed (Aka AoE). Outlaw goes ballistic with good RNG, but we already knew that. Unlike ST, though, Outlaw will always do good AoE damage, good rolls or not.

Note that I am not here to take a shot at you, it's just that it seems like a lot of Assa rogues go around claiming Assa is the best for high +s and I would like to make people think twice about that belief.

Here is some stuff for everyone to look at:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ps&class=Rogue

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...gue&boss=11501

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...gue&boss=11516

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...gue&boss=11466

You could keep going.

Now, what does this tell us? This tells us that people should REALLY stop feelcrafting and just use actual data.

All three rogue specs are PERFECTLY viable, if you are GOOD AT IT! Sub/Assa REALLY needs the cloak to keep up in most cases (The armory of all max-ranking Sub/Assa rogues will show that), and Assa needs decent poison vial RNG (Which will be ammended in 7.1.5, I think?) - Outlaw is the strongest M+ spec DPS-wise if we don't consider legendaries, since they do really good AoE no matter what. Boots+Cloak for Assa makes it top tier. Boots+Cloak for Sub also makes it top-tier.
This is why Outlaw shows up at the top the *most*, since they don't rely on legendaries to do top-tier m+ dps.

Play whatever you like and/or have legendaries for. All specs are viable if you are know what you are doing.

TL;DR: Stop advocating Assa in higher m+ - All three Rogues specs are represented on Warcraftlogs at max rankings on all levels above 9. Assa/Sub does get BETTER the higher you go, but not better than Outlaw, just better than the spec itself is at lower levels

[glowpipe]

I have 876 ilvl now as assassin. I do from 440 to 460k single target in raids. In m+ 9-10 i never do good trash dps, and i feel my st is low aswell. I know the fights by heart, but just not getting the numbers.

Trash im on about 400-600k With lucky BoT procs i can get from 800 to a million. Even more if there is a like a horde of mobs. But usualy 4 to 600k on 4-5 mobs.
At this point im wondering if people are genuinly lying about their numbers, or if i am doing something fundamentaly wrong. using Deadly poison, I garrote 3 mobs (subterfuge) and 3cp rupture 3-4 mobs, then go to town on fok+envenom spam, Reapplying dots as needed. Still the monk and the mm hunter in the group just roll their face on the keyboard and outdmg me hard. Assa aoe feel way to high maintanance for low reward. But then again, i do have shared belt and the vandetta boots. No aoe helping legendaries.

I am considering going enhancement shaman at this point. Group also lack heroism.

[xmx]

I have 876 ilvl now as assassin. I do from 440 to 460k single target in raids. In m+ 9-10 i never do good trash dps, and i feel my st is low aswell. I know the fights by heart, but just not getting the numbers.

Trash im on about 400-600k With lucky BoT procs i can get from 800 to a million. Even more if there is a like a horde of mobs. But usualy 4 to 600k on 4-5 mobs.
At this point im wondering if people are genuinly lying about their numbers, or if i am doing something fundamentaly wrong. using Deadly poison, I garrote 3 mobs (subterfuge) and 3cp rupture 3-4 mobs, then go to town on fok+envenom spam, Reapplying dots as needed. Still the monk and the mm hunter in the group just roll their face on the keyboard and outdmg me hard. Assa aoe feel way to high maintanance for low reward. But then again, i do have shared belt and the vandetta boots. No aoe helping legendaries.

I am considering going enhancement shaman at this point. Group also lack heroism.

You are probably not doing anything wrong, the majority of people on mmo-c are liars when it comes to their dps numbers. You can see shit like someone doing 500k dps with 850 gear in some other threads.

[tvp6987]

My friend plays outlaw(887 equipped) while I play sin (883 equipped) we did a 15 Nels on time this week. Overall damage he beat me by 4%, 610k vs 585k. I beat him by 150k-200k DPS every boss fight but I can't compete when it comes to trash even with good BoT procs. Bolster/overflow/tran, I'm sure the numbers will be heavily in his favor if it was fort.

[Deleted]

Here is some stuff for everyone to look at:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ps&class=Rogue

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...gue&boss=11501

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...gue&boss=11516

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...gue&boss=11466

Are those logs actually accurate? Most of them only have 1 kill recorded.

Anyway, I play assassination in m+ and I do better on bosses than any outlaw rogue will ever do; the numbers are comparable to what has already been mentioned. Trash is different since it greatly depends on a. poison bomb and b. longevity of mobs. I personally think, outlaw is best there. Regardless, I wouldn't touch that crap spec with a 10 foot pole. It's probably the biggest design fail in Blizzard history.

[Deleted]

Hello guys,
I would advice to play assa for everything in this game. I currently main sub with cape + bracers anda I do manage pretty ok in high M+. I'm not gonna lie, I pull 1M dps in some pulls but I usually do 500 or 600. On bosses I do 400k or more depending on how fast the boss dies. I have played with sin rogues with the same ilvl as me (880) and they beat me by far, in everything. That's my experience.
I would tell you about outlaw, but you don't see many lately so imagine why.

As a hint I would tell you that I used to main outlaw and with 880ilvl 40% crit 15% vers and legend boots I'd manage to do 1M on pulls but I would sink in bosses. When I say sink is not doing more than 300k.

In the end, if you a have a heavy aoe dmg party go sin, if not go sin too. Tells a sub player