Nighthold rewards a bit low?

[Daan]

It feels like NH was supposed to come out earlier, closer to EN so that it wouldn't be that noticeable.

That was really supposed, but then Blizz decided to put a small extra raid (ToV) between.

This shitty titanforge upgrade system makes it hard to balance a new raid and the ilvl from the new gear.

[Sandraudiga]

I can't believe they are making the same mistake as they did in HFC. Different ilvl from the same raid is retarded.

[Orrin]

A result of their idiotic unlimited titanforging loot model is that progression is devalued. Every tier needs to be ridiculously above the last to be meaningful.

In addition there's toxic incentives to endlessly farm old things for trinkets and items that remain best when titanforged which creates severe burnout and lack of enjoyment.

Unlimited Dungeon runss are a culprit. We've had Titanforged before, problem is, you only had ~8 bosses a week to get it from, and you got got only 1 or 2 pieces of loot on average

[Ealyssa]

quality of items =/= ilvl
quality of items > ilvl

That's actually not sure with secondary stat modification in 7.1.5

[kamuimac]

Yea that does seem low. As someone in mythic raid/+ gear, Im already sitting at 893 ilvl, pretty much making heroic pointless to do unless im hoping for wf/tf. I think Heroic should be atleast 900

isnt this what you should want though ? if you raid mythic you SHOULD be able to go stright from mythic tov into mythic nighthold.

also if you spamed extensively mythic + its only on you for using alternative source of progress outside of raiding.

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A result of their idiotic unlimited titanforging loot model is that progression is devalued. Every tier needs to be ridiculously above the last to be meaningful.

its not and it doesnt -it should be tuned correckly for itlv it drops - will it make is very easy for mythic crybabies ? yes and it SHOULD be easy if for people who put hundreds of hours into mythic + .

[Temp name]

Unlimited Dungeon runss are a culprit. We've had Titanforged before, problem is, you only had ~8 bosses a week to get it from, and you got got only 1 or 2 pieces of loot on average

And titanforged could only proc +6 ilvls. Now you can get upto 895, from any base ilvl.

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That's actually not sure with secondary stat modification in 7.1.5

The firemages in my guild want crit even more in 7.1.5 than they do now. Instead of crit being worth ~1.7 int, it'll be worth ~3.5

[kamuimac]

Unlimited Dungeon runss are a culprit. W

they are not - dungeons are f... alternative to riading - its not blizzard fault if retards dont know the meaning of word "limit" and spam them 1000 times .

for such people nighthold shoudl be a easy mode because they already nvested so much time into game they should see it as reward.

[Twdft]

Yea that does seem low. As someone in mythic raid/+ gear, Im already sitting at 893 ilvl, pretty much making heroic pointless to do unless im hoping for wf/tf. I think Heroic should be atleast 900

As a mythic raider your next upgrades should come from NH mythic, or not?

HC raiders are about 870-875 by now so first NH bosses dropping 885 baseline is totally OK. By far not everyone farms mythic+ 5men ad nauseum. Yes you can be 885 without raiding mythic but that's not your typical HC raider.

[vsb]

I'm 5/7 EN Mythic and I'm wearing 886 ilvl. 875 items with good stats would be minor upgrade for many slots for me. 890 would be upgrade for almost any slot. And I'm unlikely to get better gear before NH, because we are trying to kill Cenarius and we don't have time for farm (also new year holidays, so don't really much time before NH for us).

[l33t]

Why is that a problem..?

Why? Because crappy itemisation - with this particular system blizzard "balance" specs by denying some specs loot while showering other specs with loot early in progression when it matters most. So, at first it gives absurd advantages for specs who have their bis gear in early bosses, and then on farm people who get their higher-ilvl bis gear from last bosses get absurd advantage as well because of pure higher ilvl. Just like it was in HFC...

I'm fine with last boss dropping higher ilvl loot, but this hfc-like nonsense really is idiotic.

[Temp name]

Why? Because crappy itemisation - with this particular system blizzard "balance" specs by denying some specs loot while showering other specs with loot early in progression when it matters most. I'm fine with last boss dropping higher ilvl loot, but this hfc-like nonsense really is idiotic.

But it lets you feel a tangible benefit while progressing rather than when you've finished it. The last boss' loot is completely irrelevant as you're done progressing when you kill him, and as such you don't need the loot he drops. Whereas this way, the gear you get becomes more and more powerful the deeper you progress

[l33t]

But it lets you feel a tangible benefit while progressing rather than when you've finished it. The last boss' loot is completely irrelevant as you're done progressing when you kill him, and as such you don't need the loot he drops. Whereas this way, the gear you get becomes more and more powerful the deeper you progress

Yeah that could happen if blizzard weren't well known for absurdly crappy itemisation and their attempts on "balancing" dps specs over gear they get in raids. I can't speak for everyone of course, but my raid team was terribly disappointed by hfc loot system, compared to, say, brf "default" one.

[Amantino]

In game it shows 905+ for all mythic bosses

First 3 drops 900 ilvl loot, next 6 ilvl 905 while Gul'dan drops ilvl 910.

[uxzuigal]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot

Then we have Nighthold:
- The first 4 NormalHeroic Nighthold bosses drop 870/885
- The next 5 Normal/Heroic Nighthold bosses drop 875/890

Anyone else feel that the Nighthold rewards feel a bit on the low side? Most people that have dabbled into Mythic+ and raiding (just pugging) would surely be in the 860's and close to 870 by now. The upgrades from Nighthold would be very marginal, especially given the 4 months of Titanforged opportunities.

i think that the Nighthold rewards should be bumped up a bit (+5 item levels across the board) to distinguish Nighthold as the premiere destination for upgrades. The last thing we need is another raid undermined by the lackluster rewards overall.

Why do you mention EN Mythic and not Nighthold Mythic? You cannot compare mythic EN to heroic Nighthold. It is two different levels of commitment.

You are bumped from 865+ ilvl in HC EN to 885-890+ ilvl in Nighthold.. that is a huge step up in power! Sure, weekly chest upto 885+, that is one item however, and with perfect luck we are talking about 14 weeks to complete your gear there.

[Waltzinblack]

This thread is ridiculous, as you've missed out Nighthold mythic, which is what people with ~890 item levels will be targeting. Heroic is not meant to be a raid full of upgrades for mythic raiders.

[Raiju]

Yea that does seem low. As someone in mythic raid/+ gear, Im already sitting at 893 ilvl, pretty much making heroic pointless to do unless im hoping for wf/tf. I think Heroic should be atleast 900

If you've been farming mythic EN/ToV why would you even expect a heroic raid of the same tier to be particularly useful to you? I mean ignoring the far stronger trinkets & tier sets.

You're meant to go straight into mythic week 2.

[Deleted]

quality of items =/= ilvl
quality of items > ilvl

but ilvl gives items more stats, for example item with 900 ilvl will have more stats than item with 880 ilvl
more stats on items=quality of items

[omeomorfismo]

And titanforged could only proc +6 ilvls. Now you can get upto 895, from any base ilvl.

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The firemages in my guild want crit even more in 7.1.5 than they do now. Instead of crit being worth ~1.7 int, it'll be worth ~3.5

never tried to do a bit of math?

[Cracked]

The firemages in my guild want crit even more in 7.1.5 than they do now. Instead of crit being worth ~1.7 int, it'll be worth ~3.5

Damn the mages in your guild are lying to you quite a bit.

[TwoNineMarine]

It's a tough thing for them to balance I imagine. On one hand you want to keep old content relevant by giving players the chance to get a good upgrade by doing said old content. On the other hand you want to make the new content relevant as well. And to do that you need to make the gear high enough ilvl where players will do it a lot initially.

Tough situation for em.

OT: It does seem a bit low. Most of it would be an upgrade for me though. I'm only 873 ilvl.