UK - a few cities to trial voter ID laws

[primalmatter]

because voting is a right and ID is not free. Not only that ID is expensive and you have to jump through hoops to get it. There is no massive fraud issue in the UK. This is clearly a move by the UKIP wing of the Tory party to try to disenfranchise groups who vote Labour.

If £34 is to expensive they really should just work for the day rather then vote.

[Kallisto]

You don't have to worry about a low Labour turnout, it'll happen anyway with JC in charge of the party.

Snark aside, voter fraud hasn't been a significant issue and placing monetary barriers on voters is a perversion of the democratic process in my opinion.

To be fair in the UK the risk of getting caught trying to commit fraud is just that damn high most wouldn't bother. You have to somehow sneak into a persons home, take their voting card and then hope they have not already voted via proxy or reported card missing. If they have done either of the two you can't use that voting card.

Also each voting card is only eligable for one poling station. So you can't just go use it in any local poling station. My sister and I live essentially in two roads that are separated by main road. A 30s walk from each other. Yet we have to go to two different poling stations (Granted the two stations are only 1 minute apart). I can not vote in hers and she can't in mine.

Each station also has representatives from multiple parties (Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and UKIP are at everyone in town. Greens show up here and there, also a raving loony party fan will show up sometimes). That isn't to say fraud isn't happening. But the money barrier for this ID. Either over £100 for a passport. Or a Utility bill which means you're having your own place is a major barrier for many low income families. Especially those who are over 18 but work doesn't give enough money to move away from home and at the same time don't have a valid passport. These people will have no utility bills and no ID

[Deleted]

And only valid for a year, if I remember correctly.

Ten years, just had to change address on mine & the letter that came with it said it's due next year, had mine nine years.

[Kallisto]

If £34 is to expensive they really should just work for the day rather then vote.

£34?

That's not the cost for an ID that is going to be considered valid. The only valid one is the damn passport which is a hell of a lot more than £34.

Also given that voting is a RIGHT in this country if IDs are to be put into place they should be Free for everyone. Otherwise this is simply put a ploy to make sure only the right people vote.

[Deleted]

.... really?

Can't they simply use their passport or citizenship card then? This really seems like a non issue made into a big deal.

Passport costs more & is harder/lengthier process to get one.
Plus, unless folk are going on holidays, why would they have one?

Side note, I get asked for a passport at job interviews, this country is fooked.

[Kallisto]

Passport costs more & is harder/lengthier process to get one.
Plus, unless folk are going on holidays, why would they have one?

Side note, I get asked for a passport at job interviews, this country is fooked.

Since 2008 it's either passport.

Or

Full Birth Certificate (not the small one) and 1-2 pieces of government approved mail which shows your NI number.

[Snorkles]

I had to go for an interview to prove I was British when I got a passport - despite being white, born in the UK with British parents (one of which has never even been abroad).

I suspect if you're poor and can't afford 1) the passport or 2) the time off work to go for the stupid interview you'd probably just not bother voting.

I also got pretty much every question wrong in my interview but the guy laughed and said that was a good sign I was British...

[primalmatter]

Passport costs more & is harder/lengthier process to get one.
Plus, unless folk are going on holidays, why would they have one?

Side note, I get asked for a passport at job interviews, this country is fooked.

I would say its a move in the right direction. Blame those that made it necessary rather then those looking for solutions.

[klogaroth]

I thought we were having a bit of trouble processing passport applications, so it's not that someone wants some more work for their department to justify their budgets.

We've not had a big media campaign about made up voter fraud cos there's not even enough of it to do one of those.

Does someone in the cabinet stand to make money from the sale of passports somehow? Do they own shares in a supplier or something? Unless they just forget to put together a fear campaign about what might happen in some fictional timey wimey AU through the 2nd dark portal UK?

[Kallisto]

I would say its a move in the right direction. Blame those that made it necessary rather then those looking for solutions.

But it isn't necessary, a one off event in a ocean of millions of elections over the decades both at national (Brexit), local areas (General election is 650 local elections, country, district, town councils) and all we have is evidence of one area. To sensible people that's called a blip and so rare that what we have really is working.

[Belize]

If £34 is to expensive they really should just work for the day rather then vote.

And you just inadvertently hit the nail on the head: If people can't afford to leave their jobs, they can't go out to vote.

It's voter suppression, pure and simple.

[primalmatter]

But it isn't necessary, a one off event in a ocean of millions of elections over the decades both at national (Brexit), local areas (General election is 650 local elections, country, district, town councils) and all we have is evidence of one area. To sensible people that's called a blip and so rare that what we have really is working.

I don't see how asking for ID isn't sensible. How could it possibly have a major impact unless a massive section of your electorate are unemployed bums draped in rags (They have to be extremely poor bums not to have id it is even common among the homeless least it is around here).

Why are you digging your heels in here?

[Sting]

I've always found it odd that there even are countries without ID laws. You wanna vote, sure, prove it's actually you. Isn't some sort of identification mandatory anyway?

What's stopping people from voting multiple times in countries without ID laws?

[rogueMatthias]

Why is bringing id to vote considered a scandel...?

Same as the US: Because it discriminates against minorities because they're all poor criminals that can't afford IDS, and they're not as educated as all the white folk so they can't work out how to get to the nearest DVLA to get a form in order to apply for an ID, let alone know how to work a computer to make an application... or something like that. I never understood how most of the liberals arguments against IDs weren't just pretty offensively racist themselves.

This is clearly a move by the UKIP wing of the Tory party to try to disenfranchise groups who vote Labour.

Good luck with that. While the SNP keeps high support in Scotland, Labour can NEVER get into power. With the boundary reform being pushed in by the Tories, there's a good chance that nobody else will ever be able to win the elections again.

[Deleted]

Since 2008 it's either passport.

Or

Full Birth Certificate (not the small one) and 1-2 pieces of government approved mail which shows your NI number.

Ah, full birth is cheaper, got one of those recently too.
£9.25 or £25ish rushed (if you've got all details required too).
Having said that, it took around four weeks for it to arrive, so folk'd better get one sooner rather than later.

[Total Crica]

Certain people see it as discrimination against poorer people, and by extensions minorities that are more likely to be poor. The cheapest id in the UK is provisional drivers licence, which is £34

Solution: don't charge people who don't have enough money

[primalmatter]

Still don't get why you should have to apply to vote, if you are legal citizen in a country you should be able to vote.

You answered your own question...

[Deleted]

I am against an ID law. Everyone in a country should be allowed to vote. Currently large parts of the population of many European countries are barred from becoming part of the democratic process excluding them from society and the most important right in a democracy. How can we talk about integration, a multicultural society and cooperation when we don't let people vote who live in those European countries solely because they might be undocumented, not have citizenship, supposedly be to young or be incapable of reading the language the ballots are in.

It is an injustice and perversion of European values that simply cannot stand and needs to be changed. People who are capable of going to the places where votes are held should be allowed to vote no matter their circumstances.

[primalmatter]

Not really, it works different here.
Some time before we have the election, I get a personalised voting ticket.
That's because the government knows who I am and that I have the right to vote.
On election day I walk two minutes, wait a minute in the line, show my cheap and easy-to-get ID that every citizen has and cast my vote.

I am utterly confused about what this thread is about then...

- - - Updated - - -

I am against an ID law. Everyone in a country should be allowed to vote. Currently large parts of the population of many European countries are barred from becoming part of the democratic process excluding them from society and the most important right in a democracy. How can we talk about integration, a multicultural society and cooperation when we don't let people vote who live in those European countries solely because they might be undocumented, not have citizenship, supposedly be to young or be incapable of reading the language the ballots are in.

It is an injustice and perversion of European values that simply cannot stand and needs to be changed. People who are capable of going to the places where votes are held should be allowed to vote no matter their circumstances.

Sarcasm I hope?

Either that or I really have no hope for you.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=primalmatter;43938358]I am utterly confused about what this thread is about then...

They're from Netherlands, it's completely different in blighty as they don't have a cheap & easy relevant ID.