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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Frost or Arcane in 7.1.5?

    Any PTR guru's out there that can give a summary and opinion of changes coming soon?

    Would love to stay arcane but I'm hearing allot of negativity that makes me wonder if Frost will be better?

    Thanks.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    If you're already arcane and want to keep it that way, stay Arcane. The only reason to play something else based on current data is if you dont like playing Arcane.

  4. #4
    Arcane is currently (as of the writing of this post) highest in single target at 880 ilvl in 7.1.5. As always, PTR is in flux and not final yet. Different specs seems to be better at different ilvls and gear situations. It seems that Arcane is currently scaling the best without Nighthold gear/set bonuses and BiS legendaries being taken into account.

    880 ilvl as of current 7.1.5 iteration:
    http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html

  5. #5
    SImcraft page has 0 lendaries and 0 tier bonuses, so its not really worth much.

  6. #6
    Play whatever you're vastly ahead on artifact power in. 10% damage from 54 will likely outweigh anything else.

    Unless you've done a tremendous amount of farming.

  7. #7
    Adding 10% to your Fire damage barely gets you above Frost without paragon traits, and is still like 15k dps behind arcane.

  8. #8
    It was always an issue with encounter mechanics and how much damage can that spec dish out under those circumstances, currently the changes to Arcane looks very promising and possibly could stand on par with Fire and Frost spec's .

  9. #9
    Deleted
    ST rarely matters anyway, and fire is mechanically a better spec, and got its aoe significantly buffed too *cough memestrike spec ftw*.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    ST rarely matters anyway...
    Are you serious? ST is what you want to focus in mythic raids - there are some AoE situations, but that can be handled by few players and at the end ST is what kills bosses (look at SPs in EM and ToV). AoE is just for log whoring and M+ ofc.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewwindeeps View Post
    Arcane is currently (as of the writing of this post) highest in single target at 880 ilvl in 7.1.5. As always, PTR is in flux and not final yet. Different specs seems to be better at different ilvls and gear situations. It seems that Arcane is currently scaling the best without Nighthold gear/set bonuses and BiS legendaries being taken into account.

    880 ilvl as of current 7.1.5 iteration:
    http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html
    That is the no legendaries sim.


    This was done today my the ppl on discord where most of the mage sim writers are at.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    That is the no legendaries sim.


    This was done today my the ppl on discord where most of the mage sim writers are at.
    Is there any other info out there for those specs/combos? i.e. the exact stats/gear/artifact power/talent builds?

  13. #13
    nothing is tuned though so you really can't go by the sims or numbers in ptr

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    That is the no legendaries sim.[Snip]
    Interesting numbers. First off, the legendaryless index between the specs [Frost: 100 | Arcane: 97 | Fire: 89] certainly underlines the severe reduction in Fire ST damage that's been proclaimed from even the very early 7.1.5 PTR iterations. Even at optimum gearing in terms of legendaries, this discrepancy seems to persist [Frost: 100 | Fire: ~91 | Arcane: 89] with the slight surprise, to me anyway, that Fire overtakes Arcane. This summation, of course, omits the FS build which may be a mistake, but considering the way Blizzard has treated AOE abilities weaved into ST rotations in the past, the long term viability of that approach must be questioned.

    So, I guess, if these numbers are to be taken at face value - and given the source (Discord), there's no reason not to - Frost appear the clear ST winner. Especially if you add that Frost probably has the most forgiving rotation (even if Fire's dependancy on flawless Combustions has been slightly reduced).

    The usual disclaimer about PTR's is there, but given that the background downloader has been initiated, I guess there's a limit to how much flux the PTR can be in.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewwindeeps View Post
    Is there any other info out there for those specs/combos? i.e. the exact stats/gear/artifact power/talent builds?
    Yea Its on
    https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=2&t=3488

    Keep in mind this guy wanted to play frost so he worked a bit harder on it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamran View Post
    So, I guess, if these numbers are to be taken at face value - and given the source (Discord), there's no reason not to - Frost appear the clear ST winner. Especially if you add that Frost probably has the most forgiving rotation (even if Fire's dependancy on flawless Combustions has been slightly reduced).
    The bolded is absolutely incorrect. TV frost pulling those numbers is especially hard to play because you need to hit everything perfectly and constantly to extend IV to those times. Any downtime, mistake, boss phase, whatever that stops you from pressing buttons instantly is punished swiftly by the loss of tons of your damage. Those numbers are dependent on huge IV up times.
    Last edited by Erolian; 2017-01-02 at 10:45 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    The bolded is absolutely incorrect. TV frost pulling those numbers is especially hard to play because you need to hit everything perfectly and constantly to extend IV to those times. Any downtime, mistake, boss phase, whatever that stops you from pressing buttons instantly is punished swiftly by the loss of tons of your damage. Those numbers are dependent on huge IV up times.
    Good point. There might be an argument to be made that NH gearing - and higher haste levels - will make TV easier to maintain, but you're correct there's challenge there. Do you perceive Frost to be as unforgiving as Arcane - in terms of mana mismanagement? Also, I guess, TV becomes even more important to maintain if T15 is RoF in order to extend IV to include the second RoF.

  18. #18
    What Turkey said.
    Frost suffers the most, by far, from mechanics causing DPS breaks. And that's where patchwerk sims differ greatly from real life.
    Another thing about the images above - it is good to remember that Shard being featured in so many BiS combos results from sims always lusting on pull. In a fight like Odyn or Helya it would be far behind other combos, I'm suspecting even the changed Norgannon's would beat it on Odyn for a 7.1.5 fire mage.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Yea Its on
    https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=2&t=3488

    Keep in mind this guy wanted to play frost so he worked a bit harder on it.
    Very good post being linked here; just as a starting point to differentiate the specs in 7.1.5. And to your point, Turkey One, from the AT post:

    "A fellow theorycrafter notes: "Playing TV frost is fucking hard. I would strongly consider how good you actually are at the game before you go down that road."

    Remember, the sim is playing it "perfectly". If you mess up TV, you get punished pretty hard, and that can be really difficult when you're learning a new fight, and if there are significant breaks in the fight then dps drops pretty quick. Don't be fooled by big numbers in a sim".

  20. #20
    Simc is broken for ptr, it sims your toon with 100% crit and gives me 100k dps increase from 7.1.0 to 7.1.5
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

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