Nighthold raid which spec is top tier?

[Deleted]

I dont remember the exact numbers but with nothing you get a shard about 6.5 ticks, with se about 6, and with sc it translates to roughly 1 in 5, for single target. And yes sc will give much more uptime for mg which makes it king there.

With SC generated shards also being able to generate a shard it's more like 25%.

Also MG already invalidates SL/Cor on SE as the MG channel on the boss during 1 GCD deals more dmg then 35% Cor/SL do over the entire duration. Obviously AC allows Cor to be applied to SE.

In the end it all comes down to the amount of dots we need to keep up. The more time spend on Dots, the less MG becomes worth it.

With WiA + AC + SL + SE we need to keep up Agony/SL x2 + Dump UAs during reap.
With MG + Contagion + SL + SC we need to keep up our 3 dots + UA.
etc.

[HeyGuysHello]

What a joke of a response. SE loses value the more targets you add. There is no encounter in the game where SE gains in value the more targets there are. This is what you claimed, and it is wrong. And if you'd like to compare parses, sure, we can play that game.

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You definitely do not generate more shards playing soul effigy than soul conduit. Effigy is only there for the damage. It is superior single target, and it is still superior 2 target, but you will never, ever have more shards from effigy than you will from conduit.

It's not about SE generating more shards. Generally on a 3+ council fight you're not going to have the time to MG, so you'll take WiA. WiA/SC is a balancing act on Botanist that isn't worth it. It'll be better to go WiA/AC/SE, and you can bank on that.

[ctrlaltdleet]

you generate a bit more shards using the Effigy aswell. Since you put Agony on the Effigy, but to be fair it is only a 33% increased chance and not twice the chance.

I think that Soul Effigy is actually SLIGHTLY better than Soul Conduit but only if executed really well.

I will probably take SC aswell. Probably because it is more forgiving and gives me more freedom.

Actually it is a FACT that effigy is Currently NOT generating the Shards its supposed to be.

[Deleted]

Actually it is a FACT that effigy is Currently NOT generating the Shards its supposed to be.

could you clarify a bit more? first I've heard of this

All I know is that Agony does not scale linear with multi targets in terms of soul shard generatrion. E.g. 2 targets with Agony does not mean you get twice the amount compared to just 1 target

[ctrlaltdleet]

could you clarify a bit more? first I've heard of this

All I know is that Agony does not scale linear with multi targets in terms of soul shard generatrion. E.g. 2 targets with Agony does not mean you get twice the amount compared to just 1 target

Currently, on LIVE and PTR the Effigy Parses and actual way the spell is supposed to Generate its soul shards is currently bugged. Its not Generating the Shards its supposed to Generate. The HIGHEST parsing DPS currently, with the Effigy working the way it is INTENDED would put the SE on top of damage less than 2% Damage overall, but at this current state of the game PTR and Live, It actually does not work as intended.

[Dwill]

Currently, on LIVE and PTR the Effigy Parses and actual way the spell is supposed to Generate its soul shards is currently bugged. Its not Generating the Shards its supposed to Generate. The HIGHEST parsing DPS currently, with the Effigy working the way it is INTENDED would put the SE on top of damage less than 2% Damage overall, but at this current state of the game PTR and Live, It actually does not work as intended.

So does this mean that currently Soul Conduit is king across all situation until Soul Effigy is fixed ?

[Deleted]

Apparently so. By live and ptr I presume he's referring to 7.1.5

And yes apparently Effigy is bugged as far as shard generation from agony is concerned. Either that or there's an undocumented nerf intended to avoid Malefic Grasp + Soul Effigy from being the best single target, because I suggest the whole intention was to allow people to avoid Effigy and th emoment players see "top damage build" they will tend to take it. Also, a MG+Conduit build is likely easy to play so perhapos you would get mor eout of it.

On the other hand, Effigy (and Writhe) work very well in high movement fights whilst Grasp is severely screwed by it. That's why Grasp is so strong, they have toallow for movement phases when you can;t use it.

It's why I take sims on patchwerk with a VERY large pinch of salt. They are useful for comparing across specs and classes unde rperfect circumstances, but for example affliction parses stronge rin real fights than sims because it's so mobile. Which makes it's poor single target remarkable considering this advantage.

[dmon83]

I am going to play what I always play because I love it and it's Affliction, I don't care what will be better or not.

Exactly - thats me and demo. I like my skull - I poured everything into this and it just works. Woot.

[Dwill]

Apparently so. By live and ptr I presume he's referring to 7.1.5

And yes apparently Effigy is bugged as far as shard generation from agony is concerned. Either that or there's an undocumented nerf intended to avoid Malefic Grasp + Soul Effigy from being the best single target, because I suggest the whole intention was to allow people to avoid Effigy and th emoment players see "top damage build" they will tend to take it. Also, a MG+Conduit build is likely easy to play so perhapos you would get mor eout of it.

On the other hand, Effigy (and Writhe) work very well in high movement fights whilst Grasp is severely screwed by it. That's why Grasp is so strong, they have toallow for movement phases when you can;t use it.

It's why I take sims on patchwerk with a VERY large pinch of salt. They are useful for comparing across specs and classes unde rperfect circumstances, but for example affliction parses stronge rin real fights than sims because it's so mobile. Which makes it's poor single target remarkable considering this advantage.

I have a feeling I'll be using my Norgannon's Foresight for quite a few encounters to try to get a few % of uptime on Malefic Grasp.

[Deleted]

Affliction for the adds fights, and destruction for the split, solo fights.

[Kromus]

If all on par with legendaries and artifact and gear, Destro is likely going to be your best bet based on PTR feedback.

The reality is it's down to what you have your best legendaries and artifact with. No point going Destro if you put your life into Demo.

But it looks another tier of Destro/Demo.

And as always, if your raiding at a certain level of mythic that's not bleeding edge progression, you can just play whatever you fancy that doesn't gimp your progression based on the work you put into artifacts and farming legendaries.

But to answer the originally question, from my view, formed by PTR and the general feedback of top progression warlocks in prep for Nighthold

1) Destro
2) Demo
3) Affliction

[Orwell7]

I think you're all overestimating Blizzard about Soul Effigy.
It's not like they have intentions to have "bugged" Soul Shard generation on Effigy. It's just a bug somewhere in the system.
Also: it is absolutely not a priority to fix this bug over something else.
There are numerous bugs reported since alpha but no one cares.

There are not "intention" about Soul Effigy being weaker or stronger than Soul Conduit- they do not even think about it if our numbers are "within the ballpark".
Just like in Mad Men: "I feel bad about you" -> "I don't think about you at all"

That's what we've got!