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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugraka View Post
    What I don't get is why people think if Dems become obstructionists then it is the final nail in their coffin. Will they look like massive hypocrites? Of course... but being obstructionists worked out amazingly for the Republicans. Why it can't work out for the Democrats according to some of you makes no sense. The pendulum will keep swinging.
    It is a conundrum and I cannot explain why only that it is what it is. Things don't always made sense or that can be placed into neat little glass jars. If people could predict what happened than Trump winning the presidency wouldn't have been 10,000 to 1 which is nearly the odds of successfully navigating through an asteroid field.

    However the facts currently now remains true that there is a deep distrust in the Democratic party with exposure of DNC and MSM collusion not withstanding. One could say that at least the GOP is honest in the respect that while they laughed at a Trump candidacy GOP gave him that chance. The same CANNOT be said about Bernie Sanders and the DNC.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    It is a conundrum and I cannot explain why only that it is what it is. Things don't always made sense or that can be placed into neat little glass jars. If people could predict what happened than Trump winning the presidency wouldn't have been 10,000 to 1 which is nearly the odds of successfully navigating through an asteroid field.

    However the facts currently now remains true that there is a deep distrust in the Democratic party with exposure of DNC and MSM collusion not withstanding. One could say that at least the GOP is honest in the respect that while they laughed at a Trump candidacy GOP gave him that chance. The same CANNOT be said about Bernie Sanders and the DNC.
    I am of the opinion that democrats should not be obstructionist, democrats should vote no but not filibuster much if anything. They should let republicans privatize social security, medicare, medicaid and fully repeal Obamacare. They should also let republicans overturn Roe V. Wade, I don't see why they should stop any of this if they want to get back in power. The people that voted for Trump wanted change they should let republicans enact their agenda and let Trump voters enjoy the full weight of their choice.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    I am of the opinion that democrats should not be obstructionist, democrats should vote no but not filibuster much if anything. They should let republicans privatize social security, medicare, medicaid and fully repeal Obamacare. They should also let republicans overturn Roe V. Wade, I don't see why they should stop any of this if they want to get back in power. The people that voted for Trump wanted change they should let republicans enact their agenda and let Trump voters enjoy the full weight of their choice.
    I am glad we agree.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    I am of the opinion that democrats should not be obstructionist, democrats should vote no but not filibuster much if anything. They should let republicans privatize social security, medicare, medicaid and fully repeal Obamacare. They should also let republicans overturn Roe V. Wade, I don't see why they should stop any of this if they want to get back in power. The people that voted for Trump wanted change they should let republicans enact their agenda and let Trump voters enjoy the full weight of their choice.
    Because for a lot of them it's not about being in power, but having those things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  5. #285
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    It is a conundrum and I cannot explain why only that it is what it is. Things don't always made sense or that can be placed into neat little glass jars. If people could predict what happened than Trump winning the presidency wouldn't have been 10,000 to 1 which is nearly the odds of successfully navigating through an asteroid field.

    However the facts currently now remains true that there is a deep distrust in the Democratic party with exposure of DNC and MSM collusion not withstanding. One could say that at least the GOP is honest in the respect that while they laughed at a Trump candidacy GOP gave him that chance. The same CANNOT be said about Bernie Sanders and the DNC.
    Eh as I said and I've said before in other threads. People are fickle as hell when it comes to their politics. That people can go from being Obama supporters to Trump supporters just proves that to me. Pendulum etc etc, 8 years of democratic "rule" with no real major improvements to the middle class so they go "well these guys suck, next people get a try" and then those people will probably not accomplish very much either... or they'll screw things up. So back we go. In 4-8 years time you'll see the same level of distrust with the GOP mark my words.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Because for a lot of them it's not about being in power, but having those things.
    That is incredibly short sighted and stupid, people don't respond to being saved from bad things they have not experienced. If democrats want to regain power they need to let the fire burn the house down so they can show up and be the hero. Republicans plan was just that throw as many roadblocks as possible then complain about the system being broken. Everyone likes the hero, the democrats need to get out the way and let republicans drink themselves to death.

  7. #287
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Of course... but being obstructionists worked out amazingly for the Republicans.
    It didn't actually. The obstructionism was highly unpopular with a lot of the voters on both sides of the Isle. It is not the reason the Republicans won seats or Trump won. The obstructionism was only popular with the most deeply partisan voters, the kind of people that would vote republican no matter what.

    The Democrats and Obama sunk themselves over things they actually did, things they passed unilaterally that were deeply unpopular and blew up in their faces. One of these things literally is called after Obama.

    Obamacare destroyed the Democrats on every level: Local, state, governships, house, senate and presidency. They passed it unilaterally during a full blown economic crisis and it didn't work. It was a very costly affair that only succeeded in pissing everyone off. It crushed Obama's popularity to a point it never recovered until the attention of voters turned to Trump and Hillary.

    Why did Bill Clinton shout that Obamacare is the craziest thing he knows? Because he knows the Middle Class, he knows the actual statistics and he knows how much it is loathed. The only smart thing the Republicans did is that they didn't allow the Democrats to fix anything...until very recently that is ( bet you didn't hear that one on the media ).

    Then there were the unilaterally executive orders and all the foreign interventions: Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen.

    Revik and Dracos854 are absolutely right in that what will crush the Republicans is to let them sink their own graves just like Obama sunk his. The problem is I just don't see it happen, not because they won't try: This moronic move to try and gut the Ethics Office is certainly one of them, but rather because the Dems are being pushed hard by the partisans to say no....well that won't work. It won't work cause the Republicans will then blow the filibuster if you block the supreme court nominee or republican legislation.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2017-01-04 at 08:55 PM.

  8. #288
    Are there any non-CNN links to that story? I'd like to link those to some of the more pro-trump "friends" on Facebook, but any whiff of CNN and it's all "fake news " spam all again.
    "It's just like I always said! You can do battle with strength, you can do battle with wits, but no weapon can beat a great pair of tits!"

  9. #289
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/02/po...tee-amendment/



    The GOP wants to move the Office of Congressional Ethics, which operates independently, under the control of the House Ethics Committee, essentially ending it as a nonpartisan agency.
    Makes sense for a right wing authoritarian party emboldened and ecstatic that an authoritarian police state (Russia) helped them gain more power in a liberal democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  10. #290
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    That is incredibly short sighted and stupid, people don't respond to being saved from bad things they have not experienced. If democrats want to regain power they need to let the fire burn the house down so they can show up and be the hero. Republicans plan was just that throw as many roadblocks as possible then complain about the system being broken. Everyone likes the hero, the democrats need to get out the way and let republicans drink themselves to death.
    Are you aware that same strategy was tried in the 80s against Reagan?

    The result was those Republican ideologies being entrenched across the length and breadth of what passes for a political spectrum in the USA, along with multiple long-ranging disasters (e.g. the current Middle East situation) resulting from more specific policies.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Are you aware that same strategy was tried in the 80s against Reagan?

    The result was those Republican ideologies being entrenched across the length and breadth of what passes for a political spectrum in the USA, along with multiple long-ranging disasters (e.g. the current Middle East situation) resulting from more specific policies.
    Democrats simply lack the leadership and the spine to implement this strategy effectively, my biggest problem with the democratic party is that they are spineless cowards.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    Democrats simply lack the leadership and the spine to implement this strategy effectively, my biggest problem with the democratic party is that they are spineless cowards.
    So rather than prevent certain things from getting fucked up in the first place your plan is for them to be the exact spineless coward you claimed they are in the hopes that shit will get fucked up enough and they can maybe fix it sometimes later hopefully.


    Dumb dumb dumb dumb plan.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
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  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    So rather than prevent certain things from getting fucked up in the first place your plan is for them to be the exact spineless coward you claimed they are in the hopes that shit will get fucked up enough and they can maybe fix it sometimes later hopefully.


    Dumb dumb dumb dumb plan.
    Tell me how did the populous react to republican obstructionism again? Your problem is thinking people are logical and well informed, mark my words by preventing bad things from happening democrats will be relegated to the boy who cried wolf. People in general don't care about politics and are incredibly lazy or dumb, Chuck Schummer yelling about doom they will ignore their social security check cut down by 30 - 50 % they won't. The voters in this country only care about results when their medicare, medicaid, social security and reproductive rights are in danger then they will get off their lazy asses and vote.

  14. #294
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    mark my words by preventing bad things from happening democrats will be relegated to the boy who cried wolf.
    You're right on the money though you're too insulting to the voters.

    Here's a better way of saying it: People don't have the damned time to care about politics: They've got work, they've got family, they've got kids and/or college. People do not have the time to waste on the nitty gritty details of legislation.

    A lot of people despise Obamacare because it screwed over their healthcare plans with no advantage. Republicans would do very well NOT to repeal Obamacare because that will collapse the entire US healthcare system and EVERYONE will despise them. They should replace it.

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