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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The problem is partisan politics. It's like rust for your brain.



    Except the fact that your vote will literally count for zero because of the Electoral College's WTA system.

    And frankly, even in the states that use the CD method it'd still almost certainly count for zero.
    The electoral college is not the only driving force in the election, they work to represent states by population, so a president cant just ignore states.
    Then the party itself chooses its canditates and then weeds them out, the democrats removed bernie in favour of hillary and lost because of it, a trump bernie 2016 would have been more fair.

  2. #42
    It is and isn't a lie. The lie is that the person working next to me, doing the same job, but votes differently is my enemy. He is not. It isn't a lie, however. The US is divided, strongly divided on economic lines -- wage slave mentality and all that, do a good job and work hard and all will be well. That's the lie, and the true divide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    ]
    Then the party itself chooses its canditates and then weeds them out, the democrats removed bernie in favour of hillary and lost because of it, a trump bernie 2016 would have been more fair.
    Blah blah wins popular vote but loses election blah blah. I won't rehash arguments about that I was making 17 years ago.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  3. #43
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Probably half false and half true.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    In free societies there will always be many people who passionately disagree with each other. It's much better than a conformist herd society where people do not go against popular opinions.
    Sure, but I think it's a good idea for questions like "were the Nazis the bad guys" to probably have a unified answer.
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  5. #45
    Controversy sells, so media runs with it. With the rather aburd amount of big for-profit media conglomerates you guys have, political hysteria is only enhanced.

    Add that the rather silly amount of money that floats in the political sphere, since donations are barely regulated, and you have a recipe for a lot of special interests wanting the country to be, and stay, divided.

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans Aeriedk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    It is a lie, but its a very profitable lie for all the people who peddle grievance culture and a promise of moral superiority over people who disagree with you.
    I disagree. This election divided families more than ever before. There was a mass of problems over the holidays of family members being uninvited due to political conflicts.

    It's usual bad, but usual in the end someone that is "qualified" wins. Trump could end up being good or bad... we won't know for awhile, but he certainly is not qualified.

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  7. #47
    The American people are divided among various specific topics, yes. They are not divided into a party war; only politicians are involved in that.

  8. #48
    I think there is more of culture divide in America amid some major cities, the coasts, the interior and rural areas. Sometimes it's kinda dramatic and sharp; but even places like Massachusetts can be surprisingly conservative depending on where you go. Places like Michigan or Ohio, surprisingly liberal.

    It's just a complicated country.

  9. #49
    At the end of the day it comes down to money here. A vast over simplification, I know, but look at our history.

    Every war, every propaganda campaign, every scandal. Money is the one constant.

    It was extremely profitable for the powers that be to convince Americans that there was a such thing as race. It was profitable to convince people that blacks were less than by nature. Now, it's profitable to feed into the notion that racism is dead, or at least it was before April 2015. Today, having a grossly misinformed public is just what the doc ordered, especially when access to information is so widespread and free.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    The president is the first one to 270 electoral votes, no such thing as popular vote or majority.
    If you know that, then don't say things like "majority of america men women all genders and races voted for trump".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    if i was forced at gunpoint to vote id be living in what exactly?
    It's a $20 penalty if you don't vote :P

    Still, the fact it's illegal seems to work on the populace at large, typically about 95% turnout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    The electoral college is not the only driving force in the election, they work to represent states by population, so a president cant just ignore states.
    That's what the Senate is for.

    And they ignore HEAPS of states. Thanks to the EC system, you can safely ignore California and Texas, the two largest states, because they're practically insta-locks for the Dems and Reps respectively and if you're a Texan Democrat or Californian Republican, the WTA rule makes your vote worth zero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    You have almost 13k posts on OT and I don't recognize the name.
    It's stressing me out :O
    Well I've been here a while.

    Shrug. Personally I can't remember more than like 10 forum names off the top of my head.
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  11. #51
    Partly, the right likes to divide by it's nature and then complain when you point that out.

    Obama campaigned in 2008 based on unity (this is why he got the nobel price), the only thing he got in return was old fashion racism in return

    Trump campaigned based on fear of Jews, African-American, Mexicans, Muslims, Chinese

  12. #52
    No but the media helps proliferate extremism like fans to the fire. It also pushes centrists either right or left from dissociation.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    if i was forced at gunpoint to vote id be living in what exactly?
    what if you got a free burrito/burger/pizza coupon for voting?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Every media outlet cries that America is so divided. That it's left and right. Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

    But is that really true? What if America had 30 options for President on the ballot of all varying degrees on the political spectrum. Wouldn't we just see a proportionally segregated vote as well?

    So it's not that everyone is so divided, it's that we are all forced to define ourselves in the embodiment of 2 political parties.


    As a person who sees a ton of nuance in the positions of most Americans including myself, my only choices are this or that.

    What that does is force me into 1 camp vs the other. I might be extremely conflicted about who I support, and just by slight edge I decided for one or the other. The moment I do that, all of the other intricacies of my position become irrelevant. I'm either Trump or Clinton. R or D.

    This shouldn't be acceptable. We should be able to have a complex position. We should be able to have a wide variety of choices for President.

    What if the 2016 national election had Sanders, Trump, Clinton, Rubio, etc etc all available for us to choose?



    We are "divided" by design. Our system gives us no room for nuance. We have to pick red or blue. This is fucking stupid shit.
    agree 100%

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  15. #55
    Trump and Killery are pretty much the same person. Bernie was really the only anomaly.

    And america isn't divided at all, it's just social media that makes it seem as such. There is no increase in violence or hate, just the access to it.
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  16. #56
    America IS divided and your first-past-the-post, winner-take-all system does not leave much space for fine tuning.

    (Not that we are doing much better, but some countries do, and hey, you asked.)

  17. #57
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Every media outlet cries that America is so divided. That it's left and right. Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

    But is that really true? What if America had 30 options for President on the ballot of all varying degrees on the political spectrum. Wouldn't we just see a proportionally segregated vote as well?

    So it's not that everyone is so divided, it's that we are all forced to define ourselves in the embodiment of 2 political parties.


    As a person who sees a ton of nuance in the positions of most Americans including myself, my only choices are this or that.

    What that does is force me into 1 camp vs the other. I might be extremely conflicted about who I support, and just by slight edge I decided for one or the other. The moment I do that, all of the other intricacies of my position become irrelevant. I'm either Trump or Clinton. R or D.

    This shouldn't be acceptable. We should be able to have a complex position. We should be able to have a wide variety of choices for President.

    What if the 2016 national election had Sanders, Trump, Clinton, Rubio, etc etc all available for us to choose?



    We are "divided" by design. Our system gives us no room for nuance. We have to pick red or blue. This is fucking stupid shit.
    We are divided. But it is just human nature for people to have different views and to fight for their beliefs.

    I mean, look at any thread on these forums, and you can see the natural division at play.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    We are divided. But it is just human nature for people to have different views and to fight for their beliefs.

    I mean, look at any thread on these forums, and you can see the natural division at play.
    That's not really what I was trying to say. Right now it's depicted as Blue on one side and Red on the other, and 1 large deep chasm in between.

    When if we were to truly depict the divides, it would be more complex with a bunch of different perspectives with smaller cracks in between.

  19. #59
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    That's not really what I was trying to say. Right now it's depicted as Blue on one side and Red on the other, and 1 large deep chasm in between.

    When if we were to truly depict the divides, it would be more complex with a bunch of different perspectives with smaller cracks in between.
    You are right there. But since we are set up with only two viable sides to choose from, all the branches end up bound together in two bundles.
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