7.1.5 ep/ap viability?

[Nekroman]

Will ep/ap still be the go to single target build next week?

[Deleted]

mp/ap and probably vigor over DP, but we wont know for sure until the final patch notes are revealed

[Azone]

This is just from my personal experience. On the PTR I am dummy target testing some really great numbers as EP/AP with Vigor. I'm using the exact same gear as my live character. The rotation changed slightly due to the rupture changes, but allows for 95 - 100% EP buff uptime. I believe MP will surpass EP eventually with more mastery. If I didn't have to sacrifice so much crit and agility to achieve an adequate mastery level for MP - I'd probably be sticking with it. But for now I think I'll give EP/AP paired with Vigor a go.

[Deleted]

how do u use envenom with vigor? 4 cp enough or go for 5?

[Zhea]

Currently MP is ~10k dps more on my sims. I have about 140% mastery. I'll be going with that barring any changes

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how do u use envenom with vigor? 4 cp enough or go for 5?

I'd say 4 is okay to keep SoT up.

[Nekroman]

Replace ep with sot/env i get that. Im already doing it for kb or whenever else i can get away with it so should be an easy transition. Why vigor though?

[Deleted]

cause dp is getting nerfed from 10% to 5%, and u dont need the 6th cp anyway cause rupture is getting changed ( no matter with how much cp u rupture its always the same dmg per tick) so u can do it with 5, and u dont finish envenom with 6 anyway. so u have 5% more finisher dmg vs 50 energy (170 energy overall that will refill every time u use vendetta) & 10% energy reg, so vigor is a little bit ahead

[Grusalugg]

Don't forget that numbers for stat gains is increased. With the same gear, your secondary stat percentages will be slightly lower when the patch goes live I think.

[Deleted]

Don't forget that numbers for stat gains is increased. With the same gear, your secondary stat percentages will be slightly lower when the patch goes live I think.

slightly xD

The gain of your secondary stats decreases by 10%. Furthermore you will loose flat 5% crit. EP drops only from 15 to 12, its still an multiplicative buff (MP is more like additive if you play AP). As long as you dont have a very high amount of mastery (esp after the sec stat nerf) MP is still weaker than ep. 3% isnt a big deal (at current state you need at least 150% mastery to be on par with EP), the performance of MP isnt affected by the patch, so i have no idea where the unbelievable dps increase of MP is coming from.

Rupture isnt the spell to focus anymore, envenom will be the key ability for our dps in the future (with 4 set pieces). Envenom still profits a lot of deeper stratagem (not only by the 5% but also for the additional damage of the 6th cp, especially with the set bonus (its all multiplicative), not like rupture). Vigor is useful as long as you are not able to hold a high buff/debuff uptime (SoT/Envenvom) and you didnt have the 4p set bonus.

[Kalador]

yeah AP will probably be the strongest build, if blizzard don't surprise nerf MA relics, we could see a build with 3X MA leg boots and elisande trinket being completly broken with almost 80-100% uptime on vandetta, it would be insane on patchwerk type fight but would suffer from target switching, we will see (probably will requier you to play outlaw on some fight).

i hope they nerf MA relics, they force a very niche build and prevent any talent switching and adaptability. I also have 10x more fun playing exsang witch will sucks because of this shit...

p.s blizzard seems okay with this build tho as there is 2 MA relics in Nighthold 1 in ToV and 1 875 in kara so....

[Deleted]

The vendetta trinket seems not that useful currently.

[Kalador]

The vendetta trinket seems not that useful currently.

idk it also have a buttload of agi, its not insane reduction on vendatta but even a low amount + all that agi is probably going to make it strong. and it as good synergy with ap low vendetta cd build

[omeomorfismo]

maybe 100% vendetta uptime
with vigor, 3MA, boots and elysande trinket it doesnt reach even 66% (roughly a vendetta every ~32 sec )

btw for stable single target MP/AP is the clearly winner, for heavy swap/burst EP/EX is better

same thing about MA and gushing wound, the first for single/double target, the other for 3+

[Kalador]

maybe 100% vendetta uptime
with vigor, 3MA, boots and elysande trinket it doesnt reach even 66% (roughly a vendetta every ~32 sec )

btw for stable single target MP/AP is the clearly winner, for heavy swap/burst EP/EX is better

same thing about MA and gushing wound, the first for single/double target, the other for 3+

Principal stay the same, imo MA relics are way to valuable for sin rogue and cut what could have been a interesting choice as every thing seems to be pushing toward AP build in NH... if you rly need cd burst and/or very good cleave you are probably playing outlaw as they have 2 very strong cd that buff their ST and AoE.

[omeomorfismo]

Principal stay the same, imo MA relics are way to valuable for sin rogue and cut what could have been a interesting choice as every thing seems to be pushing toward AP build in NH... if you rly need cd burst and/or very good cleave you are probably playing outlaw as they have 2 very strong cd that buff their ST and AoE.

i dont see nh bosses in ptr, but they arent basically all multitarget?
using my char with itemization for AP, ep/ex is 20k behind mp/ap in single target, so the difference isnt so big to prefer the last case for every encounter.
for example i would pick ep/ex for an odyn-style fight in progress

then there is m+, where GW probably are the best relics.

but yes, clearly outlaw is better here, but for example i even didnt the quests for swords xD

[Kalador]

i dont see nh bosses in ptr, but they arent basically all multitarget?
using my char with itemization for AP, ep/ex is 20k behind mp/ap in single target, so the difference isnt so big to prefer the last case for every encounter.
for example i would pick ep/ex for an odyn-style fight in progress

then there is m+, where GW probably are the best relics.

but yes, clearly outlaw is better here, but for example i even didnt the quests for swords xD

Yeah most of the boss have adds or other target switching mechanics witch devaluate AP. I played Exsang all the way in EN and ToV as i think it's more fun and offer more versatility for M+ and most hard fight in En/ToV but i think it's the end of exsang. it scales slower with gear than AP and it will lose a lot of ground in NH, also with 2 MA relics in NH finding decent ilvl one will be less of a problem than before. I think the optimal combo will be to play assa AP for ST/low target switch fight and outlaw for M+ and high switch or prio target fight...

i might be bit pessimistic but I'm very sad to see every thing pushing toward AP vendetta CD reduction build as even if don't mind playing it thinks it's a very weird and ez to play (all about gear) build. Exsang is such a cool concept i hate to see it be something that will probably end up being so niche by the end of NH no one will play it (most sin rogue already play AP over Exsang).

[Deleted]

maybe 100% vendetta uptime
with vigor, 3MA, boots and elysande trinket it doesnt reach even 66% (roughly a vendetta every ~32 sec )

btw for stable single target MP/AP is the clearly winner, for heavy swap/burst EP/EX is better

same thing about MA and gushing wound, the first for single/double target, the other for 3+

I want to know why MP is going that strong. Do you have some information for me? What do I miss?

Maybe I underestimate the double dip of envenom.

[omeomorfismo]

I want to know why MP is going that strong. Do you have some information for me? What do I miss?

Maybe I underestimate the double dip of envenom.

maybe thanks the fix for kingsbane-vendetta

EDIT: simming, the biggest difference beetwen ep/ap and mp/ap is the kingsbane damage, meanwhile the lost mut,garrote and rupture damage is balanced thanks poison bomb

the difference in envenom's damage is only 2K with my actual gear

[Deleted]

maybe thanks the fix for kingsbane-vendetta

EDIT: simming, the biggest difference beetwen ep/ap and mp/ap is the kingsbane damage, meanwhile the lost mut,garrote and rupture damage is balanced thanks poison bomb

the difference in envenom's damage is only 2K with my actual gear

ah ok, didnt considered the kingsbane change. I guess poison bomb is still not affected by vendetta :>?

[skindown]

how do u use envenom with vigor? 4 cp enough or go for 5?

That's a new problem we'll face

Given we pick Vigor, we will end up wasting a few CPs, much more if we have a high crit, while if we have Anticipation, we will waste zero, BUT won't have the extra energy and regen ... dayum