7.1.5 opener and rotation

[Mcpenco1234]

Hey guys,
I am currently running 2112123.

Would that be the top ST dps build?
Also what would the opener look like since no more rop?
And how would the rotation differ from 7.1?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: i have helm and chest.

[Deleted]

AFAIK current rotation is:
ESC > Logout > Create new character > Priest > Confirm

Infracted.

[Deleted]

Hey guys,
I am currently running 2112123.

Would that be the top ST dps build?
Also what would the opener look like since no more rop?
And how would the rotation differ from 7.1?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: i have helm and chest.

No guide up, so those are updated I suggest you do what they tell you. Either way, in my opener I think:

Precasting Fireball-> MI->Drop meteor+Fireblast ->

If Fireball crit: Combustion->Pyro into the usual combo.

If Fireball does not crit: Fireblast/Phoenix->Combustion->Pyro into usual combo.

I think its quite important to make that first meteor crit, but again I might be in the wrong!

[Deleted]

AFAIK current rotation is:
ESC > Logout > Create new character > Priest > Confirm

At this point you can create any other class.

Look, I hate whining, I do, but now I just can't help myself because mages were anally violated. Sure, we weren't nerfed, heck, we even received a slight buff. But the buffs other classes received, are that much more significant, that it makes our class feel like it's been nerfed.

I just did a LFR, ya know, patch hype and all and while I was doing a decent 470k dps on ST, there were about 10 other classes doing over 600k dps on nythendra.

My initial thoughts were: "well, maybe they all outgeared me, even though I'm 7/7m 884. Nope, I had at least 5 item levels on most of them. Then I thought: "Well, fire ST has never been great, we'll see on dragons". That, was even worse, I couldn't come close to the locks' and spriests' damage, pushing 900k dps.

Ah, sorry for the tears, it's lame I know. Just a game, right?

[Deleted]

At this point you can create any other class.

Look, I hate whining, I do, but now I just can't help myself because mages were anally violated. Sure, we weren't nerfed, heck, we even received a slight buff. But the buffs other classes received, are that much more significant, that it makes our class feel like it's been nerfed.

I just did a LFR, ya know, patch hype and all and while I was doing a decent 470k dps on ST, there were about 10 other classes doing over 600k dps on nythendra.

My initial thoughts were: "well, maybe they all outgeared me, even though I'm 7/7m 884. Nope, I had at least 5 item levels on most of them. Then I thought: "Well, fire ST has never been great, we'll see on dragons". That, was even worse, I couldn't come close to the locks' and spriests' damage, pushing 900k dps.

Ah, sorry for the tears, it's lame I know. Just a game, right?

I mean, it was just a joke...

[Frostyspeed]

Precast Fireball/pyro depending on your potion (prolonged = pyro, deadly grace = fireball).
Use Mirror Image
Cast Cinderstorm and use combustion right before the cast ends (Use meteor instead if you are using that for whatever reason).
Cast Phoenix Flames (And Fire Blast if your initial precast didnt crit)
Cycle Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Phoenix Flames -> Pyroblast etc till everything is used (If you have dragons breath helm make sure to use it at the end of the combustion)

After your burst is over you use (in order of priority)
1) Dragons Breath with Helm
2) Cinderstorm/Meteor (If meteor, you should use it only once between combustions. The explanation to this is at the bottom).
3) Phoenix Flame if you have 3 stacks ONLY
4) Fireball/FireBlast/Pyro combos

you constantly cast fireball if the above top 3 priorities are unavailable. If during your fireball casts you get a heating up, you cast Fire Blast and instantly use pyroblast to chain at the end of the fireball cast. You NEVER use pyroblast without a fireball at the same time (if you want an explanation of why, message me and ill explain things in more detail.)

Repeat the above till your MI/Combustion is back and from there you repeat the opener.


Math for Meteor:
If meteor is a 45s CD and Combustion is a 120s CD. Your meteor will come up at 45s, 90s, 135s. That means if you do NOT use it on CD and only use 1 between combustions, you will sit on a meteor for (120-90)s which is 30s. If you sit on a meteor for 30s, thats essentially 66% of a meteor 'wasted'. Combustion guarantees a crit (ignite bonus from combustion will be handled down below since it makes it too complicated to do it at once). If combustion guarantees a crit, that means it doubles the damage of meteor or essentially an extra 100% of a meteor. If you are wasting 66% of a meteor by saving it, but getting 100% extra damage. However, mages already have circa 45% crit chance currently, so the odds of meteor not critting would be 55%. So essentially we can add (0.45*66) to the 66% 'wasted' meteor. 0.45*66 is 95.7% 'wasted' meteor. Only using 1 meteor between each combustion means we waste 95.7% of a meteor but we gain 100% of a meteor. Ofcourse, 100 > 95.7. Therefore I worked out that its better to save meteor than not. If you cannot fit another combustion in before the fight ends, you should use meteor on CD then ofcourse. If anyone disagrees with my math please let me know. (Sorry for the crappy lay out, wanted a more explanatory approach to the math rather than complete numbers).

Quick Edit:

Combustion gives you (0.5*YourCritRating) as extra damage on meteor in the form of ignite. Therefore if you want to be sure. Use this equation:

((YourCritInDecimal*66)+66)) vs 100+(YourMasteryIncreaseOfCombustionInDecimal*100). For example, when i press combustion i gain 10% mastery so itd be 100+0.1*100 which is 110. If the first number wins, you use meteor on CD. If the second number wins, you use meteor with combustion (other than the 1 between combustions)

For 60% crit, it'd be: (0.6*66)+66 which is 105.6. For me, 45% crit gives me 110 on the other side (since i gain 10% mastery), so if i had even more crit id get even more than 110, so even with 60% crit, you still save meteor cuz of the ignite benefit of combustion.

Tl;dr Its always best to use only 1 meteor between combustion unless you have insane crit and 0 mastery.

[Deleted]

I have the Dragon's breath Legendary.

I think I shoud go for Alexandra's Fury..instead of FO.....

yes/no... I am not sure

[Deleted]

I mean, it was just a joke...

I know, but there's truth in the statement.

[Deleted]

Precast Fireball/pyro depending on your potion (prolonged = pyro, deadly grace = fireball).
Use Mirror Image
Cast Cinderstorm and use combustion right before the cast ends (Use meteor instead if you are using that for whatever reason).
Cast Phoenix Flames (And Fire Blast if your initial precast didnt crit)
Cycle Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Phoenix Flames -> Pyroblast etc till everything is used (If you have dragons breath helm make sure to use it at the end of the combustion)

After your burst is over you use (in order of priority)
1) Dragons Breath with Helm
2) Cinderstorm/Meteor (If meteor, you should use it only once between combustions. The explanation to this is at the bottom).
3) Phoenix Flame if you have 3 stacks ONLY
4) Fireball/FireBlast/Pyro combos

you constantly cast fireball if the above top 3 priorities are unavailable. If during your fireball casts you get a heating up, you cast Fire Blast and instantly use pyroblast to chain at the end of the fireball cast. You NEVER use pyroblast without a fireball at the same time (if you want an explanation of why, message me and ill explain things in more detail.)

Repeat the above till your MI/Combustion is back and from there you repeat the opener.


Math for Meteor:
If meteor is a 45s CD and Combustion is a 120s CD. Your meteor will come up at 45s, 90s, 135s. That means if you do NOT use it on CD and only use 1 between combustions, you will sit on a meteor for (120-90)s which is 30s. If you sit on a meteor for 30s, thats essentially 66% of a meteor 'wasted'. Combustion guarantees a crit (i dont think meteor applies ignite so that mastery buff would be irrelevant). If combustion guarantees a crit, that means it doubles the damage of meteor or essentially an extra 100% of a meteor. If you are wasting 66% of a meteor by saving it, but getting 100% extra damage. However, mages already have circa 45% crit chance currently, so the odds of meteor not critting would be 55%. So essentially we can add (0.45*66) to the 66% 'wasted' meteor. 0.45*66 is 95.7% 'wasted' meteor. Only using 1 meteor between each combustion means we waste 95.7% of a meteor but we gain 100% of a meteor. Ofcourse, 100 > 95.7. Therefore I worked out that its better to save meteor than not. If you cannot fit another combustion in before the fight ends, you should use meteor on CD then ofcourse. If anyone disagrees with my math please let me know. (Sorry for the crappy lay out, wanted a more explanatory approach to the math rather than complete numbers).


I did all these sims and theorycrafting myself so it might not be perfect but im pretty confident in my results tbh

Do these meteor maths work if i got 60% crit?

[ssviolett]

I have the Dragon's breath Legendary.

I think I shoud go for Alexandra's Fury..instead of FO.....

yes/no... I am not sure

For me is has been simmed as a DPS loss. I mean even with leg helm FO > AF. You should sim yourself though. Also, AF definitely wins on multiple target fight.

[smaktat]

I have the Dragon's breath Legendary.

I think I shoud go for Alexandra's Fury..instead of FO.....

yes/no... I am not sure

With legendary = yes

[Makkish]

Precast Fireball/pyro depending on your potion (prolonged = pyro, deadly grace = fireball).
Use Mirror Image
Cast Cinderstorm and use combustion right before the cast ends (Use meteor instead if you are using that for whatever reason).
Cast Phoenix Flames (And Fire Blast if your initial precast didnt crit)
Cycle Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Phoenix Flames -> Pyroblast etc till everything is used (If you have dragons breath helm make sure to use it at the end of the combustion)

After your burst is over you use (in order of priority)
1) Dragons Breath with Helm
2) Cinderstorm/Meteor (If meteor, you should use it only once between combustions. The explanation to this is at the bottom).
3) Phoenix Flame if you have 3 stacks ONLY
4) Fireball/FireBlast/Pyro combos

you constantly cast fireball if the above top 3 priorities are unavailable. If during your fireball casts you get a heating up, you cast Fire Blast and instantly use pyroblast to chain at the end of the fireball cast. You NEVER use pyroblast without a fireball at the same time (if you want an explanation of why, message me and ill explain things in more detail.)

Repeat the above till your MI/Combustion is back and from there you repeat the opener.


Math for Meteor:
If meteor is a 45s CD and Combustion is a 120s CD. Your meteor will come up at 45s, 90s, 135s. That means if you do NOT use it on CD and only use 1 between combustions, you will sit on a meteor for (120-90)s which is 30s. If you sit on a meteor for 30s, thats essentially 66% of a meteor 'wasted'. Combustion guarantees a crit (i dont think meteor applies ignite so that mastery buff would be irrelevant). If combustion guarantees a crit, that means it doubles the damage of meteor or essentially an extra 100% of a meteor. If you are wasting 66% of a meteor by saving it, but getting 100% extra damage. However, mages already have circa 45% crit chance currently, so the odds of meteor not critting would be 55%. So essentially we can add (0.45*66) to the 66% 'wasted' meteor. 0.45*66 is 95.7% 'wasted' meteor. Only using 1 meteor between each combustion means we waste 95.7% of a meteor but we gain 100% of a meteor. Ofcourse, 100 > 95.7. Therefore I worked out that its better to save meteor than not. If you cannot fit another combustion in before the fight ends, you should use meteor on CD then ofcourse. If anyone disagrees with my math please let me know. (Sorry for the crappy lay out, wanted a more explanatory approach to the math rather than complete numbers).


I did all these sims and theorycrafting myself so it might not be perfect but im pretty confident in my results tbh

If i drop meteor and i want it to be a guaranteed crit do i cast combustion before meteor or can i cast meteor, fireball and at end of fireball press comb to get both to crit ?

[Stopshort]

At this point you can create any other class.

Look, I hate whining, I do, but now I just can't help myself because mages were anally violated. Sure, we weren't nerfed, heck, we even received a slight buff. But the buffs other classes received, are that much more significant, that it makes our class feel like it's been nerfed.

I just did a LFR, ya know, patch hype and all and while I was doing a decent 470k dps on ST, there were about 10 other classes doing over 600k dps on nythendra.

My initial thoughts were: "well, maybe they all outgeared me, even though I'm 7/7m 884. Nope, I had at least 5 item levels on most of them. Then I thought: "Well, fire ST has never been great, we'll see on dragons". That, was even worse, I couldn't come close to the locks' and spriests' damage, pushing 900k dps.

Ah, sorry for the tears, it's lame I know. Just a game, right?

Same thing happen to me, Guess i'll be on the bench come nighthold

[smaktat]

At this point you can create any other class.

Look, I hate whining, I do, but now I just can't help myself because mages were anally violated. Sure, we weren't nerfed, heck, we even received a slight buff. But the buffs other classes received, are that much more significant, that it makes our class feel like it's been nerfed.

I just did a LFR, ya know, patch hype and all and while I was doing a decent 470k dps on ST, there were about 10 other classes doing over 600k dps on nythendra.

My initial thoughts were: "well, maybe they all outgeared me, even though I'm 7/7m 884. Nope, I had at least 5 item levels on most of them. Then I thought: "Well, fire ST has never been great, we'll see on dragons". That, was even worse, I couldn't come close to the locks' and spriests' damage, pushing 900k dps.

Ah, sorry for the tears, it's lame I know. Just a game, right?

Well this is what I was worried about after doing my mythic+ last night. Feels undertuned, but a lot should change come Nighthold.

[Bombercloner]

Do these meteor maths work if i got 60% crit?

No, you should use it on CD. by his math 105.6(.6*66 + 66) > 100.

[Alvito]

If i drop meteor and i want it to be a guaranteed crit do i cast combustion before meteor or can i cast meteor, fireball and at end of fireball press comb to get both to crit ?

It doesn't hit right away so you can cast meteor then immediately combust.

[Jahrastafari]

It doesn't hit right away so you can cast meteor then immediately combust.

Why would you want to cast your highest DPET spell outside of Combustion?

[Rylalai]

Why would you want to cast your highest DPET spell outside of Combustion?

You don't? As Tyrven said. Cast Meteor -> Cast Combustion -> Meteor is affected by Combustion as long as it lands WHILE Combustion is active.

[Jahrastafari]

You don't? As Tyrven said. Cast Meteor -> Cast Combustion -> Meteor is affected by Combustion as long as it lands WHILE Combustion is active.

Awesome! Thanks!

[Morillus]

From what I've read, if you're running MI/Meteor, opener is:

Prepot Prolonged Power (works better with MI spec apparently)>Fireball (or Pyro)>MI>Meteor>Combust>FBlast (if Fireball critted, or PFlame>FBlast if it didn't) then burn phase.

Casting Meteor and then immediately Combust means the Meteor will hit after the combust and crit while not using a GCD.