Burning Legion & Magic

[Dagoth Ur]

"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world
From this seal shall arise the doom of men,
who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own.
Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit.
Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control.
Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."

This is speech from Archimonde in war3 while he's destorying Dalaran.
I know it probably means nothing now but why does he talk about fire & magic (Nobody in Dalaran uses Fel?) like Azerothians stole it from Burning Legion. Also line about kingdoms built on stolen knowledge... Is there something about Dalaran we don't know or was it just a cool speech back in the they? Is there more to Burning Legion then just destroyers of everything, genocidal maniacs etc etc...?

[CitizenWoot]

Fire Frost and Arcane magic are those of the Titan on which we live. It's possible that he's speaking expositionally, as Sargearas is the last Titan, and his Burning Legion claims ownership of the titansouls. Also, Archimonde was really pissed at Azeroth. Sargeras sent him on what should have been an easy mission, but the corrupted titanforged fought him off with stolen titan power. He's just talking shit cause he knows Sargeras is gonna whoop his ass for failing.

[Kralljin]

Kinda took this more for a like "Mortals know jackshit about magic, so i just show them how much better we are at magic."

[TheFirstOnes]

Kinda took this more for a like "Mortals know jackshit about magic, so i just show them how much better we are at magic."

*Uses sand and destroys dalaran with around 2-3% power, only to die by 25 mortals*

Idk how powerful we are, but.....ok...

[Sylreick]

Well, didn't the origins of Warlocks form in Dal, before they were ostracized for using "forbidden" magics and summoning demons?

[Kralljin]

*Uses sand and destroys dalaran with around 2-3% power, only to die by 25 mortals*

Blame his ego for not using Finger of Death until he's at 10%.

[Dagoth Ur]

Not sure about warlocks & Dalaran connection but it would be cool if somehow mages from Dalaran stole some forbidden magic from BL. But I guess this is unlikely as this speech is from war3 and devs probably forgot about it. It's cool speech though, gives Archimonde a little more personality than just yelling "I AM DEFILER" "DESTROY YOU" like in HFC.

[TheFirstOnes]

Blame his ego for not using Finger of Death until he's at 10%.

He was likely using 100% power on us, and WE STILL KILLED EM!

Am...am I a..SUPER SAIYAN! DEFEAT ME KJ! *Pulls every vegeta appearance, and either gets beat up, or dies*

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Not sure about warlocks & Dalaran connection but it would be cool if somehow mages from Dalaran stole some forbidden magic from BL. But I guess this is unlikely as this speech is from war3 and devs probably forgot about it. It's cool speech though, gives Archimonde a little more personality than just yelling "I AM DEFILER" "DESTROY YOU" like in HFC.

Ohh ehehe...buddy. That's why we had EdgeLord Hunt...I mean Demon Hunters...yeah....

[Dagoth Ur]

He was likely using 100% power on us, and WE STILL KILLED EM!

Am...am I a..SUPER SAIYAN! DEFEAT ME KJ! *Pulls every vegeta appearance, and either gets beat up, or dies*

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Ohh ehehe...buddy. That's why we had EdgeLord Hunt...I mean Demon Hunters...yeah....

How can you say that! THEY HAVE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING!!!!

[TheFirstOnes]

How can you say that! THEY HAVE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING!!!!

Well then, have they sacrificed a loot roll on a WB, or a Mythic boss, only to get gold? No? OK THEN! And Did they sacrifice the will to roll a 99 on loot, only to have a ninja get it, or a lucky 100? No? WELL THEN!

And Have DHs seen those....moonguardians, before? No? OK THEN!

Sacrificed my ass.

[ravenmoon]

"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world
From this seal shall arise the doom of men,
who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own.
Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit.
Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control.
Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."

This is speech from Archimonde in war3 while he's destorying Dalaran.
I know it probably means nothing now but why does he talk about fire & magic (Nobody in Dalaran uses Fel?) like Azerothians stole it from Burning Legion. Also line about kingdoms built on stolen knowledge... Is there something about Dalaran we don't know or was it just a cool speech back in the they? Is there more to Burning Legion then just destroyers of everything, genocidal maniacs etc etc...?

i have thought about that too, lots. I conclude the lore changed from when that was written like so many else in wow, the vision changed, and what they have done, is try to pain tthe previous lore in the light of the new change which is what the future explanations we get do. They did this with the night elves when they changed their direction. Metzen hadn't fully fleshed out what he wanted much of what we now know as lore to be. The ideas of magic are hidden, often conflicting, mixed.. too mysterious and large - remember how it was presented with the elves? in particular the night elves? was it good or was it bad? or both? if both in what way? then it split to arcane and nature, then we had fel, all part of the same force? or something different? bad good?

IT was all muddled then, i don't think it was decided, but it has since, and so what he said then is not what it would mean now, they will have to craft and explanation from the current system, which is quite possible, or we would do it for them through speculation for e.g. Archimonde is arrogant and thinks the magic originated with the Eredar - a little too simple that.. another one could be he was just referring to the fel and necromancy magic that the kirin'tor had been using like Kel'thuzzad, or even the ancient elven device - afterall there is a lot of stuff from the night elf arcane empire that is not understood by modern mages since so much knowledge was lost and they use devices from back then - maybe the source that they used for that particular one that dalaran has made use of was stuff Azshara employed from the legion

we could go on and on,

[Verdugo]

Kinda took this more for a like "Mortals know jackshit about magic, so i just show them how much better we are at magic."

Then Legion comes, and in many quests they show us how much they suck at magic.

[ravenmoon]

Then Legion comes, and in many quests they show us how much they suck at magic.

and how would they show us they are great at magic?

even the so called elves who are supposed to be the discoveries and masters of magic are shown so pathetically. Ever seen a highborne or nightborne or night elf wield magic? they're terrible and always beaten. We thought maybe that baton was left exclusively to the high elves, but we haven't seen hardly anything of high elven magic in WoW, and the blood elves looked impressive at first, but notice how silly they look, especially agianst humans and the Dalaran mages. however they do look awesome against night elves/highborne/nightborne - but those don't really look amazing as a group. only individuals like Malfurion, Illidan, Thalyssra, Azshara actually come off as amazing, the rest look like nothing

[Verdugo]

and how would they show us they are great at magic?

Maybe by not having NPCs tell us how primitive they are.

[DeicideUH]

Retcons. A lot of current lore did not exist back then. Eredar corrupted Sargeras back then, for instance.

I remember older lore mentioning, or at least implying, that the Burning Legion were after magic. Old lore (supported by the RPG, that was canon once) said very clearly thar arcane magic was corrupted and demons fed on it, which is the contrary of today's lore (arcane is order and opposed to fel). There was no World Soul, no Titan called Azeroth, no Void Lords that Sargeras opposed.

Back then, Archimonde saying we stole their fire meant we were misusing the magic they considered theirs to be taken. Nowadays, it doesn't mean anything.

[Netherspark]

"Fel magic" did not exist at the time. Demons were more associated with 'arcane' magic, although there wasn't actually much distintion between magic types, there was just magic.

For a long time, Arcane was also associated with the Twisting Nether and corrupting power.

Kinda took this more for a like "Mortals know jackshit about magic, so i just show them how much better we are at magic."

That too.

[Dagoth Ur]

Retcons. A lot of current lore did not exist back then. Eredar corrupted Sargeras back then, for instance.

I remember older lore mentioning, or at least implying, that the Burning Legion were after magic. Old lore (supported by the RPG, that was canon once) said very clearly thar arcane magic was corrupted and demons fed on it, which is the contrary of today's lore (arcane is order and opposed to fel). There was no World Soul, no Titan called Azeroth, no Void Lords that Sargeras opposed.

Back then, Archimonde saying we stole their fire meant we were misusing the magic they considered theirs to be taken. Nowadays, it doesn't mean anything.

Not saying that old lore was better or anything but when I look at clips of old Archimonde he really gave "the world is fucked" vibe much more than now in WoW. They should've written Archi to be a little more than muscle guy for Legion. Hope we get some good speeches from Sargeras & Kil'jaden at least

[ravenmoon]

Retcons. A lot of current lore did not exist back then. Eredar corrupted Sargeras back then, for instance.

I remember older lore mentioning, or at least implying, that the Burning Legion were after magic. Old lore (supported by the RPG, that was canon once) said very clearly thar arcane magic was corrupted and demons fed on it, which is the contrary of today's lore (arcane is order and opposed to fel). There was no World Soul, no Titan called Azeroth, no Void Lords that Sargeras opposed.

Back then, Archimonde saying we stole their fire meant we were misusing the magic they considered theirs to be taken. Nowadays, it doesn't mean anything.

exactly, whiles fortunately for them they never outright stated a lot of stuff, they definitely made it look like that or implied it, then changed it later on, and now it looks like some level of continuity so it works out okay.

this is why they don't go into much detail most of the time, Chris mentioned as much, saying he was still working a lot of things out.

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Not saying that old lore was better or anything but when I look at clips of old Archimonde he really gave "the world is fucked" vibe much more than now in WoW. They should've written Archi to be a little more than muscle guy for Legion. Hope we get some good speeches from Sargeras & Kil'jaden at least

i think that's cos they over used him in wow, first in the battle for mount hyjal visit, then again for WoD, and ofc he is also in the original WotA - he gets beaten a lot. a bit too much to feel ike the threat he does in WC3 when we first see him

[Traveler Voltin]

*Uses sand and destroys dalaran with around 2-3% power, only to die by 25 mortals*

Idk how powerful we are, but.....ok...

25 players (that were empowered by naaru and the draenor elements), yrel, grom, and khadgar

[DeicideUH]

Not saying that old lore was better or anything but when I look at clips of old Archimonde he really gave "the world is fucked" vibe much more than now in WoW. They should've written Archi to be a little more than muscle guy for Legion. Hope we get some good speeches from Sargeras & Kil'jaden at least

Gameplay explains it. As the game evolved from RTS to MMO, everything got more powerful and heroic. it was a lot more gritty and low-powered back then. Guys like Jaina or Thrall were powerful, but still pretty much "normal level" in power. Gul'dan died to random demons, Blackhand was backstabbed by Orgrim, Lothar died in an ambush. When the point of view changed from armies at was to heroes saving the world, everything turned gimmicky.

Once, an Infernal falling from the Sky was enough to say "we're fucked". Nowadays we kill those things by the dozen before breakfast.