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  1. #1

    [Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting

    Hey guys! Here you will be able to find a vast array of Boomkin theorycrafting from SimCraft optimisation, to potion usage and log analysis. You can navigate to all the posts through the Contents below.


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    Contents




    *please note: SimCraft is now updated to reflect the Modified APL that was originally presented in this thread. As such, I have removed the discussion on the Modified APL, and any other references to it.

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    Hey guys, been a while since I've posted a thread there. This post was mostly spurred by the current talent changes in 7.1.5, where there are some really good talent choices to be made fight-to-fight, and the current theorycrafting was lacking some hard numbers. I hope to provide some clarity on talent choices, as well as legendary choices (it's no longer a clear-cut ED/IFE for every fight besides Helya). I will be separating this analysis into five sections. Each section will provide a background to the upcoming discussion, as well as a detailed and robust examination of the topic. We will begin with an introduction to the changes Boomkins are faced with in 7.1.5, and why talent/legendary choice is important.

    All simulations have been done with my gear stats (http://www.wowprogress.com/character...rne/Slippykins) and with all legendaries replaced except in clearly-marked legendary tests. Haste has been set to 13,000 to avoid any and all breakpoint issues. All items with procs or on-use effects have been disabled (Chrono Shard).

    Also note: Force of Nature (treants) are not modelled properly in SimCraft, as this is due to their spelldata not including the hidden buffs (stat and buff inheritance). As such, the following analysis will not include Force of Nature.

    Finally, we will not be focussing on the absolute DPS in the following analysis: instead, we will report findings as significant or insignificant using the mean statistics provided by SimCraft. DPS numbers may not mimic real DPS exactly, but significant findings should retain their ordering.



    1. Introduction to Boomkin in 7.1.5

    Boomkins have received a mixture of changes with the 7.1.5 patch. Most notably, we had two legendary nerfs (ED and IFE), as well as many talents in the Level 15, 75, 90 and 100 rows getting buffed. Our single-target has not changed much, besides the nerfs to the two best-in-slot legendaries, but our cleave DPS has seen considerable improvements. We may have been known for our DoT-cleave in prior expansions, but at least for some amount of time we will be known for our cheese cleave build. You have probably heard of this build floating around, you may not know what it is, but hopefully by the end of this post you will have a clear understanding of what it does and why it works well in very specific situations.

    Overall, while there may not be extensive changes to our specialisation, we need to analyse these changes with scrutiny as there is some subtle but important talent and legendary interactions that should be taken into account.



    2. Talent Analysis

    We need to ask ourselves: what talents are we considering, and when are these talents strong? Going row by row:

    • Level 15 Tier: Warrior of Elune (WoE) vs. Starlord (SL)
      WoE provides two things: burst cleave damage and burst AP generation. SL provides consistent AP generation (through shortened SW/LS casts), as well as being integral for ED breakpoints. Additionally, SL provides no benefit when Starfall is the main AP spender, and WoE has limited benefit when DPSing 1 target. Force of Nature (FoN) is not considered in this analysis due to reasons stated above, but it can be interchanged with WoE for the most part.
    • Level 75 Tier: Soul of the Forest (SotF) vs. Incarnation (Inc) vs. Stellar Flare (StFl)
      A strong tier, and a diverse one. SotF shines when we use Starfall as an AP spender, and consequently is our go-to cleave talent. Incarnation is a well-rounded talent that shines on single-target and cleave, as it just mulitplies damage and increases AP generation. StFl has limited use: it can't be used on a ton of targets as the micromanagement of DoTs will become too involved, but it may be viable for up to 3 targets. We will examine all three talents in all scenarios.
    • Level 90 Tier: Shooting Stars (SS) vs. Blessing of the Ancients (BotA)
      A very clear decision this tier: SS is for multi-target fights, BotA is for single-target.
    • Level 100 Tier: Stellar Drift (SD) vs. Nature's Balance (NB)
      Again, multi-target (SD) against single-target (NB). We will also consider BotA/NB in the case of ED for multi-target.

    Now that we have our talents listed out, viable builds will be:

    • SL/Inc/BotA/NB -- standard single-target build.
    • SL/Inc/SS/SD -- a hybrid cleave build that takes Incarnation and SL to sustain our single-target and DoT-cleave DPS.
    • WoE/SotF/SS/SD -- our full cleave build. Investing in SotF and WoE implies that we will use Starfall as our AP spender, not Starsurge, even on single-target. NB: the Starfall vs. Starsurge for single-target will be examined in more detail below.
    • SL/StFl/BotA/NB -- a twist on our single-target build, including StFl.
    • SL/StFl/SS/SD -- another hybrid cleave build, but with StFl.

    We are now ready to begin our talent analysis on differing amounts of targets.


    Single-target



    All results were significantly different from each other except SL/Inc/SS/SD and SL/StFl/SS/SD. What do we take from these results? Nothing we already didn't know: SL/BotA/NB are all very strong single-target talents, Inc outperforms all the other talents in the Level 75 Tier, and StFl is not a completely bad choice. We will examine if this order changes with legendaries -- it could easily be the case that Oneth's Intuition bumps StFl up due to the free Starfall procs.


    Two-targets



    There are three significant tiers: WoE/SotF/SS/SD > SL/StFl/SS/SD ~ SL/Inc/SS/SD > SL/Inc/BotA/NB ~SL/StFl/Bota/NB. Clearly, we see the cheese cleave build at work: WoE and SotF is generating a lot more Starfalls, and Starfall is significantly outperforming Starsurge on two-target cleave. The SS/SD combination is also implying a) Starfall > Starsurge, and b) SS is generating a good deal of AP as well as providing good damage.


    Three-targets

    At three targets, all builds will now be using Starfall as their main AP spender, but we will continue to use SL for all builds except cheese cleave as this is more realistic (very unlikely to bring FoN or WoE to raid unless you're cheesing).



    Clear gaps form: SD >> NB, SotF > Inc > StFl, WoE > SL. Most of our damage is coming from Starfall, then from our two DoTs, then from Lunar Strike and Echoing Stars. If we examine the damage breakdown for the cheese cleave build and hybrid cleave build we can begin to see the strength of SotF:





    The inclusion of SotF makes Starfall take up a significantly larger portion of total damage (40% up to 46%), which consequently causes Echoing Stars to bump up a few spots as well (10% to 11.5%). This squishes our three other major damage sources down (Moonfire, Sunfire and Lunar Strike), but they still retain their ordering. AP generation with WoE/Incarnation is on average 8.69 AP per second, whereas we have 7.94 AP per second with WoE/SotF. This is a difference of 0.75 AP/second, or 225 AP over 5 minutes, which is ~3-4 Starfalls at 60 AP per Starfall. SotF is generating roughly 16 extra Starfalls over 5 minutes, which is a 38% increase over the use of Incarnation. Since Incarnation is a 35% damage increase that has a 20% uptime over 5 minutes, it's clear why SotF is outperforming Incarnation significantly on three-targets.


    So to summarise our talent analysis:

    1. WoE (or FoN) is worth taking once we use Starfall as our main AP spender. This occurs at two targets when taking SD, and three targets elsewhere, provided that the cleave is present for a majority of the fight.
    2. SotF significantly outperforms its counterparts at two or more targets for pure cleave fights. We will discuss what happens when you have hybrid fights (ie. fights where there are single-target components and cleave components) later on.
    3. SS is strong on two or more targets, irrelevant of other talent choice.
    4. SD is worth taking on two or more targets for cleave, and allows us to use Starfall as our AP spender on two targets.

    2a. A Quick Aside: Starsurge or Starfall?

    Let's assume you're running the cheese cleave build, SotF/SS/SD, and you find yourself in a single-target situation during the fight. Do you Starfall or Starsurge as your AP spender?



    Answer: Starsurge, especially if you have 2pc or 4pc. If you have ED, it's strongly suggested to take Starlord for weaving.



    3. Legendary Analysis

    We will now look at how our talent builds hold up with different legendaries. In order to examine these builds properly, we will need to consider talent/legendary interactions, as well as target/legendary interactions. We will therefore examine the three main legendaries: ED, IFE and OI.

    All other combinations will be similar to the non-legendary analysis explored above.

    We will explore legendary interaction in two parts: first, we will see talent/target interactions with legendaries, and then we will use the optimal talent builds to compare legendary combinations on differing amounts of targets.



    3a. Legendary Talent/Target Interaction


    Emerald Dreamcatcher

    Single-target



    We see that ED favours BotA/NB over SS/SD for single-target, no surprise here.


    Two-targets

    Is surgweaving still worth it on two target cleave? Short answer: maybe. Long answer: it depends on how long you have the two target cleave for the fight. The first DPS chart shows surgeweaving DPS and compared Inc with SotF and SS with NB, and the second DPS chart shows what happens when we ignore ED and just normal cleave with SS/SD



    We can clearly see for two-targets, Inc > SotF and SS > NB when surgeweaving.



    On two-targets, ignoring ED is preferable when you have the two targets active for 100% of the fight, but not by a lot. It's expected that for fights that exhibit some two-target cleave (mythic Ursoc is a prime example) that ED surgeweaving would still be the preferred option, and thus the first DPS chart is applicable. In this case, we would refer to the single-target chart as the more relevant comparison.


    Three-targets

    Again, we will show a comparison between following the ED surgeweaving rotation, and ignoring ED. The first DPS chart shows DPS following ED surgeweaving, and the second chart shows DPS when we ignore ED.





    Now it is a clear difference: dropping the surgeweaving from ED and just Starfalling is clearly ahead, even in a non-cheese-cleave build. This implies that fights that have a good portion of 3+ target cleave (mythic Dragons, Il'gynoth, Cenarius, Helya for example) may skew the optimal build toward the three-target cleave DPS charts. Caution is always advised, but there is definitely a clear difference between surgeweaving and not surgeweaving. The SL/Inc/SS/SD is again a good compromise build.


    Impeccable Fel Essence

    Single-target



    Our typical single-target talents prevail here, but Incarnation uptime has increased from 20% to 30% as expected.


    Two-target



    Note how high StFl is: it's getting some work done on two targets.

    Three-target



    IFE seems to be following the same pattern as ED: gravitating toward SS/SD when able to cleave, and it shows the strong interaction between IFE and Incarnation.


    Oneth's Intuition

    Single-target



    Two-target



    Three-target



    We can see from the OI charts that OI has benefitted quite well from the mastery buffs, and the scaling of Stellar Empowerment. An examination of the DPS breakdown (single-target) reveals that Starfall itself is doing upwards of 5% total damage, and this isn't factoring in the Stellar Empowerment buff to DoTs during that time. This could mean OI is almost a 10% damage increase, significantly higher than what it was pre-7.1.5.




    3b. Legendary Rankings

    We will now select the top-performing build (within reason) for each legendary in each target situation, and discuss the ordering. I will also include a "no-legendary" profile for comparison.

    Single-target



    These rankings seem correct, showing ED > IFE > OI.

    Two-target

    The cheese-cleave build is the highest simming DPS for each option at two-targets, however most two-target scenarios will not feature clumped cleave for most of the fight. If it's DoT-cleave, the single-target chart is more useful, and if there is clumped cleave with single-target aspects, the hybrid cleave build coming in at #2 is better. We will therefore use SL/Inc/SS/SD for two-targets.

    Additionally, for comparisons-sake, the ED set will use surgeweaving (swapping NB for SD). The nolegendary profile will represent ignoring surgeweaving (and therefore will take SD).



    Now it's apparent that OI is strong for cleave. The ranking here of IFE ~ OI > ED/no legendary is significant.

    Three-target

    All builds are Starfalling as AP spender, but we will modify the ED APL so that it continues to surgeweave as a comparison again. We will include the cheese-cleave build this time, as it's going to be a relevant decision for fights with 3+ target cleave.



    The ordering here is about the same as two-target: IFE ~ OI > ED/no legendary. Surgeweaving is clearly poor in the 3-target cleave situation.

    Also note that IFE and OI don't significantly affect cheese cleave damage: only a very small increase is seen from equipping either of these two legendaries.



    4. Fight Length Analysis

    We will explore just our single-target build on one target, but change fight length from 5 minutes (as above) to 4 minutes (representative of mythic Guarm on a progression kill) and 3 minutes (representative of most farm kills).

    The 5 minute chart can be seen above.

    4 minute fight



    3 minute fight



    Of note is that IFE is king for short fights where it can get that extra Incarnation in. ED and OI jump up in DPS from 3 minutes to 4 minutes because they get their second round of Incarnation during that time, whereas IFE is still working on the cooldown to the third.

    What to take from this: IFE is worth more when fights are shorter. Fight length is an important indicator for how well a legendary will perform.



    5. Summary

    So how do we use these rankings for meaningful decisions in-game?

    We will extrapolate from the data and make some simplifications. Let's say there are three categories of fights: pure single-target, single-target with cleave, and single-target with DoT-cleave.

    For pure single-target, the single-target DPS charts are already applicable. The Default APL models these situations quite well, and is a good estimation of what happens in-game.

    For single-target with cleave, we mix our single-target charts with our cleave charts. If the fight ends up being 10% cleave and 90% single-target, then it's likely we will just follow the single-target chart or possibly take the hybrid cleave build. If the fight is 50% single-target and 50% cleave, then maybe the hybrid build is the best option, or it's possible the cheese-cleave build can shine.

    For single-target with DoT-cleave, it's very likely we will just stick with single-target talents and swap in SS. In this scenario, the Starfall/Starsurge decision mimics single-target.

    Additionally, it seems that our legendary DPS ordering has shifted quite a bit. ED is good for one and two target cleave fights, and surgeweaving is definitely still a thing. However, now that we have access to Starfall-centric builds, ED falls behind when we can benefit from cleave DPS on even as little as two targets. It's likely that if you need a cleave build, IFE/OI is a strong combination. If you're looking for single-target on a long fight, ED/IFE is going to be your guy. If you want to make use of small amounts of cleave during a fight, OI will be a very strong pick combined with SD.

    Overall Strong Builds:

    • SL/Inc/BotA/NB for straight single-target
    • SL/Inc/SS/SD for single-target with some mixed cleave (10% of fight or more is probably sufficient)
    • SL/Inc/SS/NB for single-target and DoT-cleave (same condition as above, but for spread targets)
    • SL/StFl/SS/SD for two-target DoT-cleave, sort of like Dragons when they're separated
    • WoE/SotF/SS/SD for fights like Helya (you need adds that are spread enough to avoid burst AoE from your guildies, but close enough for Starfall to hit all of them. You also need a lot of adds.)


    Thanks guys for reading. If you would like to clarify anything in this post, chuck a comment down below. Otherwise, I hope this post was enjoyable to read and helped you to discover the cool intricacies of Boomkins in 7.1.5.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2017-05-06 at 06:48 AM.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  2. #2
    It's also worth noting Stellar Drift allows you to cast while moving as long as you remain in Starfall's radius. During the single target portion of an encounter Starfall may be worth using over Starsurge if there is high movement.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Taalyn View Post
    It's also worth noting Stellar Drift allows you to cast while moving as long as you remain in Starfall's radius. During the single target portion of an encounter Starfall may be worth using over Starsurge if there is high movement.
    Good point -- it's another reason why Stellar Drift is great during Volcanic week!
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  4. #4
    Thanks Slippy, that's really awesome work.

    I'm really hopeful we can see FoN because there's every reason to expect it to surpass WoE. In terms of pure average single target dps gain when you napkin math it, for example, Starlord surpasses WoE when you're casting as few as something like 5 empowered wraths and 4 empowered Lunar strikes in 45 seconds. In other words, it vastly surpasses it (as your sims confirm). But from playing around a bit on dummies and in encounters FoN seems to me not too far off of Starlord (at least for those of us without ED).

    It's probably also wise to hold off on recommendations for the first tier until we properly understand the value of FoN.

    Can I ask why you recommend Stellar Flare for two target cleave? SotF looks better.

    I do tend to think myself that Stellar Flare needs more of a buff than it got to compete with SotF and Inc. The fact that it doesn't even win 2 target cleave seems to confirm that.
    Last edited by thedeisel; 2017-01-13 at 03:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by thedeisel View Post
    Thanks Slippy, that's really awesome work.

    I'm really hopeful we can see FoN because there's every reason to expect it to surpass WoE. In terms of pure average single target dps gain when you napkin math it, for example, Starlord surpasses WoE when you're casting as few as something like 5 empowered wraths and 4 empowered Lunar strikes in 45 seconds. In other words, it vastly surpasses it (as your sims confirm). But from playing around a bit on dummies and in encounters FoN seems to me not too far off of Starlord (at least for those of us without ED).

    It's probably also wise to hold off on recommendations for the first tier until we properly understand the value of FoN.

    Can I ask why you recommend Stellar Flare for two target cleave? SotF looks better.

    I do tend to think myself that Stellar Flare needs more of a buff than it got to compete with SotF and Inc. The fact that it doesn't even win 2 target cleave seems to confirm that.
    The Stellar Flare build was just a suggestion that it could be viably used in two-target dot-cleave -- unfortunately it falls short in single-target and any more than three target dot-cleave. It's not particularly strong, and it's not applicable in a normal two-target fight with cleave (as opposed to dot-cleave). I'll add the dot-cleave clarification into the post.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  6. #6
    Nice job man. Really helpful to have some numbers to compare build choices going into Nighthold. I was just wondering if you have considered modeling the new Lady and the Child legendary for the "cheese-cleave" build. With a large amount of damage coming from moonfire the 20% bonus and saved globals could be a decent increase. What are your thoughts?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by eladr View Post
    Nice job man. Really helpful to have some numbers to compare build choices going into Nighthold. I was just wondering if you have considered modeling the new Lady and the Child legendary for the "cheese-cleave" build. With a large amount of damage coming from moonfire the 20% bonus and saved globals could be a decent increase. What are your thoughts?
    I think the Lady and the Child legendary is definitely nice for DoT-cleave and even normal cleave, but in terms of modelling it will model very similarly to a no-legendary build. It doesn't interact with talents at all (besides making Stellar Empowerment from Starfalling stronger, but Stellar Drift doesn't even buff that damage), and it's really unlikely to save any more than 1 GCD every ~24 seconds when not running NB.

    It's not a bad legendary, but if you have it I would just refer to the standard builds as they will be functionally identical.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  8. #8
    Is there a way to edit the default APL to use your new one instead of copying it for every import?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Myztikrice View Post
    Is there a way to edit the default APL to use your new one instead of copying it for every import?
    Unfortunately I think you need to copy the modified APL in every time, or just paste your character's gear over from a new import.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  10. #10
    Thanks a lot! Appreciate it!

  11. #11
    I tried simming myself with the APL you provided, and it resulted in 404931 DPS. With the default APL, I sim for 497521 DPS which is for sure more correct. Have I done something wrong?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mbjgaming View Post
    I tried simming myself with the APL you provided, and it resulted in 404931 DPS. With the default APL, I sim for 497521 DPS which is for sure more correct. Have I done something wrong?
    Possibly! What is your character name/realm and what settings did you have ticked for the sim?
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  13. #13
    Gorgôn - Defias Brotherhood (EU)

    Enabled scaling, intellect and secondary stats, Patchwerk, 300s/360s/450s (cant remember, but not really important). Basically the settings shown in this video at 2:55 time.

  14. #14
    So I have Impeccable Fel Essence AND Oneth's Intuition.. I guess I have been very lucky even thou I don't have the Dreamcather. Is SL/Inc/SS/SD the best overall build for me with those legendaries?
    Profile is EU - Funkeren - Silvermoon

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mbjgaming View Post
    Gorgôn - Defias Brotherhood (EU)

    Enabled scaling, intellect and secondary stats, Patchwerk, 300s/360s/450s (cant remember, but not really important). Basically the settings shown in this video at 2:55 time.


    So the problem was that in the APL you get when you import your character, you get a little line of code that says "/use_item,slot=trinket1" that my Modified APL doesn't have (because there are no on-use trinkets in the simmed set). So to fix it, just add the line of code back in.



    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusFunk View Post
    So I have Impeccable Fel Essence AND Oneth's Intuition.. I guess I have been very lucky even thou I don't have the Dreamcather. Is SL/Inc/SS/SD the best overall build for me with those legendaries?
    Profile is EU - Funkeren - Silvermoon
    SL/Inc/SS/SD is going to be a very strong build for you, it may not beat the cheese cleave build though. I would suggest run SL/Inc/SS/SD and see how it goes.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2017-01-14 at 11:12 AM.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire
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    Very nice post.

    So I got some questions that are probably important to answer for boomkins here, but which I do not have the time to figure out myself (only playing casual these days).

    1) Do talent/rotation priorities (especially with ED) change when the tier set gets involved on 2+ targets?
    2) Do the stat priorities change with the memebuild? And if so, to what and is there a way to combine with with ST stat priorities?
    3) Do relic priorities change?

  17. #17
    Thanks for the answer, I'm trying out the cleave build with Woe/SoTf/SS/SD and it seems to work out great, I finished an MAW +9 in under 10 min with it and topped the aoe burst in several pulls...

  18. #18
    just a fucking huge thanks

    One small question what is your ED rotation during the BL at the start of a boss (assuming you have haste cape)

  19. #19
    I have one more question! I have 2 bis legendaries, but is Sephuz Secret better in some situations than say Impeccable Fel Essence with the cheese cleave build? 25% haste seems like ALOT. In raids, the bis ring is better I presume, but for mythi+ is Sephuz better?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Very nice post.

    So I got some questions that are probably important to answer for boomkins here, but which I do not have the time to figure out myself (only playing casual these days).

    1) Do talent/rotation priorities (especially with ED) change when the tier set gets involved on 2+ targets?
    2) Do the stat priorities change with the memebuild? And if so, to what and is there a way to combine with with ST stat priorities?
    3) Do relic priorities change?
    1) Tier is definitely going to favour ST talents (SL, Inc in particular), but not that much. We're going to be using Starsurge as the AP spender in 99% of situations, so the tier set will typically always be relevant. SL and Inc favour Starsurge use over their opponents, but switching to SS/SD wont change much.

    2) The cheese cleave build will favour haste and mastery the most -- you can always sim your character with those talents selected on a 2 or 3 target fight to get your individual stat weights. But definitely haste/mastery, same as with ST.

    3) Definitely -- the Starsurge relic is our best ST relic (especially with the 4-set bonus). However, it's not very good for AoE. I can see people taking a mixture of relics, but the SW/LS relics will remain where they are. I can see the Starfall relic going up slightly, but it doesn't provide that much of a bonus to be honest. Moonfire/Sunfire is already favoured for AoE situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunrise View Post
    just a fucking huge thanks

    One small question what is your ED rotation during the BL at the start of a boss (assuming you have haste cape)
    After you sim your character, if you go to the Action Priority List tab and then scroll down to "Sample Sequence Table" you can see what a typical simulation is doing for ED during Bloodlust. I believe it is well-optimised, and will do some SS -> SW -> LS -> SS weaving, as well as the SS -> SW -> SW -> SS weave with lower haste.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2017-01-14 at 12:18 PM.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

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