[Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting (7.2.5+)

[Slippykins]

Yo Slippy! Really nice work in this thread!

Say i wanna piss my raid leader off, and go totally cheese/padding on a hc night just for ranks. Could mastery pass haste in some cases? Simming my gear on Amr i sim higher changing to pure masterygems. What would a pure woe/Sof/SS/SD for 4 targets stat priority generally look like?

Not entirely sure, but I can check for you tomorrow when I get home from NZ. My gut tells me there's no necessary reason haste will stay above mastery, but either way is possible.

- - - Updated - - -

Upcoming posts in the next couple of days (before reset): potion usage, basic log analysis. Also, I'll PM Vexxe to change the thread title to Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting because there's more info here than just the original idea. I'll also restructure the OP to reflect that.

[Darmal]

Any thoughts on optimal relics, in light of the variety of encounters in NH?

[Slippykins]

Under Construction!

[Madus]

Funny how STFL is still crap after 6? years...
They could atleast make it viable in pvp as dispel protection, since it looks like they dont wanna it in pve anyway.

[Slippykins]

Funny how STFL is still crap after 6? years...
They could atleast make it viable in pvp as dispel protection, since it looks like they dont wanna it in pve anyway.

Yeah Stellar Flare is still a really disappointing talent -- unfortunately the 7.1.5 changes weren't enough to make it better than the two powerhouse talents on that row (Inc, SotF). It's unlikely StFl will have any other changes until next expac.

[wing5wong]

Did deadly grace not have some limitations on number of targets?
I was under the impression that additional targets increased the value of prolonged power.

[Slippykins]

Did deadly grace not have some limitations on number of targets?
I was under the impression that additional targets increased the value of prolonged power.

As far as I know, Deadly Grace is a flat amount of SP% that has a chance to activate for any damaging event, so it'll scale with targets from the extra DoT ticks and Starfall hits. Have there been any in-game tests to confirm or deny that? Either way, it'll be good to look into it further.

[Deleted]

As far as I know, Deadly Grace is a flat amount of SP% that has a chance to activate for any damaging event, so it'll scale with targets from the extra DoT ticks and Starfall hits. Have there been any in-game tests to confirm or deny that? Either way, it'll be good to look into it further.

DG is RPPM (20), that does X dmg (1600-2400 I believe) every proc. It scales with Int, vers, crit, haste (more procs), and any damage modifiers (CA/INC, and moonkin form 10%, since it is arcane damage). It does not scale with mastery, multiple targets (as we will still have the same number of procs), or player skill (unless you literally don't hit any buttons). Because it is unaffected by player skill, it is possible to calculate the dps benefit with relatively high accuracy. This is the spreadsheet I have been using for comparison, showing the calculations of DG DPS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

PoPP is basically a damage multiplier of 2500/INT. It scales with everything except INT, including player skill and multiple targets. If we already know how much damage we will do in the 60 second window, it is easy to find the benefit of PoPP: DMG * 2500/INT = PoPP_DMG

[Slippykins]

DG is RPPM (20), that does X dmg (1600-2400 I believe) every proc. It scales with Int, vers, crit, haste (more procs), and any damage modifiers (CA/INC, and moonkin form 10%, since it is arcane damage). It does not scale with mastery, multiple targets (as we will still have the same number of procs), or player skill (unless you literally don't hit any buttons). Because it is unaffected by player skill, it is possible to calculate the dps benefit with relatively high accuracy. This is the spreadsheet I have been using for comparison, showing the calculations of DG DPS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

PoPP is basically a damage multiplier of 2500/INT. It scales with everything except INT, including player skill and multiple targets. If we already know how much damage we will do in the 60 second window, it is easy to find the benefit of PoPP: DMG * 2500/INT = PoPP_DMG

Yeah that's definitely consistent with what Shrom was saying. In that case, the above discussion would be applicable for ST, and would need a revised version for cleave. I'll update the post to reflect that change.

And that's a good spreadsheet, would definitely be worth to look at breakpoints between DG and PP dependent on number of targets or uptime.

I'll have another think and revise the potion post in light of non-target scaling for DG.

[Nerxyrall]

Not sure if thats something you are interested in looking into :
I have metronom(900) and whisphers (915 -> lucky bastard). And i get lower than the gcd especially with solar wrath(with starlord) quite a lot.
With the temp castspeed/haste buffs in NH (Elisandre, anomaly(,Heroism)) this gets a real problem.
Since this are our bis trinkets i think a lot of players will have the same problems.

My thoughts on the topic are generally :
Every cast (outside of unempowered solar wrath) is generally more beneficial than unempowered lunar strike, so your rotation doesnt change really.
You will cast emp. Lunar Strike > emp. Solar Wrath and unemp. Lunar Strike > unemp. Solar Wrath, but outside of that it shouldnt change.
You sometimes dont get the full benefit of your trinkets(/talents) but empowernments/starsurge/starfall are just to much more SP to ignore just to get full benefit.

I hope i made myself clear.
If thats not something you are intersted in or it isnt a problem thats easily simmed etc, maybe someone else wants to share his thoughts. (Gebuz for example but dont want to double post)

[Slippykins]

Not sure if thats something you are interested in looking into :
I have metronom(900) and whisphers (915 -> lucky bastard). And i get lower than the gcd especially with solar wrath(with starlord) quite a lot.
With the temp castspeed/haste buffs in NH (Elisandre, anomaly(,Heroism)) this gets a real problem.
Since this are our bis trinkets i think a lot of players will have the same problems.

My thoughts on the topic are generally :
Every cast (outside of unempowered solar wrath) is generally more beneficial than unempowered lunar strike, so your rotation doesnt change really.
You will cast emp. Lunar Strike > emp. Solar Wrath and unemp. Lunar Strike > unemp. Solar Wrath, but outside of that it shouldnt change.
You sometimes dont get the full benefit of your trinkets(/talents) but empowernments/starsurge/starfall are just to much more SP to ignore just to get full benefit.

I hope i made myself clear.
If thats not something you are intersted in or it isnt a problem thats easily simmed etc, maybe someone else wants to share his thoughts. (Gebuz for example but dont want to double post)

So basically, once you reach 87% haste, the DPET of LS > DPET of SW, so in pure DPS terms you want to spam LS in this case. At about 78% haste, the AP gen of LS beats the AP gen of SW. This is for empowered casts only.

If you find yourself in a situation where SW is hitting the GCD, you just use up the SW empowerments and then spam LS, which is exactly what you said. You can always make a weakaura to track your total current haste% including the Whispers modifier (or you can pester Cyous to!).

[Nerxyrall]

So basically, once you reach 87% haste, the DPET of LS > DPET of SW, so in pure DPS terms you want to spam LS in this case. At about 78% haste, the AP gen of LS beats the AP gen of SW. This is for empowered casts only.

If you find yourself in a situation where SW is hitting the GCD, you just use up the SW empowerments and then spam LS, which is exactly what you said. You can always make a weakaura to track your total current haste% including the Whispers modifier (or you can pester Cyous to!).

Thanks for the reply. Wouldnt even know how to begin such a WA. When i have time i will go into the druid discord and see if anybody has something like that.
Especially people with ED will want/need something like that too...so there might be allready something available.

[Myztikrice]

This one (https://wago.io/N1KclHjo-) will display your current haste level and what spell to use based on the breakpoint table, but it doesn't incorporate Whispers.

[Nerxyrall]

This one (https://wago.io/N1KclHjo-) will display your current haste level and what spell to use based on the breakpoint table, but it doesn't incorporate Whispers.

Since i dont have ED, the wa isnt exactly what i am locking for. And integrated whispers would be important, too.
Thanks for the post thought. If i ever get ED i will look at it again.

[Myztikrice]

You can modify it slightly, it's pretty straightforward. There's a WA master group with subgroups for each breakpoint. Each WA checks whether your haste is within a certain ranges and displays an icon for what spell to use, you can just change that haste window. I don't know what they are for Whispers though.

[Deleted]

I have a weak aura that displays haste % on screen, if you add me startlord#2143 , I will give it you

(will incorporate whispers)

I forgot that you could be NA so will update this when I'm on my computer

[Myztikrice]

The weak aura I linked will do that if that's all you want.

[Snakaso]

This one (https://wago.io/N1KclHjo-) will display your current haste level and what spell to use based on the breakpoint table, but it doesn't incorporate Whispers.

Since you brought it up, is there anyone who has a weak aura like this (for ED specifically) that does incorporate Whispers?

[Slippykins]

I find it's better to muscle-memory what spell to cast under the most common haste scenarios: {nothing, hero, hero+inc, hero+whispers, hero+whispers+inc}. In most cases, whispers and/or hero will enable SW+LS weaving, both hero and whispers will enable LS×2, and all three major haste buffs will cause the GCD to cap at 0.75 so you can weave three spells between starsurges if you queue up spells exactly (0.75*4=3). If you experience lag between casts then stick to LS×2.

[Slippykins]

Alright, today's post will be on relics for single-target and multi-target fights. There's been a lot of discussion lately about what the best relics for Nighthold are, and this has been brought on for two reasons: there is a lot of AoE in Nighthold, and none of the Nighthold bosses drop Sunfire, Moonfire or Starsurge relics.

This post will examine the relic rankings for single-target and multi-target, as well as showing the synergies with the most common legendaries (OI, ED and IFE).

The excel spreadsheet used for calculations can be found here: clicky

1. Relic Ranking for Single-Target

Build used for these tests was SL/Inc/BotA/NB. Stats are as provided in the spreadsheet. 2pc/4pc is enabled.

Clipped from the excel sheet:



Associated puu.sh links:

No legendaries


ED


IFE


OI


Discussion: Nothing has really changed for ST, except that Scythe of the Stars has become even better with the introduction of 4pc. ED shows strong synergy with SotS, IFE has weak synergy, and OI has anti-synergy. ED and IFE make sense, as they both capitalise somewhat from the strength of Starsurge during their active periods, but OI having anti-synergy may require an explanation. The anti-synergy is likely due to the GCDs lost from using the free Starfall, which in turn lowers AP generation and hence reduces total Starsurges in the fight.

2. Relic Ranking for Multi-Target

Build used for these tests was SL/SotF/SS/SD. Stats are as provided in the spreadsheet. 2pc/4pc is enabled. Targets is set to 3.

Clipped from the excel sheet:



Associated puu.sh links:

No legendaries


IFE


OI


Discussion: Quite a large difference from the single-target analysis. All relics have been "squished" down, and now ilevel increases are the most relevant upgrade (staying at a steady ~1% DPS increase for 3 ilvls across single- and multi-target sims). The Sunfire and Moonfire relics have also shot up to around 0.8% DPS per relic, and it's likely that this percentage will increase as more targets are added. Interestingly enough, the Sunfire and Moonfire relics at 3 targets still do not provide the same amount of DPS as the Starsurge relic on single-target (with ED), showing how overbudgeted Scythe of the Stars really is.

3. Summary

Overall, the only "relic" upgrade that is consistently good in both single- and multi-target situations is ilevel. Thus, when it comes down to it, 3 ilvls on your Artifact weapon (10 ilvl relic upgrade) will likely beat anything else you have stuck in your weapon currently. SotS is extremely overbudgeted with ED and 4pc for ST, and you can get some massive benefit out of it from most of the fights where there are extended single-target portions (Chrono, Trilliax, Tich, Krosus, Star Augur, Elisande, Gul'dan), so it's likely that SotS will continue to see a lot of play. Next best relics are the Moonfire and Sunfire relics, which scale well with number of targets, but do poorly on single-target. Unfortunately, neither are offered in Nighthold, as with SotS. Solar Wrath and Lunar Strike relics are better than Moonfire/Sunfire relics for ST, but the SW relic is irrelevant for multi-target most of the time, and LS has a significantly reduced benefit. Empowerment and Falling Star are both pretty crap, unfortunately.

tl;dr relic suggestions: Scythe of the Stars (Starsurge), Twilight Glows (Moonfire), Sunfire Burns (Sunfire).