7.1.5 mm is dragon soul mm (except worse)

**Feanoro** · 2017-01-21, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by plekz

sunwell's ''difficulty'' is wildedly exagerated for a few reasons, number one being m'uru, which wasn't so much a ''hard'' fight as it was a return to form to the retarded 'design flaws' that you saw in naxxramas 40-man with 4 horsemen. ie that it was forced classstacking out the ass. it was also an extremely uneven fight in terms of 'dynamic' you had a period of 6+ minutes where you stood and guarded a fucking doorway that every (x) seconds a pack would spawn and run towards you, meanwhile a tank kited another add that spawned in the midpart of the room.

I know how the fight went; I killed it pre-nerf. It didn't force class-stacking like Four Horsemen even by your description far below; so far this reads like quoting all the "I heard this but wasn't there" material I've seen over and over since Cata.

recruitment during the tier was further complicated due to the fact that progress was still going on in the middle of summer, and to make matters worse it was a year where you had international tournaments in football going on aswell.

Which has zip to do with boss design.

outside of m'uru though, the bosses weren't really all that complicated or hard

Sure, when you went in with Wrath talents or at 80.

which is reflected in how fast each boss died after each of the gates opened in there.

As opposed to now, when raids are NOT cleared damn near same day as release by the top 10 while usually not remotely outgearing it. Oh wait, that does happen and blows this point out of the water.

another thing to consider is that tons of guilds were weakened significantly when the race for sunwell began, due simply to the fact that alot of people had quit during the extreme time period that passed between black temple and sunwell being released.

i mean, you had top 10 ranked guilds that shut their doors completly and left the game even in that time period. praemium callidus for instance on magtheridon eu.

The point here appears to be "Things seem harder for less-skilled players." You know, it's just too easy to point out how that applies to the supposed difficulty increase now. Would you also like to deny Blizzard directly saying they would never make a Sunwell difficult raid again?

sartharion 3d is a poor example

Because reasons. Wait, let me guess, how dare a fight require more than two tanks taunt-swapping and trying to stay awake. Fewer boss abilities because fewer ways to counter them.

as for ulduar, for people with little raiding experience prior it would probably seem like everest, but again for seasoned guilds the only fights that are really talked about there are mimiron and freya.

Because back then, it was at expected difficulty for a middle tier. I could point out you forgot Yogg 0.

you didn't really have the complexity that you have today, in how fight mechanics can interact with eachother

You mean like Mythic Archie, where a WeakAura could beat the most dangerous mechanics of two phases and the rest was a laughably predictable if annoying pattern? Maybe Xhul, where the majority of the dps could bounce between two spots while two or three ranged handled the chains? The fact that most mechanics can be handed off to a few people doesn't exactly support the idea of dramatic difficulty increases.

I could also point out the overall design shift when they went to multiple difficulties. There's more FUs because of infinite heals and (albeit fewer post-pruning) anti-fuckup abilities, mainly because you've likely memorized $LowerDifficulty before beating $HigherDifficulty.

and no, naxx 40 wasn't some ''amazing raid'' really, it had a few good ideas, but plenty of downright awful fights

There were a few that were crap, yes. The overall raid was the hardest that had been seen at that time.

the myth of it's difficulty is further enhanced by the fact that you needed a minimum of six (preferably eight) warriors with 4 pieces of dreadnaught for 4 horsemen tore countless guilds apart as guilds higher up on the foodchain poached tanks left-right & center to compensate for one of the dumbest fucking design ideas iv'e ever seen in a game in my 35+ years on this earth.

Funny how this is the sole complaint that's ever expressed in any detail about Naxx.

If it makes you feel better, at no point did I say anything like "raiders today aren't as good as the old days" which seems to be what people are taking away. All I've said is numerically fewer abilities back then for both players and encounters. Just like people conflate button count with complexity, they also conflate ability count with complexity.

Deleted · 2017-01-21, 06:17 PM