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  1. #21
    when you say "don't delay, spam it". Are you referring to the mutilate>envenom spam, pushing to get in as many critical hits from envenom as possible?

  2. #22
    Try to get Gul'dan's trinket and sky is the limit with the synergy

  3. #23
    Deleted
    whats the best time to use the guldan trinket in the opener with mantle ?

  4. #24
    I would assume after your vanish. One thing of note, if you choose subterfuge over nightstalker, you actually get 9 seconds of the crit buff when using vanish. From opener of the fight it's 6 seconds.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    With Agonizing Poison:

    Garrote -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Fan of Knives -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> ..

    It is a really well calculated opener and works so nicely. You do not waste energy, vendetta uptime nor MAI uptime.
    This is a fucking beautifull opener man.

    Takes a few pulls to get down, but it makes total sense once it gets in. Nothing wasted, super deeps.

  6. #26
    @Umbrex

    I managed to figure out a far superior opener (which involves legendary shoulders and guldan trinket) but for certain reason cannot share with it, yet.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    @Umbrex

    I managed to figure out a far superior opener (which involves legendary shoulders and guldan trinket) but for certain reason cannot share with it, yet.
    I do have a theory on how tha would play out does the trinket benefit from vendetta??

    Sadly i dont have it yet

  8. #28
    In the class discord I saw this rotation posted:

    *Talented into Subterfuge*
    Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture > Mutilate > Vendetta > Envenom > Kingsbane > Mutilate > Envenom (Delay ~2 sec here) Vanish / Mutilate > Garrote > Envenom > Mutilate

    Here's a visual breakdown of the opener:
    http://i.imgur.com/iRejc5B.png

    The main benefit is that you're pushing the tail end of Kingsbane into the 2nd mantle buff window.

    Credit to wEak in the Rogue Discord.
    -Insert witty signature here-

  9. #29
    This opener is good enough to get rank1 on Krosus. I tell you this not to bragg, but to try to grab your attention, because there is so much misinformation about Rogue opener all around on the internet it makes me feel sad.



    This is viable ONLY IF you have both shoulders and guldan's trinket. This is based only on feelcraft and personal experience after hundreds of wipes since 7.1.5 and several training dummy tests.

    I believe this could be slightly improved, but this is almost final version of the best rogue opener with shoulders and guldan trinket.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    This opener is good enough to get rank1 on Krosus. I tell you this not to bragg, but to try to grab your attention, because there is so much misinformation about Rogue opener all around on the internet it makes me feel sad.



    This is viable ONLY IF you have both shoulders and guldan's trinket. This is based only on feelcraft and personal experience after hundreds of wipes since 7.1.5 and several training dummy tests.

    I believe this could be slightly improved, but this is almost final version of the best rogue opener with shoulders and guldan trinket.
    you should use it after your first vanish in your pull rotation. 1. be sure your ap poison is fully stacked 2. be sure kingsbane is up, because you get 13 melee hits within 3 secs which are able to procc ap poison, what can boost your kingsbane a lot 3. use it after an envenom because of #2

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    This opener is good enough to get rank1 on Krosus. I tell you this not to bragg, but to try to grab your attention, because there is so much misinformation about Rogue opener all around on the internet it makes me feel sad.

    This is viable ONLY IF you have both shoulders and guldan's trinket. This is based only on feelcraft and personal experience after hundreds of wipes since 7.1.5 and several training dummy tests.

    I believe this could be slightly improved, but this is almost final version of the best rogue opener with shoulders and guldan trinket.
    This is a bit confusing. You use Vanish + Rupture, so I assume you have Nighstalker? But then the 100% crit buff falls off after 6 seconds, meaning it misses half of your Fel-Crazed Rage, your 4CP Envenom, and your Mut+Kingsbane at 8.5s. With the low levels of crit Assa Rogues are running, that means you likely have only 3 or 4CP, but then you follow up with a Vanish+Rupture after?

    Also, the initial Kingsbane hit is one of your hardest-hitting abilities, but you use it outside the 100% Crit window and before Vendetta, which just doesn't seem right.

    Unless I'm missing something, if you got rank 1 on Krosus with this it likely has more to do with Poison Bomb and BotA procs than the actual opener.
    Last edited by Won7on; 2017-01-31 at 05:22 AM.
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Won7on View Post
    This is a bit confusing. You use Vanish + Rupture, so I assume you have Nighstalker? But then the 100% crit buff falls off after 6 seconds, meaning it misses half of your Fel-Crazed Rage, your 4CP Envenom, and your Mut+Kingsbane at 8.5s. With the low levels of crit Assa Rogues are running, that means you likely have only 3 or 4CP, but then you follow up with a Vanish+Rupture after?

    Also, the initial Kingsbane hit is one of your hardest-hitting abilities, but you use it outside the 100% Crit window and before Vendetta, which just doesn't seem right.

    Unless I'm missing something, if you got rank 1 on Krosus with this it likely more to do with Poison Bomb and BotA procs than the actual opener.
    Your not missing anything the rank was 100% genergal RNG and had nothing to do with his opener.
    My rogue RIP 2004-2019
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    No they don’t learn and evidence suggests that. Behavior also doesn’t change and if there is any hope of learning behavior has to change.

    Not meaningless declarations easy to say after he regrets offering up evidence he’s a racist.

  13. #33
    RIP Insane KB damage on the opener with shoulders.
    -Insert witty signature here-

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Generical View Post
    RIP Insane KB damage on the opener with shoulders.
    yea, it will drop from up to 10.46mil(was the highest recorded for me at pull) to max ~5mil.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Hi, I've lurked here for a while. I got Draught of Souls last night and am also using the shoulders, attempting to find a solid opener. So far the best results seem to have been:

    Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Mut (Arcane Torrent) > Vanish/Rupture > Vendetta/ KB > Envenom > Draught of Souls

    Dunno if this is optimal, but the logic behind it is to make the most of a full pandemic night stalker rupture and of course fit a full draught in with the crit buff.

    I'd really appreciate any suggestions anyone has to improve this opener, pretty new to rogue and info seems sketchy thanks to all the variables introduced by possible legendary combos!!

  16. #36
    Deleted
    You could just open with garrote +mutilate+ rupture+ draught, thats most of the crit buff timer, then do normal thing.

  17. #37
    Draught benefits from Vendetta, and maybe from Surge of Toxins (to be tested, I currently try to use it when the debuff is up on my target).

    It's definitely better to use it after your 2nd Vanish when you have 5AP + Vendetta + SoT on your target.
    Signatures in 2018 LUL

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kortiah View Post
    Draught benefits from Vendetta
    any proof for that ? i get the same dmg out of draught no matter if with or without vendetta .....

  19. #39
    easy to test.

    1: go to target dummy, hit your trinket
    2: wait for cooldown, hit vendetta, hit trinket. Was the damage higher or the same. There you go. mystery solved.

  20. #40
    Edit: Nevermind, Garrote does indeed snap shot.

    Also, I seem to see a new version of the opener everyday. I currently have Shoulders and Belt,

    Rogue is my alt and its only like 880, and would generally like to know the most optimal opener.

    Any decisive answer on the best opener?
    Last edited by Spryte; 2017-02-03 at 09:30 PM.

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